Fatal autopilot crash, NHTSA investigating...

[Blastphemy]

Did he assume the Tesla would slow down?

The truck driver was an impatient old jerk who felt he had the right of way even though he didn't, so he made his sloooow left turn despite the fact that there was oncoming traffic and caused an accident as a result. Whether the Tesla was on AutoPilot, just cruise control, or regular manual operation, what the truck driver did was unsafe and illegal.

That having said, as soon as Tesla owners get it into their thick skulls that AutoPilot is just advanced cruise control, not autonomous driving, they'll hopefully drive more safely than Joshua Brown apparently was.

There's no way the truck driver didn't see the oncoming traffic if he was even half paying attention. But if Joshua Brown had been paying attention at all, he would have seen a truck turning in front of him 1/4 mile down the road and braked - even if it was at the last minute and too late. But no skids marks or any indication that the Tesla tried to slow down. Based on the graphic description of the aftermath, it doesn't sound like Brown even tried to duck once it was too late to stop. Even that might have saved his life.

 

[DrManhattan]

All of us gauge closure rates for other vehicles based on experience. How many of us take more than a split second glace at approaching traffic and decide to act based on those experiences and speeds we are accustomed to seeing. A car traveling 90 is going to close the distance a lot quicker than expected.

If facts prove out that the Tesla was traveling at that rate of speed, you simply cannot hold the truck driver accountable for any part of this accident.

C'mon man, judging speed is part of the decision making process of when to proceed safely into oncoming traffic. Even if we assume the Tesla driver was going 90, the truck driver BARELY left room for a driver going the speed limit. While you might get away with that 99% of the time, you're still putting someone's life into your hands when you play chicken like that.

 

[Ben W]

All of us gauge closure rates for other vehicles based on experience. How many of us take more than a split second glace at approaching traffic and decide to act based on those experiences and speeds we are accustomed to seeing. A car traveling 90 is going to close the distance a lot quicker than expected.

If facts prove out that the Tesla was traveling at that rate of speed, you simply cannot hold the truck driver accountable for any part of this accident.

Autopilot is software-limited to 5mph over the speed limit, which on this road was 65mph. So the fastest the car could have been traveling was 70mph. (unless there were some other Autopilot glitch coincidentally happening at the same moment.)

 

[182RG]

Autopilot is software-limited to 5mph over the speed limit, which on this road was 65mph. So the fastest the car could have been traveling was 70mph. (unless there were some other Autopilot glitch coincidentally happening at the same moment.)

On divided highways with a center median, it's limited to 90 MPH. All other types of roads are 5 MPH over. The accident highway had a center median.

 

[182RG]

C'mon man, judging speed is part of the decision making process of when to proceed safely into oncoming traffic.

So, you're accustomed to gauging traffic closing on you at 90 MPH? C'mon man, I'll bet you're not. At 1/4 mile, the difference between 65 and 90 is 3 seconds.

 

[22522]

On divided highways with a center median, it's limited to 90 MPH. All other types of roads are 5 MPH over. The accident highway had a center median.

Should be limited access divided highways.

 

[Super_Popular]

Very sad.

 

[kort677]

On divided highways with a center median, it's limited to 90 MPH. All other types of roads are 5 MPH over. The accident highway had a center median.

this is not at all correct. on any highway the AP will disengage at speeds over 90 MPH

 

[SpiceWare]

Nice to see this - The Tesla didn’t really crash itself

 

[Tam]

Some comments from Brad Templeton, Google’s consultant:

Man dies while driven by Tesla Autopilot | Brad Ideas

Let me summarize a few points only:

Statistics:

Some in this thread have complained about Tesla statistics and he does too:

"...So that’s like reporting the record of student drivers with a driving instructor always there to take over..."

I myself think that Tesla statistic is valid because that's Autopilot idea: I consider it as a "baby" that needs baby sitting and he considers it as a student drive with instructor's supervision.


Camera:

..."the camera they use sees only red and gray intensity, it does not see all the colours, making it have an even harder time with the white truck and bright sky."

RADAR:

As mentioned by others, it is not just a problem for Tesla but for all RADAR. It "can’t tell a stalled vehicle from a sign, bridge or berm.."


LIDAR:

Where the camera had trouble detecting this white tractor trailer, this is a situation where LIDAR would detect much white better than its normal range of 100 meters (328 feet or almost a football field) but 200 meters.

One football field may be too short of a distance to stop for 90 MPH but at least, with LIDAR, an obstacle is detected and the brakes would fire to mitigate the impact.

 

[DrManhattan]

So, you're accustomed to gauging traffic closing on you at 90 MPH? C'mon man, I'll bet you're not. At 1/4 mile, the difference between 65 and 90 is 3 seconds.

Without question - Yes. I can judge whether or not I can safely make a turn in a fraction on of a second. Maybe it's the lack of left turn lights in LA.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Without question - Yes. I can judge whether or not I can safely make a turn in a fraction on of a second. Maybe it's the lack of left turn lights in LA.

But that's not the point here. Until NHSTA report comes out we don't know the weight/mass of the truckers rig. The truck driver may have been coming into the intersection with too much potential energy to stop and yield. This means he is doubly screwed because he mismanaged his rig.

Regardless there is always going to be a question as to what really happened, other than the obvious. A trucker illegally turned left into oncoming traffic thus causing the accident.

 

[Just a Reader]

Some comments from Brad Templeton, Google’s consultant:......

I myself think that Tesla statistic is valid because that's Autopilot idea: I consider it as a "baby" that needs baby sitting and he considers it as a student drive with instructor's supervision....

Supervised and in very safe conditions (freeway, reasonable weather), while many fatal accidents by human drivers happen in averse conditions (poor weather, snow, poor road, complex traffic situations etc etc).

 

[Az_Rael]

I don't know if this article has been posted yet, but I thought it was an interesting one on the different tack Google is taking on the self driving car vs Tesla and some of the human factors issues they have encountered.

Tesla and Google are both driving toward autonomous vehicles. Which company is taking the better route?

Once behind the wheel of the modified Lexus SUVs, the drivers quickly started rummaging through their bags, fiddling with their phones and taking their hands off the wheel — all while traveling on a freeway at 60 mph.

“Within about five minutes, everybody thought the car worked well, and after that, they just trusted it to work,” Chris Urmson, the head of Google’s self-driving car program, said on a panel this year. “It got to the point where people were doing ridiculous things in the car.”

After seeing how people misused its technology despite warnings to pay attention to the road, Google has opted to tinker with its algorithms until they are human-proof.

 

[Just a Reader]

On divided highways with a center median, it's limited to 90 MPH. All other types of roads are 5 MPH over. The accident highway had a center median.

Unregulated traffic is allowed to cross a dual carriage road with a speed limit of 90 MPH??? This sounds like a very unsafe road design.

 

[Ben W]

On divided highways with a center median, it's limited to 90 MPH. All other types of roads are 5 MPH over. The accident highway had a center median.

Thanks, I stand corrected. Clearly Tesla ought to broaden the speed limit+5 restriction to include any road with cross-traffic. I wonder if they enforce this rule via geofencing, or whether the cameras can adaptively detect the center median (or lack thereof) on the fly?

 

[AustinPowers]

Unregulated traffic is allowed to cross a dual carriage road with a speed limit of 90 MPH??? This sounds like a very unsafe road design.

Absolutely. Have never heard of such a thing either. Imagine that on the Autobahn. Terrifying thought.
I must have been under the wrong impression all the time, I thought the accident happened on a normal road/regular crossing.

 

[Tam]

Absolutely. Have never heard of such a thing either. Imagine that on the Autobahn. Terrifying thought.
I must have been under the wrong impression all the time, I thought the accident happened on a normal road/regular crossing.

There's a real need for infrastructure projects in the US including roads and bridges but US leaders seem not to be willing to make that a priority.

 

[wdolson]

Unregulated traffic is allowed to cross a dual carriage road with a speed limit of 90 MPH??? This sounds like a very unsafe road design.

There are no roads in the US with a speed limit of 90 mph as far as I know. There are some extremely rural interstates that are a lot like the Autobahn that have a limit of 80 mph, but they are all in very rural states like Montana, Wyoming, and South Dakota. One small area in Texas allows an 85 mph speed limit. Florida's highest speed limit is 70 mph and I believe that highway had a 65 mph speed limit.

A witness said she was doing 85 mph (20 over the speed limit) and the Tesla passed her going much faster shortly before the accident. It's speculated he may have been doing 90 mph because that's the top speed that AP will work.

 

[182RG]

this is not at all correct. on any highway the AP will disengage at speeds over 90 MPH

What I said in context was correct.