Free nighttime electricity in Texas!

[reddy]

Amarillo is so far from Austin it might as well be another state or two away. OK, no basements in the major cities in Texas (now don't try to claim Amarillo is a major city).

Actually Amarillo is a major city, in that we produce so much of that electricity you are getting for free at night. And a lot of the natural gas. And we are the 'Helium Capital of the World' .

Any respectable major city should be capable of having a basement, IMO.

Had 30 - 40 mph wind from the west all day today. Good thing we have the Amarillo supercharger up and running, or nobody would make the Shamrock to Tucumcari stretch on I40.

 

[bwa]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/09/business/energy-environment/a-texas-utility-offers-a-nighttime-special-free-electricity.html

It seems that there is a glut of electricity during the night in Texas due to all of the wind power they generate (and lack of grid connections to other states) so some utilities are offering free power from 9pm to 6am.
This could be the picture of things to come in other states with wind power.

That's an amazing article. This quote shows that deregulation means different things to different people; why, for instance, does fake deregulation in California not work and people call it bad, but apparently real deregulation in Texas works well?:

"For utilities, the giveaway is hardly altruistic. Deregulation in Texas has spurred intense competition for customers. By encouraging energy use at night, utilities reduce some of the burdens, and costs, that the oversupply of wind energy places on the power grid."

 

[wdolson]

The Texas windmills won't be idle when they connect ERCOT to the other grids. Hell, California brownouts and rolling blackouts might be a thing of the past.

I laugh when I see someone saying "I just drove by a bunch of windmills and none of them were moving! What a waste!"

Um, California brownouts were caused by manipulation of the market by Enron and deregulation that favored manipulation rather than a real supply problem. energy production has been tight in California this year because of a shortage of hydropower.

For interstate electricity transmission, the shorter the distance the better. When California needs extra electricity they usually buy it from the Northwest which most years has an abundance of hydroelectric power. California also has it's share of good wind locations and they now have windmills in many of them. As well as having plenty of sun for solar, California also has some sites for good quality geothermal which is being used.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Would it ever be feasible, or cost-effective, for a utility to buy or build its own giant powerwall to store any "excess" electricity it generates?

 

[wdolson]

Would it ever be feasible, or cost-effective, for a utility to buy or build its own giant powerwall to store any "excess" electricity it generates?

Tesla Energy is going to make a version for power utilities. I don't know of any utilities that have reserved a system, but it will be available.

 

[dgpcolorado]

So, the only reason they are giving away free power is because they get paid to make it regardless? ...

Hardly. There is a considerable advantage for power companies in encouraging users to shift demand from peak periods during the day to the night when power is abundant. Reducing the peak demand during the day can lead to considerable cost savings for the utility, making an offer of free (or even negative cost) electricity at night cost-effective overall.

 

[jerry33]

Tesla Energy is going to make a version for power utilities. I don't know of any utilities that have reserved a system, but it will be available.

In Texas, Oncor had a plan to put in a 5,000 MW Tesla Powerbrick, but it was stopped by Texas legislators, so until the law changes it's not going to happen.

 

[ggies07]

In Texas, Oncor had a plan to put in a 5,000 MW Tesla Powerbrick, but it was stopped by Texas legislators, so until the law changes it's not going to happen.

WTF? Did you go on that field trip with the NTRG to Lancaster and found that out or has that been known for some time? First time for me hearing that.

 

[DillyBop]

recently i drove thru Texas. I was stunned at the constant landscape of wind turbines. this is great news and inspires hope.

 

[jerry33]

WTF? Did you go on that field trip with the NTRG to Lancaster and found that out or has that been known for some time? First time for me hearing that.

It was in the Dallas Morning News. Google for Oncor and Tesla and it's one of the first hits. That was the first time I heard of it too. I was looking to find out what stage it was at.

 

[ggies07]

It was in the Dallas Morning News. Google for Oncor and Tesla and it's one of the first hits. That was the first time I heard of it too. I was looking to find out what stage it was at.

Interesting....will do.

 

[Electroman]

Interesting that this never hit my Yahoo news feed

For Oncor, Texas battery plan fizzles | Dallas Morning News

Seven months later, the proposal has come to a grinding halt. When the Texas Legislature deregulated the state’s power market back in 1999, it prohibited transmission companies from owning generation and vice versa. Under the letter of the law, batteries are considered generation. And if Oncor were to move forward, it would need the law rewritten. But the proposal quickly drew objections from power generators worried that Oncor was infringing on their turf and questions over costs to ratepayers. In the end, Oncor failed to find a legislator in Austin to so much as introduce a bill on its behalf.

 

[jerry33]

Texas laws are always written to support legacy industries because the legacy industries make the largest campaign contributions.

 

[mspohr]

Texas laws are always written to support legacy industries because the legacy industries make the largest campaign contributions.

I'm afraid this applies to the entire country.
Government by the corporations and for the corporations.

 

[gizmoboy]

Any respectable major city should be capable of having a basement, IMO.

Tell that to Los Angeles...

 

[SW2Fiddler]

WTF? Did you go on that field trip with the NTRG to Lancaster and found that out or has that been known for some time? First time for me hearing that.

True. It has been decreed that batteries are generators*. Transmission/Delivery Utilities shall not be in the generation business.

*like we legislated Pi to be 3, catsup to be a vegetable, and so on...

 

[wdolson]

Tell that to Los Angeles...

Basements are fairly rare in California in general. I never heard of anyone with one when I lived in CA. In the Northwest daylight basements are common when houses are built on hills, but I've only seen a few full basements.

Where I grew up, the houses were built right on bedrock. It was a pain if you wanted to garden, we grew carrots an inch long and 4 inches thick one year, but it was very safe for earthquakes. Adding a basement to a house like that would have required explosives.

 

[reddy]

Tell that to Los Angeles...

As chance has it, I'm a 4th generation Californian and my family was from the LA area.

Pre WW2 homes in Los Angeles had what we called a 'California basement', which really didn't qualify as a living space. It was more for your water heater and the whole house vacuum cleaner. (Yes, that was a feature back then.)

Post WW2 homes were built in cookie cutter fashion, and it was cheaper to skip the basement. Having a deep basement concrete slab actually improves earthquake survivability, but home buyers in CA usually don't expect a basement, and thus builders don't build one. There is no architectural reason that So Cal doesn't have basements. Having said that, I HAVE been in So Cal homes with basements. So I would include LA as a basement capable city. :tongue:

 

[Lloyd]

As chance has it, I'm a 4th generation Californian and my family was from the LA area.

Pre WW2 homes in Los Angeles had what we called a 'California basement', which really didn't qualify as a living space. It was more for your water heater and the whole house vacuum cleaner. (Yes, that was a feature back then.)

Post WW2 homes were built in cookie cutter fashion, and it was cheaper to skip the basement. Having a deep basement concrete slab actually improves earthquake survivability, but home buyers in CA usually don't expect a basement, and thus builders don't build one. There is no architectural reason that So Cal doesn't have basements. Having said that, I HAVE been in So Cal homes with basements. So I would include LA as a basement capable city. :tongue:

Except me where I wanted to build a basement in my house, but I had standing water at 13 feet in my hydrology report. So to build a basement I had to build it like a boat with a pump to constantly pump out excess water. Expense was too high, so we built down three steps instead to feel like a basement. Compromise!

 

[wdolson]

Except me where I wanted to build a basement in my house, but I had standing water at 13 feet in my hydrology report. So to build a basement I had to build it like a boat with a pump to constantly pump out excess water. Expense was too high, so we built down three steps instead to feel like a basement. Compromise!

There is somewhere in SLO with a water table that high? I went to Cal Poly and my father still lives in Morro Bay. I didn't know the water table was so close to the surface anywhere in the area.