FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[TK211X]

Horrible. If the FSD version hits a curb, it shouldn’t roll out.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Horrible. If the FSD version hits a curb, it shouldn’t roll out.

You must be new here. This is a time-honored tradition.

 

[Sharps97]

I bought it exclusively for the curb smashing

 

[Tronguy]

And, with all the "It's horrible! Did this strange thing!" and so forth, thought I'd throw in a.. normal, non-scary drive.

So, with this exercise regime I'm on, there's rewards for getting some decent walks in. I was at a threshold and decided to go out this week with a bang by hiking around South Mountain Reservation in NJ. So, hauled out the M3, put in the Turtleback Rock picnic area into the NAV, and let it fly. Car is a 2023 M3 with vision, natch, and Auto Speed Max turned on.

All the things I'm about to describe are places where FSD releases previous to FSD 12.x have failed. Badly.

• Drove out of my little development without speeding. Yes, there's a 25 mph limit, but no sign; the car's always come up that way. Went considerably slower, took one right turn within the development without trying to treat it as a stop sign. Went to the larger, public road, looked both ways and, without much hesitation, turned left, smoothly, without a wait. (That's at least two, maybe three interventions compared to 10.x.)
• Went up to the main drag through town, which has a stop sign for me and flowing through traffic. Did the NHTSA dance but, once up to the line, waited until traffic cleared, crept up a bit more, then took off.
• Crossed over US Rt. 1 and took the UPL to the on-ramp for US1. Things it didn't do:
  • Dodge to the right curb on the "go right, then go left" that was popular pre-12.x.
  • Stayed a little to the left, allowing traffic on the right to pass by.
• On the on-ramp, sped up, and, on the exceedingly short distance required to merge to the right, did so.
• Sped up to 52 mph or so on US1 north; ignored the "Truck 45 mph" signs.
• Got into the center lane (of three); then shifted further to the left to pass slower traffic. With about a mile to go to the Garden State Parkway, shifted to the center lane, then smoothly sped up, passed a slower vehicle, and got into the proper right lane for the exit. Once in that lane, didn't try to dodge into any of a couple-three right exit ramps, something that 11.4.9 liked to do.
• Followed traffic up and around onto the GSP; properly put the turn signal on and got off the exit ramp, then boosted the speed up to 60 on a 55 mph road. I boosted that up a bit more.
• For the next 17 miles or so, with the speed set to 65 or so, moved back and forth, passing slower cars and getting out of the way of speeders. Yes, it's the EAP stack, but still.
• Went through the toll booths without too much complaint. Yeah, I goosed it after passing through; FSDS is still a little hesitant about getting up to speed after a toll booth.
• Chugging through the narrow portions of the GSP, was in the left lane coming up on the I-280 exit. With about a mile to go, moved first to the next lane over; then moved to the right lane. And, after a pause and, in heavyish traffic, found an opening and got into the left lane of a two lane exit ramp.
• While in that lane, executed the exit and stayed stuck to the left, back in local roads mode. Went around the big loop, eventually got into the center of three lanes going towards I-280, then got onto I-280 and back into EAP.
• Shifted out of the right lane for a bit, passed some slower traffic and, at about the correct time, got into the correct lane for the exit. Took the exit (which had a light, then did some back and forth at various stop lights, eventually getting onto a two-lane road heading for the hills. Note: With AutoMax set, the car went both slower and faster than the speed limit, keeping up with traffic, and not fashing anybody else. At times, this would have the car going at 35+ in a 25 zone; sometimes 20 in a 30 zone; but, in all cases, keeping up with the surrounding traffic, which was medium.
• Left lane of a two-lanes forward, twisty road going up a mountain. Pick-up truck in the left lane and my left turn coming up. Pick-up slows to a halt at an UPL; the Tesla slows down, then the pick-up executes, slowly, a left; the Tesla cuts a bit around to the right of the pick-up and passes, just as a human - but, unlike a human, it's looking towards the rear to make sure there's no on-coming traffic to hit the car. Moves a bit into the right lane, then shifts back left and keeps on going.
• At the next light, gets in the left turn lane; pulls a left when the light changes. Up a 25 mph road with speed bumps, slowing to 10 mph (proper) for these large bumps. After two of them, hangs a right into the entry for the picnic area. Twisty road up the hill, no markings, stone bridge abutments no problem. Then into the parking lot.
• Fun fact: A parking lot without lines! But the auto park spotted a place between two other cars and parked in it.

Nice hike. Turtle Back rock is the core of a ridge, exposed by wind, weather, and what looks like a fault in the Earth. Where the rock's exposed, it's not exactly smooth, but it consists of stuff that, I swear to you, looks like 4" to 1' diameter circle patterns that looks exactly like what one sees on a turtle's back. Hence the name, I guess.

That was some 20-odd miles. Not one intervention, at least, if one doesn't include gassing it from time to time. And rarely.

On the way back:

• It's 4:30 p.m. and Central Jersey rush hour has kicked in. The NAV wants to go a Different Way, so, leaving the entry road, the car turns right, not left. A mile or so of road with speed humps every couple hundred yards. Occasional opposing traffic. And then the winner: A lawn service truck, parked just past a speed hump, with opposing traffic. Car slowed, traffic passed, the car shifted left over the double-yellow, went over the speed hump, and passed the parked service truck. Then smoothly back into its lane and continued.
• Extra Credit! Further up, there's a honking big piece of yellow gear backing and filling onto the road, complete with a construction worker flag man. The yellow gear is off to the left of the road, the flag man walks to the middle of the road, and holds his hand/arm up at me. The car comes to a halt. 20 seconds, the yellow gear goes off to dig some more, the flag guy moves into the left lane, looks at me/the car, and waves us forward. Without any intervention by me, the car passes him slowly, then continued. OK.. the car might just have stopped/picked up again because the guy was standing on the double yellow. But to me it looked like FSDS was watching arm movements.
• The next two miles was itsy bitsy curvy twisty roads in a residential district at the base of South Mountain, with some serious ups and downs, stops signs, cars parked on and off on both sides, and one-way streets entering and exiting. Executed flawlessly at a reasonable speed. At one point, a fellow was crossing the road to get to his truck, the car stopped, then, once the guy was playing in the rear of his truck, moved slowly past, then picked up speed.
• Eventually all of this let out onto a more major road: Still twisty, but with a 30 mph limit. Unprotected right. It crept up, watched oncoming traffic (medium) for a bit. I saw a gap and gassed it. It moved into the road nicely and sped up to 35 or so, keeping ahead of the traffic, no problem.
• This then ran into a conglomeration of New Jersey's finest intersections: Roads intersecting at 75-degree angles, with the left lane only left, the right lane only right. Car got into the correct lanes without hesitation and went with the light.
• Immediately after the right, car moved over three lanes to get into the left turn lane at the next light, smoothly, sans jerks, or spending any time in the far right lane. The light went green as it was approached and followed the crowd, getting into the correct, left lane. Then let some speeding traffic coming up on the right into the go-straight ahead lane, without arguing.
• Went straight ahead for about a mile through multiple lights, multiple shifts to the left and right to stay in the go-straight lane. No problems, kept up, and no honking from anybody: The car was just another vehicle on the road.
• Sharp right onto the on-ramp for I-78 East; executed the on-ramp merge sans problems.
• There is this One Intersection that used to be on my commute where I-78 intersects the Garden State Parkway. Two lanes exit to the right, one of the two being a "split" where one can go straight or join the right-turning lane. If one is heading to the GSP Southbound, one gets into the right lane, then suffers all the Mercedes and BMW owners zooming in on the left and getting into the right lane, as both lanes arch up and over I-78. No problem, smoothly let a couple of the gotta-get-there types on, but didn't lag to leave big holes for the numbnuts.
• After the arching-over trick, the road splits into two, with the left lane heading North whilst the right lane heads south. The right lane curves around, eventually doing a 180, while Yet Another Lane appears on the left, so it's two lanes onto the GSP southbound. The car navigated this all at speed, keeping up, not jerking, and ending up in the right lane.
• At this point the GSP is some 7 lanes wide, with two more (!) lanes appearing on the right, complete with traffic. And, in about a half-mile, three or four of all the lanes on the right are either going to disappear or turn into exits to other roads. My usual shtick is to fight my way (and it is a fight, this is NJ drivers) to the left two lanes. I let FSDS give it a stab. It was pretty darn good. It moved ahead at normal speed, saw an opening to the left, and moved into that without drama. This still left another lane to go. Another hundred yards, it put its left turn signal on, and, with a red edge on the left-side camera (i.e., the car to my left rear was too darn close) slowly edged its way One More Lane To The Left. No honks.. this is normal for this intersection. And, once there, sped up with everybody else to 50+ (in a nominal 45 zone), kept on shifting to the left, and it was 65+ all the way home. Not one intervention (typically, two for this area last year), and my foot stayed off the gas pedal. Amazing.
• At this point, all there was left was the usual tulmult of getting off the GSP onto US-1 southbound. It's a <S>wonderful</S> off ramp: Cars lined up into a lane that immediately hits an almost-always red traffic light, and the off-ramp lane disappears immediately after the light, unless one wants to go into a cul-de-sac kind of impossible to get out of subdevelopment. The car in FSDS fought its way to the left one lane, avoiding the peril. (Which more than one human driver falls prey to.) It then went straight ahead on the three-lane part of US1, eventually getting onto the center lane, and went with rush-hour traffic to my exit.
• And, once again, that exit: As others have noted, 12.x starts signalling well before its turn, just like humans: So it took its right with the turn signal blinking, in 50 mph traffic, and nobody behind me honked.

And there we are. Around 50 miles of interstates, local roads, stop signs, stop lights, yeild signs, weird intersections, two-lane road, multiple lane roads, 70 mph roads, 15 mph roads, speed bumps, twisty streets, construction vehicles, pedestrians, toll booths, heavy traffic, light traffic, medium traffic, and what-all. AND NO INTERVENTIONS.

No hitting curbs; not even close. No wandering back in forth in lane. No phantom braking, and that's with some deep shadows under bridges. The Auto Max did an admirable job of setting the speed of the car to stay with other traffic; and, in the places where there wasn't that much traffic, no creeping around at 1/2 the limit or something. There's still the NHTSA behavior at stop signs.. but that's not Tesla's fault.

FSD 12.3.4. It's not bad.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There's still the NHTSA behavior at stop signs.. but that's not Tesla's fault.

The behavior at stop signs is not mandated by NHTSA. Can we please squash this myth?

The only requirement is that the car stop at the correct location.

Currently it violates NHTSA requirements. People should file complaints if they find this to be the case for their vehicle!

 

[drtimhill]

The behavior at stop signs is not mandated by NHTSA. Can we please squash this myth?

Quosh not squash .. you squash flies (and moths, not myths

Besides, are you sure? It was certainly negotiated when the NHTSA were "discussing" FSD way back in 10.x days ....

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Quosh not squash .. you squash flies (and moths, not myths

I said squash and I meant squash!

Besides, are you sure? It was certainly negotiated when the NHTSA were "discussing" FSD way back in 10.x days ....

The requirement is that the vehicle stop in the correct location. Not 10 feet early, not in the middle of the intersection, etc. Both of these are violations of NHTSA requirements/rules/agreement.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Quosh not squash

said squash and I meant squash!

And besides, if I had meant “quash” I would have written that, not quosh.

Squash is a synonym of quash, FWIW. And it is definitely the word I intended to use.

 

[zoomer0056]

Squash is a synonym of quash, FWIW.

Nope.

And from Meta AI:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Nope.
View attachment 1041432

Lol.

Can we please quash this myth?

I’m not interested in debating factual information with ChatGPT. I’m more interested in the NHTSA stops.

I meant squash. That is why I used that word. It literally means “suppress/reject.” It cannot be more simple.

What ChatGPT or what anyone else thinks I meant to write is not relevant to the discussion about NHTSA stops, which is the topic at hand.

And from Meta AI:

Perhaps AI is not the answer after all?

Come on, people. This is the English language. Turns out there is a LOT of latitude.

Let’s focus on the NHTSA stops.

 

[Tronguy]

Lol.

Can we please quash this myth?

I’m not interested in debating factual information with ChatGPT. I’m more interested in the NHTSA stops.

I meant squash. That is why I used that word. It literally means “suppress/reject.” It cannot be more simple.

What ChatGPT or what anyone else thinks I meant to write is not relevant to the discussion about NHTSA stops, which is the topic at hand.



Perhaps AI is not the answer after all?

Come on, people. This is the English language. Turns out there is a LOT of latitude.

Let’s focus on the NHTSA stops.

Yeah, let's get this NHTSA stuff straight.

Start: When there's no cross-traffic, Teslas are not coming to a complete halt at stop signs. Just like people.

Next: NHTSA is investigating this. About the time that the anti-Tesla head of the NHTSA was put in place. A conference is called.

Next major update: Everybody is complaining around here about this, "Stop at the white line. Fully. Creep up. Stare. Then turn." Successes or failures of these turns are not at issue here. We're talking about the "Stop, Creep, Look, then Turn" behavior, which had people left, right, and center intervening because of (correctly) impatient drivers to the rear of the Tesla FSD car trying to make that turn.

Next: Interview with Musk. He states, "We told the NHTSA that humans rarely, if ever came to a full stop, but would move on through. WE HAVE THE DATA. They refused and demanded that the car come to a full stop at the line."

You've been running around claiming that this is some kind of Tesla choice, implying that the NHTSA had little to nothing to do with it, but reported events, by the people who were there, say otherwise.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Everybody is complaining around here about this, "Stop at the white line.

On the contrary, I have consistently complained that it is NOT stopping at the white line.

It is often stopping so far away it is a safety hazard in several ways, previously described.

You've been running around claiming that this is some kind of Tesla choice

No. I just said that what Tesla is doing is not mandated by NHTSA.

implying that the NHTSA had little to nothing to do with it

NHTSA is mandating stopping at the white line. That’s all. I am 100% on board with that requirement.

 

[rlsd]

I bought it exclusively for the curb smashing

If FSD does not scratch your wheels then sooner or later you will scratch them. Otherwise your car is not a Tesla.

 

[Knightshade]

Next: NHTSA is investigating this. About the time that the anti-Tesla head of the NHTSA was put in place.

Pretty sure this is not the first time I've had to correct erroneously thinking Missy Cummings was ever the head of the NHTSA.

She was a senior advisor for safety, not even a manager- let alone "the head" of the agency-- and only there on a temporary assignment. Barely 2 months after her appointment she was required to recuse herself from any matters involving Tesla- a thing that happened PRIOR to the stop sign recall, and less than a year later was no longer with the agency at all.

 

[drtimhill]

Pretty sure this is not the first time I've had to correct erroneously thinking Missy Cummings was ever the head of the NHTSA.

She was a senior advisor for safety, not even a manager- let alone "the head" of the agency-- and only there on a temporary assignment. Barely 2 months after her appointment she was required to recuse herself from any matters involving Tesla- a thing that happened PRIOR to the stop sign recall, and less than a year later was no longer with the agency at all.

Good thing someone was here to QUASH that misunderstanding!! (grins and runs away)

 

[Daniel in SD]

Can we please quash this myth?

Here is the recall: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V037-4462.PDF
As far as I can tell it just says they can't do "rolling stops". It does not require multiple stops.
I didn't realize there is another recall addressing flaws that they have still failed to fix (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF)

In certain rare circumstances and within the operating limitations of FSD Beta, when the feature is engaged, the feature could potentially infringe upon local traffic laws or customs while executing certain driving maneuvers in the following conditions before some drivers may intervene:
2) the perceived duration of the vehicle’s static position at certain intersections with a stop sign, particularly when the intersection is clear of any other road users; 3) adjusting vehicle speed while traveling through certain variable speed zones, based on detected speed limit signage and/or the vehicle's speed offset setting that is adjusted by the driver; and 4) negotiating a lane change out of certain turn-only lanes to continue traveling straight.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is the recall: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V037-4462.PDF
As far as I can tell it just says they can't do "rolling stops". It does not require multiple stops.

Thanks for the clear info.

Yes, it must stop. And implicitly (though not explicit here), the stop must be at the actual intersection. Not somewhere else far removed.

For the second one, yes, this one is well known. For point 2), no one has ever been able to explain what it means. Plenty of speculation about 0mph when not indicated, etc.

In the end it seemed to lead to perhaps lead to longer duration stops, though what is happening now of course has nothing to do with this (right now it is not even always stopping at the intersection!!!).

Anyway, the only requirement was to stop, 0mph indicated (which really does require brakes at the very end to accomplish in a timely mannner, and it appears this is a big challenge for Tesla - they can only apply brakes at higher speeds it seems). Perhaps in v13.

 

[JulienW]

Horrible. If the FSD version hits a curb, it shouldn’t roll out.

You sure NEVER had any V10.x FSD Beta curb love. I un-fondly remember disengaging about >25% of the time turning and even spending a few hundred on wheel repairs. At least now we have a fender camera preview when turning to monitor.

 

[Pdubs]

And, with all the "It's horrible! Did this strange thing!" and so forth, thought I'd throw in a.. normal, non-scary drive.

So, with this exercise regime I'm on, there's rewards for getting some decent walks in. I was at a threshold and decided to go out this week with a bang by hiking around South Mountain Reservation in NJ. So, hauled out the M3, put in the Turtleback Rock picnic area into the NAV, and let it fly. Car is a 2023 M3 with vision, natch, and Auto Speed Max turned on.

All the things I'm about to describe are places where FSD releases previous to FSD 12.x have failed. Badly.

• Drove out of my little development without speeding. Yes, there's a 25 mph limit, but no sign; the car's always come up that way. Went considerably slower, took one right turn within the development without trying to treat it as a stop sign. Went to the larger, public road, looked both ways and, without much hesitation, turned left, smoothly, without a wait. (That's at least two, maybe three interventions compared to 10.x.)
• Went up to the main drag through town, which has a stop sign for me and flowing through traffic. Did the NHTSA dance but, once up to the line, waited until traffic cleared, crept up a bit more, then took off.
• Crossed over US Rt. 1 and took the UPL to the on-ramp for US1. Things it didn't do:
  • Dodge to the right curb on the "go right, then go left" that was popular pre-12.x.
  • Stayed a little to the left, allowing traffic on the right to pass by.
• On the on-ramp, sped up, and, on the exceedingly short distance required to merge to the right, did so.
• Sped up to 52 mph or so on US1 north; ignored the "Truck 45 mph" signs.
• Got into the center lane (of three); then shifted further to the left to pass slower traffic. With about a mile to go to the Garden State Parkway, shifted to the center lane, then smoothly sped up, passed a slower vehicle, and got into the proper right lane for the exit. Once in that lane, didn't try to dodge into any of a couple-three right exit ramps, something that 11.4.9 liked to do.
• Followed traffic up and around onto the GSP; properly put the turn signal on and got off the exit ramp, then boosted the speed up to 60 on a 55 mph road. I boosted that up a bit more.
• For the next 17 miles or so, with the speed set to 65 or so, moved back and forth, passing slower cars and getting out of the way of speeders. Yes, it's the EAP stack, but still.
• Went through the toll booths without too much complaint. Yeah, I goosed it after passing through; FSDS is still a little hesitant about getting up to speed after a toll booth.
• Chugging through the narrow portions of the GSP, was in the left lane coming up on the I-280 exit. With about a mile to go, moved first to the next lane over; then moved to the right lane. And, after a pause and, in heavyish traffic, found an opening and got into the left lane of a two lane exit ramp.
• While in that lane, executed the exit and stayed stuck to the left, back in local roads mode. Went around the big loop, eventually got into the center of three lanes going towards I-280, then got onto I-280 and back into EAP.
• Shifted out of the right lane for a bit, passed some slower traffic and, at about the correct time, got into the correct lane for the exit. Took the exit (which had a light, then did some back and forth at various stop lights, eventually getting onto a two-lane road heading for the hills. Note: With AutoMax set, the car went both slower and faster than the speed limit, keeping up with traffic, and not fashing anybody else. At times, this would have the car going at 35+ in a 25 zone; sometimes 20 in a 30 zone; but, in all cases, keeping up with the surrounding traffic, which was medium.
• Left lane of a two-lanes forward, twisty road going up a mountain. Pick-up truck in the left lane and my left turn coming up. Pick-up slows to a halt at an UPL; the Tesla slows down, then the pick-up executes, slowly, a left; the Tesla cuts a bit around to the right of the pick-up and passes, just as a human - but, unlike a human, it's looking towards the rear to make sure there's no on-coming traffic to hit the car. Moves a bit into the right lane, then shifts back left and keeps on going.
• At the next light, gets in the left turn lane; pulls a left when the light changes. Up a 25 mph road with speed bumps, slowing to 10 mph (proper) for these large bumps. After two of them, hangs a right into the entry for the picnic area. Twisty road up the hill, no markings, stone bridge abutments no problem. Then into the parking lot.
• Fun fact: A parking lot without lines! But the auto park spotted a place between two other cars and parked in it.

Nice hike. Turtle Back rock is the core of a ridge, exposed by wind, weather, and what looks like a fault in the Earth. Where the rock's exposed, it's not exactly smooth, but it consists of stuff that, I swear to you, looks like 4" to 1' diameter circle patterns that looks exactly like what one sees on a turtle's back. Hence the name, I guess.

That was some 20-odd miles. Not one intervention, at least, if one doesn't include gassing it from time to time. And rarely.

On the way back:

• It's 4:30 p.m. and Central Jersey rush hour has kicked in. The NAV wants to go a Different Way, so, leaving the entry road, the car turns right, not left. A mile or so of road with speed humps every couple hundred yards. Occasional opposing traffic. And then the winner: A lawn service truck, parked just past a speed hump, with opposing traffic. Car slowed, traffic passed, the car shifted left over the double-yellow, went over the speed hump, and passed the parked service truck. Then smoothly back into its lane and continued.
• Extra Credit! Further up, there's a honking big piece of yellow gear backing and filling onto the road, complete with a construction worker flag man. The yellow gear is off to the left of the road, the flag man walks to the middle of the road, and holds his hand/arm up at me. The car comes to a halt. 20 seconds, the yellow gear goes off to dig some more, the flag guy moves into the left lane, looks at me/the car, and waves us forward. Without any intervention by me, the car passes him slowly, then continued. OK.. the car might just have stopped/picked up again because the guy was standing on the double yellow. But to me it looked like FSDS was watching arm movements.
• The next two miles was itsy bitsy curvy twisty roads in a residential district at the base of South Mountain, with some serious ups and downs, stops signs, cars parked on and off on both sides, and one-way streets entering and exiting. Executed flawlessly at a reasonable speed. At one point, a fellow was crossing the road to get to his truck, the car stopped, then, once the guy was playing in the rear of his truck, moved slowly past, then picked up speed.
• Eventually all of this let out onto a more major road: Still twisty, but with a 30 mph limit. Unprotected right. It crept up, watched oncoming traffic (medium) for a bit. I saw a gap and gassed it. It moved into the road nicely and sped up to 35 or so, keeping ahead of the traffic, no problem.
• This then ran into a conglomeration of New Jersey's finest intersections: Roads intersecting at 75-degree angles, with the left lane only left, the right lane only right. Car got into the correct lanes without hesitation and went with the light.
• Immediately after the right, car moved over three lanes to get into the left turn lane at the next light, smoothly, sans jerks, or spending any time in the far right lane. The light went green as it was approached and followed the crowd, getting into the correct, left lane. Then let some speeding traffic coming up on the right into the go-straight ahead lane, without arguing.
• Went straight ahead for about a mile through multiple lights, multiple shifts to the left and right to stay in the go-straight lane. No problems, kept up, and no honking from anybody: The car was just another vehicle on the road.
• Sharp right onto the on-ramp for I-78 East; executed the on-ramp merge sans problems.
• There is this One Intersection that used to be on my commute where I-78 intersects the Garden State Parkway. Two lanes exit to the right, one of the two being a "split" where one can go straight or join the right-turning lane. If one is heading to the GSP Southbound, one gets into the right lane, then suffers all the Mercedes and BMW owners zooming in on the left and getting into the right lane, as both lanes arch up and over I-78. No problem, smoothly let a couple of the gotta-get-there types on, but didn't lag to leave big holes for the numbnuts.
• After the arching-over trick, the road splits into two, with the left lane heading North whilst the right lane heads south. The right lane curves around, eventually doing a 180, while Yet Another Lane appears on the left, so it's two lanes onto the GSP southbound. The car navigated this all at speed, keeping up, not jerking, and ending up in the right lane.
• At this point the GSP is some 7 lanes wide, with two more (!) lanes appearing on the right, complete with traffic. And, in about a half-mile, three or four of all the lanes on the right are either going to disappear or turn into exits to other roads. My usual shtick is to fight my way (and it is a fight, this is NJ drivers) to the left two lanes. I let FSDS give it a stab. It was pretty darn good. It moved ahead at normal speed, saw an opening to the left, and moved into that without drama. This still left another lane to go. Another hundred yards, it put its left turn signal on, and, with a red edge on the left-side camera (i.e., the car to my left rear was too darn close) slowly edged its way One More Lane To The Left. No honks.. this is normal for this intersection. And, once there, sped up with everybody else to 50+ (in a nominal 45 zone), kept on shifting to the left, and it was 65+ all the way home. Not one intervention (typically, two for this area last year), and my foot stayed off the gas pedal. Amazing.
• At this point, all there was left was the usual tulmult of getting off the GSP onto US-1 southbound. It's a <S>wonderful</S> off ramp: Cars lined up into a lane that immediately hits an almost-always red traffic light, and the off-ramp lane disappears immediately after the light, unless one wants to go into a cul-de-sac kind of impossible to get out of subdevelopment. The car in FSDS fought its way to the left one lane, avoiding the peril. (Which more than one human driver falls prey to.) It then went straight ahead on the three-lane part of US1, eventually getting onto the center lane, and went with rush-hour traffic to my exit.
• And, once again, that exit: As others have noted, 12.x starts signalling well before its turn, just like humans: So it took its right with the turn signal blinking, in 50 mph traffic, and nobody behind me honked.

And there we are. Around 50 miles of interstates, local roads, stop signs, stop lights, yeild signs, weird intersections, two-lane road, multiple lane roads, 70 mph roads, 15 mph roads, speed bumps, twisty streets, construction vehicles, pedestrians, toll booths, heavy traffic, light traffic, medium traffic, and what-all. AND NO INTERVENTIONS.

No hitting curbs; not even close. No wandering back in forth in lane. No phantom braking, and that's with some deep shadows under bridges. The Auto Max did an admirable job of setting the speed of the car to stay with other traffic; and, in the places where there wasn't that much traffic, no creeping around at 1/2 the limit or something. There's still the NHTSA behavior at stop signs.. but that's not Tesla's fault.

FSD 12.3.4. It's not bad.

I can’t believe alansubpar actually downvoted an experience post. /s (I totally believe it)

I find your level of retention amazing. Do you drive with a recorder and take notes? I can’t remember the last 10 miles I drove.

 

[kabin]

Here is the recall: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V037-4462.PDF
As far as I can tell it just says they can't do "rolling stops". It does not require multiple stops.
I didn't realize there is another recall addressing flaws that they have still failed to fix (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF)

That sounds about right. The perverted FSD stop sign behaviors began with v10.69 and Chuck's unprotected left turn. I've always assumed it was a hack enabling more time for the system to possibly gain some scenario wits. Whatever the reason, the team apparently doesn't trust stop sign behaviors without slowing well short, creeping to the stop sign, and creeping after the stop sign when needed. Apparently the heuristics are gone so v12 crawl logic is likely continued via throttle/brake/regen NNs simulated training data as no coherent attentive human drives like that.