Has buying a Tesla changed your mind about Climate Change?

[ggies07]

I suggest reading this 5 part series

Exxon's Own Research Confirmed Fossil Fuels' Role in Global Warming Decades Ago (Internal memos from the company in here)

And then read even more facts here:

CO2's Role in Global Warming Has Been on the Oil Industry's Radar Since the 1960s

-Atmospheric CO2 will double in 100 years if fossil fuels grow at 1.4%/ a2.

-3oC global average temperature rise and 10oC at poles if CO2 doubles.

-Major shifts in rainfall/agriculture

-Polar ice may melt"

and then lots of interesting facts dating back to the 40s/50s here:

Smoke & Fumes

In 1957
In its quest for ever more accurate "clocks" to measure the age of ancient (and potentially oil-bearing) sediments, the oil industry was quick to exploit the highly precise "carbon clock" created by radiocarbon dating with carbon-14. This paper, published by the Humble Oil Production Research Division (now ExxonMobil), catalogs a list of carbon dating samples. All living organisms have a certain percentage of radioactive carbon that decays over time, and measuring the ratio of radioactive to stable carbon is used to date fossils, soil samples, and more. Because fossil fuels are made from ancient organic material, it contains a very small amount of radioactive carbon. Burning fossil fuels "dilutes" the radioactive carbon in the atmosphere, and measuring that dilution is one way to measure how much of atmospheric carbon dioxide is from fossil sources. The "dilution" of carbon-14 naturally occuring in the atmosphere by depleted carbon-12 from fossil fuels—termed the "Suess effect" for its discoverer Hans Suess—made it possible, for the first time, to measure with precision the contribution of fossil fuels to atmospheric CO2.

But this thread should be moved here, because there has been a thread on this for years already:

Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

 

[Drivin]

Climate what? Never heard of it.

Technology and performance. The polar bears are on their own.....

I never understood why climate change people are so pro-polar bear or pro-seals when they talk about the benefits.

The average grey seal eats about 50 pounds of food a day! If we had enough just climate change to wipe them out, that is a lot more seafood for everyone else! And don't even get me started on supporting killer whales. Geez, the have the name "killer" in their description.

 

[Drivin]

I suggest reading this 5 part series

And then read even more facts here:

and then lots of interesting facts dating back to the 40s/50s he

And where is the research that proves that we are at the optimal climate today and that any change is necessarily bad?

 

[Zapped]

But this thread should be moved here, because there has been a thread on this for years already:

Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

Nope, everyone on this thread would get roasted..... I've been there. Have to be very careful what you say on that thread... IMHO

Why did I buy a TESLA ? Performance, style, unique driving experience, cheap on fuel AND no pollution ( ak stinky exhaust that kills )

 

[jeffro01]

This is the core problem, there isn't anything to change your mind on, this isn't an opinion based situation. I still can't wrap my head around this idea that it's okay to be skeptical of climate change. Climate change\global warming is real, it's absolutely caused by humans burning fossil fuels, and it's absolutely not open for debate, discussion, doubt, gut feelings, who do you trust, etc... This isn't debated science, it's no longer allowable to have an opinion on it, this is fact.

Those of you who can sit there and openly admit your skeptical on this need a serious reality check. What exactly do you need to see, feel, experience, etc... before you'll stop questioning there is a problem and start questioning how best to address it?

It's absolutely absurd that we're still having this conversation in 2016, absolutely absurd. I keep using the word absolutely to emphasize the reality that this is no longer a question in the scientific community. The only remaining question, if you will, is how the increase in greenhouse gasses will affect the climate in the short and long term. If you want to be skeptical about anything, it should be the short and long term impacts. To be skeptical about the idea of climate change, or that humans aren't directly responsible for it, is absolutely absurd.

Jeff

 

[ggies07]

And where is the research that proves that we are at the optimal climate today and that any change is necessarily bad?

The Science

Since the beginning of human civilization, our atmosphere contained about 275 ppm of carbon dioxide. That is the planet “on which civilization developed and to which life on earth is adapted.”

And did you just skirt around the issue? I suggest you go read the internal memos from Exxon on this subject. It's not coming from some hippie, it's straight from the horses mouth.

 

[xlpro]

Nope. Still skeptical. Bought my Tesla for the performance and technology

^^^same for me too^^^
I have flown electric model helicopters/planes/jets for many years, we use lipos for our powerful electric motors. Same charging techniques for li-ion as lipos, anyway quiet performance and cool tech makes the car very compelling!
Love it and it's really addictive

 

[erthquake]

And where is the research that proves that we are at the optimal climate today and that any change is necessarily bad?

The primary issue is rate of change. Atmospheric CO2 concentrations are rising faster than at any time in earth's history. Organisms will have a lot of trouble adapting to their rapidly changing environment.

 

[182RG]

To be skeptical about the idea of climate change, or that humans aren't directly responsible for it, is absolutely absurd.

Not skeptical. I believe the facts and the science. I just don't care about CC. Not one iota. To me, it's a math problem for a future generation.

 

[theschnell]

I think humans are probably contributing to climate change, but have not delved into the research myself. What I can't understand is why there isn't more of a push to get off of oil to reduce global demand for a product that is funding terrorists and totalitarian governments? Yes I realize we are producing most / all of our own oil now in the U.S (or at least we were before the price crash) but we are nonetheless contributing massively to the demand of a fungible product that funds terrorism. It would seem we would want to reduce that demand. Sorry to go off topic...

 

[AB4EJ]

I haven't yet been able to figure out why people are "skeptical" about climate change. The data is clear that the climate is changing. I'm afraid that the reason people doubt it is because of who talked about it, not the facts themselves. (Sad.) I guess the most egregious thing I have heard so far is the claim that scientists are manufacturing these conclusions to "get those grants." I can tell you, as staff at a major university, faking research results is one of the few ways you can get fired from a tenured position.

Still, the question is really whether climate change is human-caused. We can see the close correlation between CO2 and warming trends. We know that correlation is not causation; but it could be. Climatologists (who specialize in this) say that this correlation is based on causation. I have enough training in science to believe them.

So did I get a Tesla for combating climate change? Heck, no! It was the first time I found a car better than a Mercedes.

 

[RedP85+]

This is a very interesting post. If you listen closely to Elon, he is very careful to avoid the Climate Change debate. He just calls it the dumbest experiment that man has ever tried. The reason is exactly evident in this thread. For every for argument there is a a counter. That is why Elon's solution is so clever. He understands that in the end it is all about our pocket book (deny it if you want to but I have seen it in everything from Made in USA vs Made in China to almost everything we buy). So he has designed the best car ever, period. The fact that it is zero emissions is great but as we can see from the thread it's not the only reason everyone is buying them.

The reality is that we will run out of fossil fuels and if we wait until it gets scarce, economically it will be very costly.

Once Elon gets the cost of the batteries to $100 KWh ICE cars will make little sense.

Finally whether you believe in GW or CC or not, this a path off fossil fuels we can all agree on. Cheaper, better, faster, cooler and functional solutions to sustainable energy.

 

[Petra]

Climate change\global warming is real, it's absolutely caused by humans burning fossil fuels, and it's absolutely not open for debate, discussion, doubt, gut feelings, who do you trust, etc... This isn't debated science, it's no longer allowable to have an opinion on it, this is fact.

Jeff, while I don't disagree that the majority of the research I have read indicates that we're in a period of accelerated climatic change and that there's strong evidence to support an anthropogenic component to said change, I have to call you out on this statement as it undermines the very foundations of science and does a disservice to those trying to promote scientific understanding among the general populace--soften the language or nobody will listen or really think about what you have to say... also, the dogmatic absolutist approach just gives more ammunition to the Ken Hams of the world who wish to confuse people by conflating science with religion. Besides, why press the issue by pounding on people with polarizing absolutes? You can accomplish the same goal by rallying people behind ending the problems associated with localized combustion-related pollution (people are generally agreeable on this matter, at least). "Pollution bad! Make you sick!" "Ugh! Let's stop Pollution!" *bam* Oxocarbon emissions drop by extension.

A gross oversimplification, yes, but it gets the point across... no?

 

[willcasp]

I bought the Tesla because I was impressed with the performance, and liked it better than other cars in its class.
I have since become more of a student climate science and social policy.
I have seen enough data to believe that things are going in the wrong direction. I think moving consumers to more fuel efficient transport is a good thing. I also think that encouraging the purchase of more Tesla's is a good thing. It makes the case for folks with means to pitch in and create a market that will build more infrastructure to support electric cars. I am also convinced that we will see the tipping point at the end of this year / beginning of next with the new Bolt. That range, at that price point will make a compelling argument against ICE cars for the typical consumer. Power infrastructure will make it more practical. Reading studies on the impact of running busses on electric in dense population areas on local environments convinces me that acting on a local level is a good thing, and effective.

 

[deonb]

I still can't wrap my head around this idea that it's okay to be skeptical of climate change. Climate change\global warming is real, it's absolutely caused by humans burning fossil fuels, and it's absolutely not open for debate, discussion, doubt, gut feelings, who do you trust, etc... This isn't debated science, it's no longer allowable to have an opinion on it, this is fact.

There is nothing in the world that's quite as settled as you describe, and I don't know of a single scientist that will support a viewpoint of "you're no longer allowed to have an opinion on something - just accept it as fact".

But hey, if you want that, can we then also then shut down discussion by the anti-vac, holistic medicine, anti-GMO, nuclear-alarmist croud? Because those guys bug me as much as the anti-climate-change guys.

Or maybe we just allow people to say any stupid thing they want and learn to live with it.

 

[brucet999]

I ask this because I am kinda coming over to the CC side in the last few months. !

Even if you are unconvinced that global warming is all or mostly caused by burning fossil fuels, no sensible person can deny that there must be some contribution, so reducing your carbon footprint while driving a wonderful car makes sense. And even a total denier must realize that driving electric is slowing the depletion of non-renewable petroleum resources.

 

[Odebek]

I agree that the naming of the issue "climate change" is unfortunate. The real issues are rising sea levels, and excess CO2 in the oceans and atmosphere. I think the evidence that the rise of CO2 levels is caused by man is indisputable, and that there is overwhelming evidence that the elevated CO2 will have significant long term detrimental effects to life on the planet.

Unfortunately, there is currently no technology to scrub this out of the atmosphere and oceans, our only hope is to dramatically reduce our carbon output and invest in nano technology or biological CO2 scrubbers. I am buying a Tesla to reduce my personal impact on CO2 levels.

Frankly, I don't care if Musk/Gore/Obama/Clinton or Trump/Limbaugh/Ryan/Exxon make money off of clean energy technology, just trying to make sure we don't turn over an ecological disaster to our children that will ruin the world economy and their quality of life.

 

[Eclectic]

I won't get into the exchange of slurs, but calling people "deniers" is not a good way to encourage open debate.

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

Using that same silly argument, one wouldn't want to be in a room filled with 9 supermodels because of all the CO2 they give off (9 supermodels=same CO2 as burning 1 gallon of gas. I don't know how long a car would run idling on one gallon of gas, but that is probably longer than I can entertain 9 supermodels).

And never mind getting physical with several of them since that would accelerate the amount of CO2 production.

Your claims are nothing short of comical. The average human exhales about 2.3 lbs of CO2 in an ENTIRE day. Per AAA, a car on idle burns about a gallon of gas every hour. A gallon of gas releases over 20lbs of CO2. So in the time your idling car released 20 lbs of CO2, your 9 pretty little supermodels only exhaled 0.8625 lbs of CO2. When's the last time you heard of anyone dying in the little scenario you described above? It just doesn't happen. And yet how many people commit suicide every year by turning on their cars in their garages.

Next time, please think before making such a silly arguement.

 

[S'toon]

Your claims are nothing short of comical. The average human exhales about 2.3 lbs of CO2 in an ENTIRE day. Per AAA, a car on idle burns about a gallon of gas every hour. A gallon of gas releases over 20lbs of CO2. So in the time your idling car released 20 lbs of CO2, your 9 pretty little supermodels only exhaled 0.8625 lbs of CO2. When's the last time you heard of anyone dying in the little scenario you described above? It just doesn't happen. And yet how many people commit suicide every year by turning on their cars in their garages.

Next time, please think before making such a silly arguement.

Does breathing contribute to CO2 buildup in the atmosphere?

TL : DR

By breathing out, we are simply returning to the air the same CO2 that was there to begin with.