dhrivnak
Active Member
No you can’t. Or at least mortals can not get batteries for that price let alone an inverter as well. Most of the US cannot get a PowerWall at any price.
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Green Hydrogen
- Thread starter mspohr
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- hydrogen renewable energy
MontyFloyd
Member
As many have posted, H2 uses expensive and complex equipment to work, and not usable round the clock.
I do have an idea where it can be very useful:
Hospitals
Roof top and nearby PV is used to power electrolyzers.
The O2 gathered will be used for patients, the H2 can be used for electric generators at night (fuel cell or ICE). Extra can be used for H2 emergency vehicles.
This will be made where it is used, and ability to insure reliable supply of O2 (some hospitals have run out of O2 for Covid patients)
Hospitals are interesting. A lot of the inefficiency of electrolysis is that you throw away the O2. Hospitals could certainly use this.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
It sounds good until you run the numbers. A person needing oxygen consumes ~1kg per minute. While you get ~4kg of Oxygen for every 1kg of Hydrogen you need >40kWh of energy to get that 4kg of Oxygen. So you'd need >15kW of solar panel to provide sufficient oxygen for a single patient. Most medial oxygen is produced from separating O2 from air not from splitting water.
1 liter of O2 weighs 1.43 gm.
O2 by mask is given at 1 to 10 liters/min.
O2 by ventilator is about 12 liters/min.
... math ...
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
What's 'gm'? I got 1.14kg per L. Ah... but that's liquid. Need to convert it to L gas at 1 atm.
1L of O2 at 1atm is 1.43 grams? Ok... not as bad as I thought
So you'd really just need 15w not 15kW of solar. FAR more viable.Hospitals also have appropriately robust grid interconnects to make them both potentially good virtual and real power plants - to not only come to the aid of ill humans, but also the grid.
MontyFloyd
Member
And what does surplus matter?
Come a pandemic, its good to have massive reserve.
O2 is also consumed where it is produced.
Concentrators being mechanical probably not have lifespan of non-moving electrolyzers.
and elec consumed for splitting is not as bad.
Not perfect, but does seem to be a good win-win.
Hydrogen Is As Broadly Useful As Hemp, And Will Be Used Just As Much - CleanTechnica
All of the people shouting from the rooftops about the wonders of hydrogen are just as wrong as all of the people shouting about the wonders of hemp.
cleantechnica.com
Hydrogen Heating & Cooking Would Cost Homeowners $100,000+ Extra Over 15 Years - CleanTechnica
The economics of hydrogen in the home are crystal clear, so you really have to ask yourself who is trying to sell this absurd idea. And why.
cleantechnica.com
I worked at a refinery and I ran 2 different hydrogen producing plants, and do you realize how much energy it takes to produce hydrogen. It takes a very large amount of heat and catalyst to separate the hydrogen molecules from what ever feed you are feeding. But I like the idea of hydrogen as a fuel.
Bringing down the cost of electrolysis is a key effort for green hydrogen.
reneweconomy.com.au
Australian electrolyser breakthrough promises world’s cheapest green hydrogen
University of Wollongong spin-off says electrolyser technology breakthrough will deliver renewable hydrogen for less cost than fossil fuels within years.
reneweconomy.com.au
L.A. needs clean energy. Hydrogen could be the answer — or gas industry greenwashing
That’s a nonstarter for climate advocates. They point to research finding that replacing gas appliances with electric heat pumps and induction stoves is a far more effective climate strategy, and can also reduce indoor air pollution from cooking with gas.
But electrification threatens the gas utility business model, which is why SoCalGas and other companies have fought government policies requiring new homes to be all-electric. A similar battle played out at the ports of L.A. and Long Beach, where an industry trade group whose members include SoCalGas lobbied officials to prioritize biofuels over electric trucks to clean up air pollution.
Garcetti has a similar concern. He’s skeptical about using hydrogen for home heating and cooking, saying the city should be “careful to guard against people throwing in a little bit of supposed green hydrogen to greenwash gases that are destroying the planet.
That’s a nonstarter for climate advocates. They point to research finding that replacing gas appliances with electric heat pumps and induction stoves is a far more effective climate strategy, and can also reduce indoor air pollution from cooking with gas.
But electrification threatens the gas utility business model, which is why SoCalGas and other companies have fought government policies requiring new homes to be all-electric. A similar battle played out at the ports of L.A. and Long Beach, where an industry trade group whose members include SoCalGas lobbied officials to prioritize biofuels over electric trucks to clean up air pollution.
Garcetti has a similar concern. He’s skeptical about using hydrogen for home heating and cooking, saying the city should be “careful to guard against people throwing in a little bit of supposed green hydrogen to greenwash gases that are destroying the planet.
You Get A Green Hydrogen Hub! And You Get A Green Hydrogen Hub!
With $8 billion in federal funding on the line, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Massachusetts cook up a new green hydrogen hub scheme.
cleantechnica.com
Experts say blending hydrogen into gas pipelines won't work
Utilities want to extend their infrastructure's useful life. But the evidence suggests the risks and costs far outweigh the negligible emissions-reduction impact.
Hydrogen is a very different molecule from methane, which makes up the majority of fossil gas. It’s composed of the smallest molecule in existence, which makes it more difficult to contain in pipelines, increasing the risk of leaks. It’s also known to weaken the strength of steel used for large-scale gas pipelines, and it can be ignited far more easily than methane can. All of this means that any widespread use of hydrogen would have to be accompanied by lengthy and costly safety studies, and it could require major retrofits and replacements of existing pipelines or entirely new appliances.
But trying to use it as a substitute for natural gas to heat buildings, or even to fuel power plants, could be a pipe dream that wastes precious time and money that would be better directed to more realistic and cost-effective options to reduce carbon.
These drawbacks make hydrogen a far less effective decarbonization option than replacing gas-fired heaters, stoves and other appliances with all-electric models, said Energy Innovation policy analyst Hadley Tallackson. “Just sending that renewable electricity through the grid” is far more efficient than using it to make hydrogen, she said.
Hydrogen Is Worse for the Environment Than CO2, a New Study Finds
In case you are not aware, hydrogen as a source of energy has become controversial. It is promoted as a clean replacement for fossil fuels, without greenhouse gases at the tailpipe. Even so, producing and storing hydrogen is energy-consuming, questioning its potential as a green solution. A new...
www.autoevolution.com
In case you are not aware, hydrogen as a source of energy has become controversial. It is promoted as a clean replacement for fossil fuels, without greenhouse gases at the tailpipe. Even so, producing and storing hydrogen is energy-consuming, questioning its potential as a green solution. A new study shows that hydrogen has another big problem, as it becomes itself a greenhouse gas when released into the atmosphere. Long term, it might be 11 times worse than CO2 for the climate.
I think there are more important reasons to control hydrogen leaks ...Hydrogen Is Worse for the Environment Than CO2, a New Study Finds
In case you are not aware, hydrogen as a source of energy has become controversial. It is promoted as a clean replacement for fossil fuels, without greenhouse gases at the tailpipe. Even so, producing and storing hydrogen is energy-consuming, questioning its potential as a green solution. A new...
In case you are not aware, hydrogen as a source of energy has become controversial. It is promoted as a clean replacement for fossil fuels, without greenhouse gases at the tailpipe. Even so, producing and storing hydrogen is energy-consuming, questioning its potential as a green solution. A new study shows that hydrogen has another big problem, as it becomes itself a greenhouse gas when released into the atmosphere. Long term, it might be 11 times worse than CO2 for the climate.
Lots of good reasons to control H2 leaks but just like methane, it leaks everywhere all the time (made worse since it is such a small molecule).
Brando
Active Member
Hydrogen, the second-tiniest of all atoms, can penetrate right into the crystal structure of a solid metal.
That’s good news for efforts to store hydrogen fuel safely within the metal itself, but it’s bad news for structures such as the pressure vessels in nuclear plants, where hydrogen uptake eventually makes the vessel’s metal walls more brittle, which can lead to failure. But this embrittlement process is difficult to observe because hydrogen atoms diffuse very fast, even inside the solid metal.
Observing hydrogen’s effects in metal
A method developed at MIT allows observation of metal during hydrogen penetration, which could help in developing new hydrogen storage methods and in preventing hydrogen embrittlement of metals.
news.mit.edu
