Fukuta supply role to Tesla

[chickensevil]

I rarely repeat my posts when ignored, but I'll give this one last try.

The "AC induction servo motor" is 1283 kg each:
http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/...ery-co-ltd-tesla-motors-inc/yasvnltpe0038682/

This is what those 1000+kg Fukuta AC servo induction motors look like:

http://www.fukuta-motor.com.tw/en/products_sub_F02.html
http://catalog.prm-catalog.com/?ID=376&co=2738&lang=en

Here's a list of 1000+kg motors from their catalog:
SBA-225X
SA-280 (all variants)
SA-225X

It is very obvious they are not the ones Tesla is using inside their car and if you look at the catalog, they are designed to be used in manufacturing lines where precise positioning is required. In context, this would be Tesla's production line.

For the Motor Parts:
http://portexaminer.com/trade-data/...ery-co-ltd-tesla-motors-inc/yasvnltpe0044459/
Let's use some simple math: 46380 kg gross weight (this would include pallets, and all packaging). 2640 pcs.
46380kg/2640pcs = 17.6 kg = 39 lbs per piece (including pallets, and individual packaging).

Tesla says a Roadster motor weighs 115 lbs. These are very obviously not complete assembled traction motors, but likely what they are declared as: motor parts.

I'll put this in clear terms: If you can't address any of those points and continue to ignore them, I will presume I have the last word and you are completely wrong.

Also, note the frequency of "Motor Parts" shipments, verses the "Servo Motors", there is no way that the servo motors are coming in near frequent enough to allow tesla to make as many cars as they are currently. On the "Motor Parts" portion, they appear to be coming in frequent enough to be parts used in the cars, but as your math indicates it is likely "Motor Parts" as the documents state and not full motors since they don't weight near enough.

Lastly assuming that they are pulling in enough parts for 50k cars, and given that the vast majority of the cars are dual motor, they would need roughly 35-40 shipments a year from them to supply enough parts. Do we have that many customs documents? I can't look right now because of where I am accessing from to see if there is enough volume. This is also assuming all of them are shipping roughly 2640 pcs per shipment... less pcs would require more shipments in a year... but bottom line there should be more than 2 shipments a month on average to sustain the factory if these parts are used in the production of their motors.

I though we had all agreed anyway, that Tesla is getting "parts" of their motors from Fukuta, so it wouldn't surprise me if the shipments line up to match this. This isn't the issue at hand though, as Tesla is likely to get most all of their parts from *somewhere*... Not like they have a mine in their backyard to get everything themselves and would of course have multiple suppliers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I though we had all agreed anyway, that Tesla is getting "parts" of their motors from Fukuta, so it wouldn't surprise me if the shipments line up to match this. This isn't the issue at hand though, as Tesla is likely to get most all of their parts from *somewhere*... Not like they have a mine in their backyard to get everything themselves and would of course have multiple suppliers.

No disagreement on that. Fukuta is obviously a part supplier for the motor in the car, just as SKF is, as pointed out by others. However, the facts show that the "AC induction servo motor" he continually refers to are not the ones used in the car. The facts simply do not support that Tesla buys the full assembled traction motor in the Model S from Fukuta.

Of course even if Fukuta supplied the whole traction motor (as they did in the Roadster) there is nothing wrong with that either. Tesla didn't implode because of that, nor were there serious quality issues with the motor in the Roadster.

 

[JER]

Quite so; now we have pictures, it's bleedin' obvious these motors Avenger has been obsessing over are not the traction motors of any Tesla vehicle. No story here, other than an obsessed maniac wasting others' time.

 

[techmaven]

I was really hoping Avenger would come up with a new theory, something juicy. Instead, we get the same old easily refuted bit and pieces. It was nice to see the Fukuta video though, that's a great additional bit of back story.

 

[pz1975]

Why do you guys keep responding to a person that has ignored EVERYTHING you have all said for weeks now? Seems like an excellent troll job being done.

 

[chickensevil]

Why do you guys keep responding to a person that has ignored EVERYTHING you have all said for weeks now? Seems like an excellent troll job being done.

Bored, mostly....

 

[JRP3]

Yup, and amused :biggrin:

Let's try talking Avenger's own language:

 

[Avenger]

This is shipment data for 4-5 weeks..... all motor parts come from Fukuta......and some motors are assembled in California.

Kind regards.

 

[chickensevil]

This is shipment data for 4-5 weeks..... all motor parts come from Fukuta......and some motors are assembled in California.

Kind regards.

You failed to properly rebutt (or even attempt to do so) anyone's comments since your last therefore you are admitting defeat I presume?

Kind Regards.

 

[JRP3]

This is shipment data for 4-5 weeks..... all motor parts come from Fukuta......and some motors are assembled in California.

Kind regards.

False, since we know at least the motor bearings come from SKF. Since they are winding the traction motors at the factory in California it's likely that the copper wire, epoxy, and insulation also comes from someplace other than Fukuta, since Fukuta does not make copper wire, epoxy, or insulation.
So, to summarize, Fukuta does not make the traction motor, and Fukuta does not supply all parts to make the motor.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Why do you guys keep responding to a person that has ignored EVERYTHING you have all said for weeks now? Seems like an excellent troll job being done.

Because the thread is providing plenty of lulz ftw :love:

If you think this thread is bad, read some of the aftermath of the Apple A9 iPhone processor sourcing rumors: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/28/iphone-6s-a9-samsung-tsmc/

There were people seriously freaking out over whether their iPhone 6S had an A9 fabbed by Samsung or the Taiwanese TSMC company :love: People said that Taiwan was junk... until:

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/07/tsmc-samsung-a9-battery-tests/

the most dramatic result comes from a reddit poster who compared Samsung and TSMC versions of the iPhone 6s Plus using the battery life test included in Geekbench 3, finding the TSMC version lasting nearly two hours longer than the model with Samsung A9 chip.

Then the panic shifted in reverse, with people clamoring to know if they had the Taiwan chip, and people selling 6S on auction sites listing the TSMC chip as a positive attribute of the particular phone.

Ultimately, test results outside of the Geek Bench suite showed little if any difference.

But the whole iPhone processor freak-out had me ROFL :love:

 

[JER]

Buying motor parts and materials is not an abnormal activity for a motor manufacturer. Sorry to state the bleedin' obvious, but apparently it is necessary.

Also, Fukuta does not list any motor that is even similar, let alone identical to those in Tesla's drive units.

There is also the small matter of Mercedes using Tesla drive units for some time in their B-Class BEV. Maybe you could look up those delivery manifests and note where they came from?

 

[Avenger]

EV motors are customized by Fukuta FUKUTA ELEC. & MACH. CO, LTD. ..... kind regards.

 

[JRP3]

And Tesla motors are built by...Tesla. I know, the videos and first person accounts of Tesla actually building motors in the factory are just marketing smoke screens which we should ignore in the face of your unsubstantiated claims that Fukuta is really building them. Kind regards.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

View attachment 106116
EV motors are customized by Fukuta FUKUTA ELEC. & MACH. CO, LTD. ..... kind regards.

Yes, we know that Fukuta makes both EV and customized motors (customized motors are very low volume, otherwise they'd make it a part of the catalog). That doesn't mean that what they offer is what was sold to Tesla. The only complete motor you've found are the servo motors. It should be abundantly clear by now that the traction motors (for driving) are not servo motors.

The thing to think about is that Tesla needed 30,000+ AC Induction Motors in 2014. If Fukuta was making the whole motor, then they'd need to have a factory line set up to build it. If it was a Fukuta design, then they should be able to list it on their online catalog (alongside some of the lower volume motors that they also produce). Since it's not listed, then it's either a Tesla design, or Fukuta doesn't make the complete motor for Tesla.

 

[techmaven]

There is also the distinct possibility that a Fukuta designed and built motor is better than Tesla's own. After all, we are getting drive unit problems in the Model S. Avenger, maybe you should revise your short thesis to say that the problem with Tesla is that they don't rely on Fukuta enough... after all, the Roadster motor was a gem and that one was built by Fukuta.

 

[ecarfan]

You guys are arguing with someone who will not change their position no matter what evidence you present. I suggest you move on to other more useful and productive activities.
But anyone who wishes to continue taking their time to post the same evidence over and over again is of course welcome to do so.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

You guys are arguing with someone who will not change their position no matter what evidence you present. I suggest you move on to other more useful and productive activities.
But anyone who wishes to continue taking their time to post the same evidence over and over again is of course welcome to do so.

as chickensevil said, "we're bored ..."

 

[JER]

There are other companies besides Fukuta that offer customised motor designs. Are they also supplying Tesla with traction motors?

Avenger, what you're presenting here is not even a valid argument, let alone a sound one.

 

[Avenger]

No China Steel Corp of Taiwan invested in Fukuta because of the Tesla Motor motor supplier relationship.

Why was Fukuta, a private company, seeking out side investor to expand production line in order to meet higher orders of motors for Model S and X.
China Steel denies interfering in Fukuta’s operation - Taipei Times

The only motor designer/manufacturer with records of shipping tons and tons of Motors/ all the parts to assemble a motor is Fukuta.

It would be very difficult to get a new supplier because Tesla Motors would have to get a motor manufacturer to build out manufacturing capability to build motors/or all the parts to assemble a motor in California.

If Tesla Motors was building motors from scratch the relationship with China Steel Corp would exist between Tesla and China Steel.

Best Regards....