Thanks @Knighshade, I figured you would jump in on this. I also agree I don't expect Tesla to do L3 anytime soon since L3 is not aligned with Elon's robotaxi push which I get. Still L3 has major potential if done right.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- Tags
- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd has decision wobble fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd sometimes may not detect train crossings fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
L3 rollout by Tesla wouldn’t be the issue, it’s what aronth5 mentioned in the original post. Watching videos, texting, theater mode, etc that will need governmental involvement which I’m sure they won’t be quickly inclined to push through until there’s a significant amount of data. So as of now we’re lacking the software, the studies, the data, and the governmental approval. I would guess this all will not happening in at minimum 5 years. I could be wrong though.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
This reminds me of a tiny 152's panel. There was a sticker that read "If all else fails PUSH RED BUTTON" on the same sticker. It's the equivalent of a system that can put you into an unrecoverable situation faster than you can react because it's advertised as level 2 purely for legal reasons.
Or like strapping a monkey to a rocket and training it that if something goes wrong to hit a button. The button does nothing.
I've been tempted to do this but off-put by the 30 minutes of highway driving for potentially negligible performance increase.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Why?
Mercedes already has L3 deployed in at least 2 US states without any 'new' regulation.
Including Nevada- which is one of the states you only need to file that self-certification form I already mentioned.
When the system is running, the human in the seat is not driving so they aren't breaking any laws against texting while driving or anything like it.
An electronic psyop can be as sophisticated as needed to achieve the required intent on targets and nothing more.
This is why Nigerian scams are purposefully filled with mistakes because the people who will ignore the red flags are the intended targets.
Because upping the classification imposes further liability on the whole system. Under-promise, over deliver. Mercedes needed the advertising. After the NHTSA complained about a font size do you really think Tesla will stick their neck out and slow development over a single black digit printed on regulatory paperwork.
No. I'm pretty sure Mercedes is more than vision only so there's at least some design consideration for redundancy/safety. Also, I've yet to see FSD respond quick enough for last second adjacent traffic cut-ins, etc.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...none of that answers the actual question.
He said L3 would require more government involvement. It factually does not- and Mercedes having an L3 on the road in at least one self-certifying state, without having required any more government involvment, is proof of that.
WHY Mercedes launched the system has nothing to do with the regulations in play.... (esp. when the OTHER state they have it in so far is CA, one of the few that actually does require real approval)
That's not to say Tesla might not get scrutiny from some government agency after launching L3. But they don't need "regulatory approval" to launch it in the first place.
They need to say:
It's capable of L3
We have insurance
It follows all traffic laws.
Trust Us Bro.
That's it. They do that, and it can go on the road today in many US states. And some more of them after they file a form that says the same thing.
No "regulators" are standing in the way of that.
Again there's nothing in the law requiring any specific sensors- so that's irrelevant to the discussion
My friends with Teslas are all pretty gung-ho, active in the local Tesla groups, etc., and definitely "enthusiastic" (although that often as not comes across as being enthusiastically pissed off at something FSD does or doesn't do.)
As for recommending people buy it, no, I don't do that. I just talk about the pros and cons, as we're at a place where that's a lot of money for something that isn't quite ready for prime time and renting it later is a perfectly reasonable option. I'm also an investor so part of my personal rationale for ponying up for FSD was to help Tesla as much as possible. And it sure wasn't $12K when we bought it on our two cars. I think for my wife's M3 it was somewhere in the $5000 area and for my MS maybe $7500-ish?
I've been with you about not at all encouraging anyone to just try it before now. I do think it's now ready to be promoted more, as long as everyone understands what it means for a system to be L2. As even the cognoscenti here can spend many pages arguing about what it means to "drive", making clear what L2 really means could be a bit challenging for those delivery support peeps at the SCs lol.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I have a thorough grounding in reality. With that in mind, my report of my first commute to the office on v12.3:
For the first time ever, it made the entire trip from my house to the office (35 miles, 45 minutes) and every single issue I had on 11.4.9 was fixed. I did not *need* to disengage for any reason, whereas on 11.4.9 I needed to disengage about 4 times. That's great.
There's only one (two) problem(s): For about 35 of those minutes, I had to hold the pedal down. Even my grandma was rolling in her grave, impatient. On every single road, the car was driving either at the speed limit or 5 mph below it, and had I not held down the pedal everyone would have passed me.
Other than that, I disengaged because the map route did not give the the ideal route, and I have no way of conveniently saving the ideal route to work.
So two issues to address for me to have intervention-free commutes to work:
1. Speed control is by far the biggest issue right now. Hopefully 12.3.1 fixes most of it, because right now the car drives like my grandma who passed away 20 years ago. And it doesn't drive as slow as she did then, it drives as slow as she does now.
2. Need a way to save a specific route so that I don't have to disengage every day when the car wants to take a slightly less-than-ideal route to get to work.
Fix both of these issues and my 45 minute daily drive to work will regularly be intervention-free.
One more note: Chill/Average/Aggressive doesn't seem to do a thing for me.
For the first time ever, it made the entire trip from my house to the office (35 miles, 45 minutes) and every single issue I had on 11.4.9 was fixed. I did not *need* to disengage for any reason, whereas on 11.4.9 I needed to disengage about 4 times. That's great.
There's only one (two) problem(s): For about 35 of those minutes, I had to hold the pedal down. Even my grandma was rolling in her grave, impatient. On every single road, the car was driving either at the speed limit or 5 mph below it, and had I not held down the pedal everyone would have passed me.
Other than that, I disengaged because the map route did not give the the ideal route, and I have no way of conveniently saving the ideal route to work.
So two issues to address for me to have intervention-free commutes to work:
1. Speed control is by far the biggest issue right now. Hopefully 12.3.1 fixes most of it, because right now the car drives like my grandma who passed away 20 years ago. And it doesn't drive as slow as she did then, it drives as slow as she does now.
2. Need a way to save a specific route so that I don't have to disengage every day when the car wants to take a slightly less-than-ideal route to get to work.
Fix both of these issues and my 45 minute daily drive to work will regularly be intervention-free.
One more note: Chill/Average/Aggressive doesn't seem to do a thing for me.
Did you have AUTO MAX enabled in the AP menu? Both my friends and myself initially didn't realize the toggle was there. I have had it consistently drive over the speed limit.
Since we are nitpicking, most traffic light sensors in the road are inductive loops not weight sensors
I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee or I would've spit it all out when I read that.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
a stop sign I have close to my house 12.3 didn’t fix still
There’s 2 roads that come together into a curve and the car sees the stop sign on the other road and it thinks it’s on my road so it almost stops
There’s 2 roads that come together into a curve and the car sees the stop sign on the other road and it thinks it’s on my road so it almost stops
It depends on the road. The Auto/MAX is worse than the regular on 2 lane roads. I have one that is 55mph and it wants to stay at 40 mph. If a car comes up behind me it will hit 47, but that appears to be the max it will go on that road.
On 12.3.1, it's a bit better, but still mostly 1-2 mph under the speed limit...rarely will go over unless is an open wide road with traffic going faster.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I tried them both. Both the auto and manual settings sucked, and neither worked properly. Even with manual I had to hold the pedal down, which wasn't the case on 11.4.9.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
I don’t have a speed problem that others are talking about mine is going 60 in a 55, it sped up to 55 then stayed there about 5 seconds before slowly going up to 60
