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Sorry, they rescheduled to Nov 1 (a day earlier). A bit busy, lost track of days.

No. They unilaterally rescheduled the appointment to Nov 2. I had to reschedule it for Nov 19. Did I say that Tesla enjoys treating customers as *sugar*? Well, I'm saying it again.

Yeah, customers are *sugar* and need to be spit on and abused in any possible way. That's the new motto of Tesla, after all.

You are entirely correct. The earlier purchasers were promised a complete production version "pending validation and government approval". Not a mere "beta".

There is a crucial difference: Kickstarter campaigns are not typically linked to a rapidly depreciating asset. I won't mind so much if Tesla promised me one license for the FSD transferable to any Tesla, whenever it comes. In this case it indeed would have been an investment, not just a scam.

I've done that a bunch of times. Charge to 120+ miles first (takes 10-15 minutes) then move away from a SC stall and park nearby. Keep the car in the "camping" mode. In the morning, park at a SC stall to get a full charge and then sleep for another hour while the car is charging. After that...

This one did: Electric Cars, Solar Panels & Clean Energy Storage | Tesla They promised autonomous door-to-door navigation. This is L5. Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20181223025750/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot This clearly describes an L5 system.

$3000 that were paid to Tesla and that they used interest-free for 3 years.

Bullshit. Damages have occurred already, since Tesla failed to deliver the contracted functionality. Tesla absolutely can technically remove the FSD and leave only the EAP (for which I paid SEPARATELY during the purchase). I have no problems with that. I'm suing to get my money back, with...

Tesla actually did promise me just that (in 2018). Whatever *sugar* is on the CURRENT website has no bearings on what they promised me in 2018.

This actually works in MY favor. There are two ways we're using it: 1. "Reasonable person interpretation" - a normal person would assume that FSD means whatever is described prominently on the freaking main page of the website where they buy a product. 2. Deficient contract - since the contract...

No, I do have a right to the "FSD" that was described during my purchase. I.e. full level-5 autonomy. Tesla will have failed to deliver it by Nov 2.

Not quite. It's a reason to get a refund, though. Lawyers are allowed to help with a filing. I also _can_ file in a regular court if I want to make a big deal out of it, as I opted out of arbitration. She's pretty optimistic about the outcome. It's almost slam-dunk: promises to deliver and...

OK. I started it. Seriously. I have. I hired a lawyer and we're preparing the filing. At my lawyer's advice I filed a service request to enable the FSD features. Once I have a paper trail of Tesla not intending to honor it (as I expect) we're going to go to the court. The service appointment...

The purchase agreement doesn't say ANYTHING about what is FSD. Really. Go and read it. So in this case a reasonable person would think that the description put very conspiciously on the official website, that you have to use to buy the product, is the actual promised feature.

What part of "False Advertisement" you don't understand? Arbitration can be compelled only for the matters that are described by the contract. E.g. you can use it if Tesla fails to deliver the vehicle on time (it's a contract matter). But this is a completely different civil lawsuit against the...

That's not true. If you pre-order something then you can expect it to be delivered within reasonable time. My car is past 80k miles and it's almost 3 years old by now. With NOTHING delivered of what was promised.

I'm actually considering filing it right now. And for sure, I will never buy another Tesla vehicle or any other Tesla-related product.

I don't believe it. My car still with 93 safety rating (because, you know, I actually USE it on mountain roads) still has none. So FSD is still a complete scam.

Nah. FSD simply doesn't work at all in actual world, and all they're doing is trying to weasel out of their obligations by all means necessary. We'll see further rollbacks, once they do the barest minimum needed for the PR. It's what scammers typically do after all.

Curse your but inevitable betrayal!

No (except on grade-separated highways). Hard useless. Or uselessly hard. But definitely useless. Sure. As a toy. I have nothing against toys, mind you. I like buying toys for myself. But right now all the Tesla (company) behavior is rubbing me the wrong way.

So basically useless in actual city situations. You still have to be extra-careful when driving. It's "Smart Summon" all over again.

The benchmark for me was 3 years of ownership. I took delivery around Dec 15, so I can file around that time. Realistically the first hearings would be in 2022.

Well, I said that I'm waiting for January 2022.

That's an extremely unfair comparison. Shopping list apps EXIST right now, while FSD is purely theoretical at this point. At this point there's nothing to wipe or load. FSD doesn't exist and never will on the current production cars. That's why making it transferable to a future vehicle that...

I don't believe that Tesla will deliver anything meaningful for that beta. It'll be another Summon-type boondoggle that I'll use once just to test and then never turn it on again.

I will still have the EAP (i.e. lane change with a stalk). I can't care less about "Navigate on Autopilot".

So your car can now cross from one part of the town to another completely autonomously? Wow.

So you're familiar with internal strategic plans of Waymo? You must be pretty high up in Google's organizational structure!

Where did you hear that Waymo is never ever going to provide self-driving support for private vehicles? First, I do use taxis (e.g. to get to and from airports). Second, I don't use taxis often because I don't believe it's ethical to force people to work jobs that should be automated.

This is not true. They are focusing on commercial vehicles now because their stack is too finicky to give to a Joe Random. Please, stop saying stuff for other people.

It's immaterial. Waymo already works. Yes, in a very limited fashion, but it actually works. Tesla has NOTHING. Not a single unattended autonomous car in actual fare-paying service.

BS. Waymo is actual FULL SELF DRIVING. You sit in the back seat and the car steers itself to destination, with no safety drivers. AP is right now just a glorified lane keeping. No idea.

If you actually studied the matter then you'd know that methane emissions from oil mining and leaks right now are not tracked AT ALL.

That's incorrect. Natural gas RIGHT NOW is as bad for climate change as coal. This is due to methane leaks from pipelines and oil wells. Methane is about 30 _times_ more powerful than CO2.

That was before COVID and with a safety driver, you couldn't take videos/photos back then.

I actually flew to Arizona from Seattle to test the Waymo service. It DOES work. Sure, it doesn't work EVERYWHERE but at least it works somewhere. And at this point I don't believe Tesla _ever_ will provide anything even remotely similar to Waymo.

To be fair, Waymo actually has a service that works right now. Anyone can use it.

I actually helped a guy from Mexico to do that, way back in 2015.

That's not true. You can buy a Tesla and put it on a tow truck and drive it to the destination. Insurance is only needed to operate on public roadways.

Plenty of cars have 450+ range. E.g. Subaru Forrester 2021 has 481 miles range on a full tank. You can also trivially extend it by buying a can of gas.

I love to go on road trips in the Western US and Canada. And right now the charging network is not yet that great. My car is down to 295 miles, and this is just not good enough for at _some_ trips. You're limited to about 130 miles for there-and-back drives. This isn't actually a lot. And a...

At this rate? Yes. He's not changing and is completely irresponsible with promises.

Contracts of adhesion are common and entirely legal. Discriminating against customers based on previous lawsuits is not and it's likely to be illegal. No, it's not. It's not an investment, it's a purchase (or a pre-purchase). You offer your product at a discount to the first customers to...

Holiday update is going to be 🔥

This will likely be illegal in a contract of adhesion.

You are not under any obligations to pay attention to what the page reads. The contract is what matters, and FSD is not defined there. This page can be one of the arguments, but it's in no way deciding. This is a civil case, so the standard is "preponderance of evidence". Again, the...

This is what the court will look at, to determine what a reasonable person would believe. But my lawyer says it's actually not that big of a deal in itself, it's the contract language that matters. But either way, Tesla is highly likely to lose a suit because they have not delivered anywhere...

First, the website said something markedly different during MY purchase in 2018. It was clearly promising full autonomous driving, predicated on regulatory approval. No weasel words. Second, "four walls" clauses cuts both ways. You can't just disclaim all responsibility for anything outside of...