Fukuta supply role to Tesla

[Causalien]

If what you are implying is true Avenger. Then that means the motor that is crucial for Model S and X is an outsourced part and basically shipped disassembled to USA to be able to be branded made in USA.

Which is great, it means that other manufacturers should have no problem replicating a pure battery EV by contacting Fukuta. Why hasn't it happened yet?

As an investor who invested for the vision of EV. The more the merrier.

So what does this mean? That the other auto manufacturers are just incompetent. Can't even copy a car in 2 years.

 

[Chickenlittle]

is there a way to make this thread disappear ?

 

[S'toon]

I can't figure out what Avenger's fixation with Fukata is, what we're supposed to be alarmed about.

 

[Avenger]

Motors for mirrors, retracting door handles, power windows, sunroof, auto-opening doors and falcon wing actuators. Tons of motors in the cars unrelated to the drivetrain. Also, do you understand exactly what a servo is?

dha,
AC induction motors (AC as in alternating current....not DC or Direct current) are not used for auxiliary devices because those small motors are always DC (Tesla Battery provides DC power).

Yes. Fukuta as a AC Induction servo motor....this gives the car tremendous traction control.

 

[stopcrazypp]

First link is components again. As for the 2nd, do you really think that any motor near 1,283 kg would go into a car? That's more than half the curb weight of a Model S. You do know that they are still building out production facilities, right?

I decided to actually look at the Fukuta catalog for AC induction servo motors to see how they look like:

http://www.fukuta-motor.com.tw/en/products_sub_F02.html
http://catalog.prm-catalog.com/?ID=376&co=2738&lang=en

Here's a list of 1000+kg motors from their catalog:
SBA-225X
SA-280 (all variants)
SA-225X

So they do sell such large motors and obviously they are not to be used inside a car.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

dha,
AC induction motors (AC as in alternating current....not DC or Direct current) are not used for auxiliary devices because those small motors are always DC (Tesla Battery provides DC power).

Yes. Fukuta as a AC Induction servo motor....this gives the car tremendous traction control.

No. Servo motors (both DC and AC) are for position control. They have feedback circuitry that is used to provide that position data so that the motor can be run backwards and forwards over the same positions repeatedly ... like windows and wiper blades. Not saying that the AC Induction Servo Motors that you've listed are actually used for that purpose, only that they are NOT used for traction motors. Using servo motors for traction motors is a huge waste of a motor, since you'd be paying for something you don't need/use.

Also, from Fukuta's product site: FUKUTA ELEC. & MACH. CO, LTD.

Notice that Fukuta lists "AC Induction Motor" and "AC Induction Servo Motor" separately? Do you not see that all the AC Induction Motor series produced by Fukuta actually has some vague physical resemblence to Tesla's traction motor. While all their AC Induction Servo Motors look NOTHING like Tesla's traction motor?


I did you the favor of checking Fukuta's entire lineup of AC Induction Motors. Their standard type series, IE2 series, and GB3 series of motors all max out at 270 HP (peak RPM of ONLY 1775!!), while their IE3 series maxes out at 175 HP. Their Aluminum Frame Motor series maxes out at 10 HP. NONE of them would work for even the base model S 70, as that has a rating of 259 HP and peak RPM of 17,000.


So if you're going to convince us that Fukuta makes the entire traction motor for Tesla, you'll have to find something else as proof. The AC Induction Servo Motors are NOT it. AND none of Fukuta's existing AC Induction Motor products would fit the bill either.

If you're thinking that maybe it's a tesla designed motor that Fukuta is simply contract manufacturing, that's why it's not listed for sale? Well then how is this a bad thing for Tesla? Apple uses Foxconn and Samsung for all their devices.

 

[WarpedOne]

Just a bit off topic trivia:
ALL electric motors are really AC motors. Every electric motor needs alternating current that produces alternating magnetic fields that cause rotation.

DC motors would be better called Motors-with-built-in-Mechanical-Inverter (comutator is a mechanical inverter).
AC motors come without such built-in inverter so they need 'outside' inverters that are usually implemented as electronic devices.
Being electronic they can be more precise and better control current inversions.

 

[mwulff]

is there a way to make this thread disappear ?

Come on I come to this thread for my daily dose of denial and despair. Somehow Avengers disconnected reality makes my own reality seem that much more appealing

 

[Avenger]

Here is Fukuta profile from Alibaba Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

 

[JRP3]

Here is Fukuta profile from Alibaba Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum
View attachment 106010

Yes, notice how they list "Electric Vehicle/boat Motor" separately from the "Servo Motors", and notice the Electric Vehicle motor pictured is an air cooled motor, and looks nothing like the Tesla motor? Did you catch any of that?
Also from their Alibaba page:

The motor manufacturing division is set up in 1988 and the products includes “standard motor”, ”inverter motor”, “servo motor” and “spindle motor”. All the models are exported to all over the world for the variable customers to use.

http://tw1014145113.fm.alibaba.com/product/141012970-0/Electric_Vehicle_Boat_Motor.html

 

[Avenger]

We agree to disagree.... Happy New Year!

 

[ecarfan]

Over two months since this thread has started and nothing has changed.
I have to ask why any of you keep engaging with this person. He is wrong based on the facts, we all know it, the rest of the world knows it, let it go...

 

[Causalien]

Over two months since this thread has started and nothing has changed.
I have to ask why any of you keep engaging with this person. He is wrong based on the facts, we all know it, the rest of the world knows it, let it go...

I figured it's a fund manager with no engineering background picking our brain to do his research by pretending to be a troll. There are no other short to pounce on right now so everyone's here.

 

[ggr]

We agree to disagree.... Happy New Year!

I don't!

 

[JRP3]

We agree to disagree.... Happy New Year!

No, we agree that you are completely wrong, proven by your own "evidence".

Over two months since this thread has started and nothing has changed.
I have to ask why any of you keep engaging with this person. He is wrong based on the facts, we all know it, the rest of the world knows it, let it go...

As posted previously, some of us find it entertaining. I enjoy his tenacity in the face of facts.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I enjoy his tenacity in the face of facts.

First time I've seen "willful ignorance" spelled that way

 

[Avenger]

So why is Fukuta ... a motor manufacturer shipping tons of motors and complete motor parts to Tesla... month in and month out... ;-)

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

So why is Fukuta ... a motor manufacturer shipping tons of motors and complete motor parts to Tesla... month in and month out... ;-)

This was answered countless times. Repeating your question/claim without replying to the answers provided to you would indicate that you're trolling.

 

[stopcrazypp]

View attachment 106021
So why is Fukuta ... a motor manufacturer shipping tons of motors and complete motor parts to Tesla... month in and month out... ;-)

I rarely repeat my posts when ignored, but I'll give this one last try.

The "AC induction servo motor" is 1283 kg each:
http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/...ery-co-ltd-tesla-motors-inc/yasvnltpe0038682/

This is what those 1000+kg Fukuta AC induction servo motors look like:

http://www.fukuta-motor.com.tw/en/products_sub_F02.html
http://catalog.prm-catalog.com/?ID=376&co=2738&lang=en

Here's a list of 1000+kg motors from their catalog:
SBA-225X
SA-280 (all variants)
SA-225X

It is very obvious they are not the ones Tesla is using inside their car and if you look at the catalog, they are designed to be used in manufacturing lines where precise positioning is required. In context, this would be Tesla's production line.

For the Motor Parts:
http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/...ery-co-ltd-tesla-motors-inc/yasvnltpe0044459/
Let's use some simple math: 46380 kg gross weight (this would include pallets, and all packaging). 2640 pcs.
46380kg/2640pcs = 17.6 kg = 39 lbs per piece (including pallets, and individual packaging).

Tesla says a Roadster motor weighs 115 lbs. These are very obviously not complete assembled traction motors, but likely what they are declared as: motor parts.

I'll put this in clear terms: If you can't address any of those points and continue to ignore them, I will presume I have the last word and you are completely wrong.

 

[sub]

I can't figure out what Avenger's fixation with Fukata is, what we're supposed to be alarmed about.

He has found the one thread that is going to unravel Tesla therefore making millions on his TSLA short.....or not. It's entertaining to see his delusion in action. Why he can't see that even if he was right it doesn't matter, comes off as a bit racist to me as if Asian companies are incompetent.