Firmware 7.1

[stevezzzz]

I drive the Express lanes on the toll road and I chuckle at this all the time. This weekend, I drove down to Middleburg and Route 50 has sections where there are two speed signs posted directly on top of each other "55mph for cars, 45mph for trucks". Sadly, the Tesla latched on to the latter. No biggie, but yeah, mis-reads are common in my experience.

There's a stretch of I-25 near me where the speed limit is 75 mph, but a sign on the left side of the two southbound lanes reads "left lane min. speed", in a small font, above a standard size speed limit sign that reads "55 mph". You can guess how much of that the AP reads.

That said, I got an update notification via the iOS app yesterday, but I'm a thousand miles away from the P85D at the moment, so I haven't done the update to see if it's 7.1, and I don't know if 7.1 will read this sign correctly...

 

[notAmeenPerson]

Driving with the left arm resting on the armrest and left hand applying gentle pressure just for the torque sensor to know that I am there works for me.

Apparently someone has figured out a fix for the time-based nagging (partial sarcasm).

 

[green1]

Apparently someone has figured out a fix for the time-based nagging (partial sarcasm).

And this is what a timed nag encourages, and this makes it more dangerous, because in a place where the AP really does need your input, it doesn't know that you're not already providing it.

Adding timed nags reduces the safety of the whole system.

 

[Andyw2100]

Of course signs are only half the battle, I frequently get speed limits pop up (usually inaccurate ones) when no sign has been passed. I suspect this is from a database somewhere.

I expect you know this, but will point it out in case you don't.

Depending on how you have speed assist set up, the speed limit sign may be shown whenever you are speeding. From the manual:

--
If you set the speed limit warning to Display (see Controlling Speed Assist on page 82), the speed limit sign on the instrumental panel increases in size whenever you exceed the speed limit.
--

This doesn't explain it being incorrect, but could explain it popping up when you aren't expecting it to. Also, if the system has read the speed incorrectly, this could happen even if you are not speeding.

I also found the following in the same section of the manual:

--
In situations where Speed Assist is unable to detect a speed (for example, speed limit signs and GPS data are not available at the current location), the instrument panel does not display a speed limit sign. If Speed Assist is uncertain that an acquired speed limit is accurate (for example, although a speed limit sign was initially detected, some time has passed before a subsequent sign has been detected), the speed limit sign is dimmed. In both cases, warnings do not take effect.
--

This could be relevant to your situation as follows: perhaps the software isn't especially bad at reading the speed limit signs where you drive, but what's actually going on is that the GPS database being used has a lot of bad data in it. I'm just throwing this out as a possibility. Not making excuses for Tesla.

- - - Updated - - -

And here we're on the same page. The difference is that I'm a bit less optimistic that this will happen.

Yes, I would commit to going to 7.1 if there was an actual ability to fix those issues in a timely manner. But not in it's current state.

I'm only somewhat optimistic that it will happen. But there are things that all of us should be doing to encourage it, or something like it, to happen.

Any time any of us finds ourselves on a divided highway that the system identifies as undivided, we need to report it to Tesla. When we do, we should ask if there is a system in place to correct the error, and when we should expect to be able to drive without limitations on this particular road that should not have limitations.

If the answer we receive is that there is no such system, we should keep asking the questions, and essentially demand that Tesla develop such a system. Getting the information wrong initially is understandable. Not having a way to process corrections to it, which would in effect force restrictions on us on roads that should not have any restrictions is not.

What I'm saying is that if Tesla does not have a system in place yet to make corrections to the system, it is incumbent on all of us to help them get that system in place.

 

[RDoc]

There's a stretch of I-25 near me where the speed limit is 75 mph, but a sign on the left side of the two southbound lanes reads "left lane min. speed", in a small font, above a standard size speed limit sign that reads "55 mph". You can guess how much of that the AP reads.

That said, I got an update notification via the iOS app yesterday, but I'm a thousand miles away from the P85D at the moment, so I haven't done the update to see if it's 7.1, and I don't know if 7.1 will read this sign correctly...

It's probably moot if it can read it or not. Isn't I-25 a divided highway? There is no speed limitation on highways, only secondary roads.

In fact, I've seen it remove the restriction on multi-lane undivided highways, although not in all cases so I don't know how it decides.

 

[msnow]

I'm not in Canada but I have never had a misread of a speed limit sign. I've had it miss one in the fog and one time a tree obscured the sign from the camera by never a misread. Very strange about your issue @green1. Sorry it's not working for you.

 

[Cyberax]

I'm not in Canada but I have never had a misread of a speed limit sign. I've had it miss one in the fog and one time a tree obscured the sign from the camera by never a misread. Very strange about your issue @green1. Sorry it's not working for you.

In Canada a 120km/h signs near Vancouver on Hwy-1 are not recognized at all and the system clearly pulls the old 110km/h limit from the database.

In Oregon about a half of traffic signs are not recognized at all because they use a non-standard font for numbers (it's larger than usual and more "squished").

 

[dirkhh]

In Oregon about a half of traffic signs are not recognized at all because they use a non-standard font for numbers (it's larger than usual and more "squished").

This appears fixed in 7.1. I had it recognize signs that 6.2 couldn't read.

 

[Cyberax]

This appears fixed in 7.1. I had it recognize signs that 6.2 couldn't read.

I'm waiting for confirmation from somebody in Oregon first.

 

[stevezzzz]

It's probably moot if it can read it or not. Isn't I-25 a divided highway? There is no speed limitation on highways, only secondary roads.

In fact, I've seen it remove the restriction on multi-lane undivided highways, although not in all cases so I don't know how it decides.

It may not change the TACC set speed, but if it continues to display the speed limit wrong on the IC, it's not moot.

 

[msnow]

I'm waiting for confirmation from somebody in Oregon first.

You realize Dirk is from Portland right?

 

[Ingineer]

Apparently someone has figured out a fix for the time-based nagging (partial sarcasm).

Yes, adding mass works fine to "fool" the system. To test this, I taped a lead weight to the bottom of the wheel (where it's out of the way). Of course, I did my testing on a closed private road. Please don't attempt this yourself!

 

[dirkhh]

I'm waiting for confirmation from somebody in Oregon first.

Err, where do you think I live?

 

[sillydriver]

It's possible we're all participants in a massive A/B test. Two groups, one with the previous AP behavior and one with new (timed nag) behavior. After some period of time (weeks, months) Tesla will compare the number of incidents as well as the number of pieces of feedback from the two groups.

My paranoia is really resonating with this thought.

 

[dirkhh]

Definite slow down in the roll-out. We have reached 304 entries in the tracker, only 14 of which came today; this more or less matches what we had for the initial 7.0 roll-out (307 - but fewer than 300 reporting in the first 5 days)... assuming we can get a few more stragglers to post their update we'll have an all time high.
If you got your update - would you please post it to ev-fw.com ?
Still no report from China or Japan, no report from a Model X
All models, all VIN ranges (ok, 120xxx is missing and I know a couple of people with brand new cars have received 7.1), but I think this is fairly complete at this point.

If you haven't received it, yet, I'd love to hear about it. (I know, normally we all discourage "I haven't gotten it, yet" posts, but I'm trying to get an idea how complete the roll-out is. Did they reach 95+% of Model S in 5 days?

 

[mikeash]

This appears fixed in 7.1. I had it recognize signs that 6.2 couldn't read.

There's a section of I-66 near me which just got dynamic speed control. This is done by placing electronic signs above the road at intervals. Normally, the signs are blank or display informational stuff, but when dynamic speed control is in effect they display speed limit signs. These electronic speed limits don't look like normal speed limit signs at all. They have a yellow background, they're very pixelated, and they're suspended high above the road rather than being on the side. As of 7.1, my car now recognizes these, which really surprised me.

 

[green1]

Depending on how you have speed assist set up, the speed limit sign may be shown whenever you are speeding. --- If you set the speed limit warning to Display (see Controlling Speed Assist on page 82), the speed limit sign on the instrumental panel increases in size whenever you exceed the speed limit.

The speed limit signs always appear, but get larger when speeding. what I am reporting is completely different, where no speed at all, or an existing correct speed, is replaced with a different speed when no sign at all has been passed. This sign shows "small" unless I'm more than my offset above it when it appears.

I also found the following in the same section of the manual:

--
In situations where Speed Assist is unable to detect a speed (for example, speed limit signs and GPS data are not available at the current location), the instrument panel does not display a speed limit sign

The "GPS Data" is the database chock full of incorrect numbers, and which is responsible for signs appearing on the dash when no physical sign was passed.

This could be relevant to your situation as follows: perhaps the software isn't especially bad at reading the speed limit signs where you drive, but what's actually going on is that the GPS database being used has a lot of bad data in it. I'm just throwing this out as a possibility. Not making excuses for Tesla.

In my case it's both. The car is abysmal at reading speed limit signs (I have had days where I have counted 8-10 speed limit signs that I have passed without a single one registering on the dash) AND the GPS database has tons of bad data in it (hence the speed limit signs appearing when I didn't pass a sign)

Either way though, it's rather irrelevant to me how it gets it's bad data, it's how it uses that bad data. Right now I ignore the bad data, and the worst it does is prevent me being able to automatically set the speed with a long pull of the cruise control stalk and listen to a "bing" as I ignore it's incorrect speedlimit.
But in 7.1 the car actually uses that bad data to tell me how I'm allowed to use AP. So as long as I know how bad the data is, I don't want any part of that.

Any time any of us finds ourselves on a divided highway that the system identifies as undivided, we need to report it to Tesla. When we do, we should ask if there is a system in place to correct the error, and when we should expect to be able to drive without limitations on this particular road that should not have limitations.

If the answer we receive is that there is no such system, we should keep asking the questions, and essentially demand that Tesla develop such a system. Getting the information wrong initially is understandable. Not having a way to process corrections to it, which would in effect force restrictions on us on roads that should not have any restrictions is not.

What I'm saying is that if Tesla does not have a system in place yet to make corrections to the system, it is incumbent on all of us to help them get that system in place.

I partially agree. I want everyone who did go to 7.1 to do this. But I don't believe it's my responsibility in any way to go to 7.1 just so that I can do this, when we don't have any commitment from Tesla that they have any plan to address this.

 

[Andyw2100]

I partially agree. I want everyone who did go to 7.1 to do this. But I don't believe it's my responsibility in any way to go to 7.1 just so that I can do this, when we don't have any commitment from Tesla that they have any plan to address this.

Yes, since it is understood that you're not upgrading yet, I was not including you in the "us." The us I wrote of includes anyone who already has upgraded.

 

[Cyberax]

Yes, since it is understood that you're not upgrading yet, I was not including you in the "us." The us I wrote of includes anyone who already has upgraded.

I'm now feeling obliged to upgrade and start reporting bad mapping data. Thanks a lot.

 

[beeeerock]

Hopefully some other TMC users in Canada who have already updated to 7.1 who drive those roads will read this and report back on whether those roads are correctly identified as divided or incorrectly identified as undivided. If any are identified incorrectly, I would hope the person identifying the fact would also report it to Tesla. Perhaps progress will be made.

For what it's worth, I took a drive a way up the Coquihalla Highway today to see if the 120 km/h signs were read more accurately with 7.1. Answer: No.

I went by three of them. Two were ignored altogether. The third (at the end of an on-ramp) I went by quite slowly, right close to the shoulder. It came up as '20 km/h'. Not overly helpful. My initial impression (based on this test and other observations on other, lesser, highways in the area) is that the identification of speed signs is unchanged, or perhaps even less reliable than before.

Note, I've *never* had a 120 sign recognized properly on any of the segments of the Coquihalla.