Fog Lights Gone?

[neroden]

@digitaltim, I completely agree with you. Tesla is continually improving the car and people need to lighten up a bit.

Get a clue. Tesla is removing advertised features without warning.

I bought the tech package *solely* for the fog lights. I didn't expect them to be any particular quality of fog lights, and they weren't. Which is fine. I got them.

If I had gotten a car without fog lights, I would have expected a full refund for the price of the tech package, and sales tax on it.

There is a basic rule of fair dealing: you don't remove advertised features without warning, without giving a customer the chance to back out. NON-advertised features are another matter and can change at any time.

Accordingly, Tesla needs to watch carefully what they advertise!

What other car company does this without nickel and diming their customers for every little thing?

Every single car bought off the lot. (As opposed to bought blind.) Think about it. You buy off the lot, you know *exactly* what you're getting.

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After reviewing functional illumination in real world driving, Tesla determined the Cornering Light offered greater functionality than the Fog Light and having both lights was redundant.

It's not redundant. Whoever is doing "real world driving" at Tesla doesn't have a damn clue. (Other evidence: nonfunctional defroster in early models; wipers too slow for severe rain...)

The fog lights aren't that great, but I undeniably have better visibility in fog with them on than with them off.

And still, it would have been fine to remove the fog lights *if* it was done in this order:
(1) remove all references to fog lights being included from the website,
(2) announce that fog lights are being dropped,
(3) notify everyone with non-finalized reservations that the fog lights are being dropped,
(4) produce all the cars for people with finalized reservations including the tech package (with advertised fog lights).

With the factory running pretty fast, this entire process could have taken less than a month. And nobody would have seriously complained -- because *unlike* the current situation, you would not have people who paid deliberately for foglights and didn't get them.

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My vote is that Tesla pulled the plug on what apparently were poorly designed / implemented fog lamps rather than spending the effort to sort things out properly.

Automotive lighting - Front fog lamps

I love the citation of "A study has shown that in the United States more people inappropriately use their fog lamps in dry weather than use them properly in poor weather.", WOW is that ever true here in NC.

Idjits. Why do stupid people have to make things harder for the rest of us.

Although now I'm wondering, since Tesla yanked them from recently produced cars, as one with a Model S with the fog lamps, will Tesla attempt to pull some stunt where a required service bulletin will mandate they remove the fog lamps without my consent on my next service visit. Let the conspiracy begin now!

That would be unacceptable. But I don't think they'd do that. That would require a lot more organization. More likely would be deleting the fog lamp button in a software update. If anyone at Tesla is reading this, DO NOT DO THAT. I like my fog lamps and I know how to use them properly.

 

[mlemke]

Meh

 

[dflye]

Idjits. Why do stupid people have to make things harder for the rest of us.

That would be unacceptable. But I don't think they'd do that. That would require a lot more organization. More likely would be deleting the fog lamp button in a software update. If anyone at Tesla is reading this, DO NOT DO THAT. I like my fog lamps and I know how to use them properly.

If only Tesla was working on an auto-fog lamp feature, similar to the existing auto-headlights feature.

Hint to drivers: Unless you are driving below the speed limit due to poor visibility, odds are you don't need to have the fog lamps on!

Hint to Tesla: auto-disable fog lamps above a certain speed, as they are useless at high speed if properly adjusted to aim at the ground directly in front of the car!

 

[neroden]

If only Tesla was working on an auto-fog lamp feature, similar to the existing auto-headlights feature.

Hint to drivers: Unless you are driving below the speed limit due to poor visibility, odds are you don't need to have the fog lamps on!

Heh. Yeah! That's a good rule of thumb. I was going at 10 mph when the Tesla fog lamps were useful, I believe. And I thought that might be dangerously fast.

In other cars, with better fog lights, I've been on the expressway in fog. Driving at the breakneck speed of... 25 mph. Along with everyone else. :wink:

Hint to Tesla: auto-disable fog lamps above a certain speed, as they are useless at high speed if properly adjusted to aim at the ground directly in front of the car!

Definitely an idea! :smile:

 

[brianman]

Hint to Tesla: auto-disable fog lamps above a certain speed, as they are useless at high speed if properly adjusted to aim at the ground directly in front of the car!

And add the option to turn "auto" feature off when you add said option for the suspension lowering.

And then add a 'todo' for future firmware to fix the bug that you don't remember the setting anymore (like happened with the Day/Night/Auto display setting).

And...

 

[andrewket]

And still, it would have been fine to remove the fog lights *if* it was done in this order:
(1) remove all references to fog lights being included from the website,
(2) announce that fog lights are being dropped,
(3) notify everyone with non-finalized reservations that the fog lights are being dropped,
(4) produce all the cars for people with finalized reservations including the tech package (with advertised fog lights).

With the factory running pretty fast, this entire process could have taken less than a month. And nobody would have seriously complained -- because *unlike* the current situation, you would not have people who paid deliberately for foglights and didn't get them.

I agree with everything you said except for the one month comment. There are still people who finalized in 2012 who will be getting their cars this month. Red and 40kwh cars. I finalized in January and will end up without fog lights.

 

[Panacea]

I agree with everything you said except for the one month comment. There are still people who finalized in 2012 who will be getting their cars this month. Red and 40kwh cars. I finalized in January and will end up without fog lights.

I hear you andrewket...it is like a penalty for waiting for the red to enter production. First the drama regarding Alcantara, then the fog lights and now the cup cinchers. What's left of my car can't come fast enough.

 

[dsm363]

How many deal breakers can one person have?

 

[FlasherZ]

How many deal breakers can one person have?

Your question is a deal breaker, dsm. I'm quitting this thread. Maybe.

 

[teslasguy]

I don't really understand the statement/justification that the cornering lights are a better solution than the the fog lights.
The cornering lights only come on when turning a corner. I use the fog lights most often when driving straight through our development (very slowly, on foggy evenings), trying my best to spot any of the herds of deer that aimlessly wander around in the middle of the damn road. Also, I took a poll of our neighborhood deer and they unanimously voted the yellow fog lights as much more annoying and likely to keep them off the road than the bright cornering lamps. They commented that the cornering lamps just mess their eyesight up and cause them to freeze in place... ala "deer in headlights". :wink:

 

[mknox]

I don't really understand the statement/justification that the cornering lights are a better solution than the the fog lights.

I don't really get that either because the cornering lights were always there, and are distinct from the fog lights. It's not an either/or situation.

 

[SCW-Greg]

Yeah, if they're taking stuff away without notifying upfront, not happy. Not sure what I'll get when mine finally rolls off the line. I plan on calling and asking today if I can pay $500 to have Alacantra roof, how much for the fog lights, and bottle clinchers too. Or maybe hitting up my service center for the last two, when it arrives.

 

[Doug_G]

I don't really get that either because the cornering lights were always there, and are distinct from the fog lights. It's not an either/or situation.

Put on a lawyer's hat for a moment:

What they're saying is they made a promise of fog lamps, and now they're substituting a promise of turning lights. The fact that they were already shipping turning lamps alongside fog lamps is not relevant. It's what they were promising before, and now they're promising something else.

 

[mknox]

What they're saying is they made a promise of fog lamps, and now they're substituting a promise of turning lights. The fact that they were already shipping turning lamps alongside fog lamps is not relevant. It's what they were promising before, and now they're promising something else.

I think that's true from the marketing/promotion point of view, but at debate are some of the responses from Tesla.

JPP's DS writes: "Cornering lamps, have replaced the fog lights and serve a valuable purpose in nighttime driving. The cornering light illuminate roadways, curbs, and other obstacles that may be outside the standard low beam's light path.Cornering lamps will remain a part of the Tech Package for the foreseeable future. For the purposes of illuminating low and wide, cornering lamps are more effective than fog lamps."

Later, JPP gets this response from "Corporate": "Thank you for the note regarding fog lights in Model S. Our design team’s discussion about the fog lights was primarily focused around their usefulness, especially given their functional overlap with cornering lamps. It was determined that cornering lamps offer greater overall functional utility to the vehicle."

I always hate throwing someone's words back at them, but there does seem to be some backpedaling and confusion around the issue. On one hand, there is talk of cornering lamps "replacing" fog lamps, and on the other, they speak of "functional overlap" between the two, and of cornering lamps being more effective than fog lamps.

I still contend they are two different animals and the conversation shouldn't be an either/or. Regardless of how effective either of these two systems are, fog lamps are not cornering lamps and vice versa.

 

[jerry33]

Unless the cornering lights that replace the fog lights are different from the ones on my car, they really don't do anything, and only come on when you're already committed.

 

[mknox]

Unless the cornering lights that replace the fog lights are different from the ones on my car, they really don't do anything, and only come on when you're already committed.

Yep. All my previous vehicles that have had cornering lights came on with the turn signal, and were much brighter than the ones on my Model S.

 

[Panacea]

Hello Elon..just thought you should know that the weather forecast for my town tonight is....wait for it....dense fog!

 

[yobigd20]

Yep. All my previous vehicles that have had cornering lights came on with the turn signal, and were much brighter than the ones on my Model S.

What happens if you don't use your turning signal? Cornering lights don't come on? I like the fact that they come on as you go into the turn instead of relying on a turn signal.

Hello Elon..just thought you should know that the weather forecast for my town tonight is....wait for it....dense fog!

LMAO good one!

 

[William13]

Cornering lights should come on for either turn signal or turned wheel. They come on too late to help me with turning.

I have fog lamps. They are very marginal like most other fog lamps in my previous cars. They are ornamentation.

 

[Panacea]

Cornering lights should come on for either turn signal or turned wheel. They come on too late to help me with turning.

I have fog lamps. They are very marginal like most other fog lamps in my previous cars. They are ornamentation.

That has not been my experience. I have an Audi A8L with front and rear fog lights, which I find invaluable. If the MS fog lights were marginal...the response should be improve them.