Family w 3 kids - Choose X or wait for Y?

[sw1008]

A used X may be best. The Model Y may not be big enough for 3 kids and two adults on regular trips.
If you are tripping in it get the long range if you buy used. Be sure to get all the features you want / need.
If auto pilot is desired for road trips then try to get a discounted demo or loaner so you get the latest features.
In either case you need to sit in both and check them out before making a purchase.

The issue with used X is… there are no real occasions here in the EU on the market. What You get are overpriced X models from 2016-2018 starting around 65-70k€. All of them have older technology and are less efficient than the Raven. Getting an privately sold used Raven is fairly impossible actually. The only thing how to save money would be to get a loaner, or a SR but both options are rare due to that fact that we need the 7 seat option. Also SR is in my opinio not future oriented when it comes down to using the car for long trips. So we actually tend to stay with our pre-order for the X - we have scheduled the delivery not to be earlier than April/May, so there is time left, but I feel that we will stay with this decision, even it might mean that somewhere our budget will suffer for some years due to the credit.

we pre ordered because I wanted to make sure we get free SuC. In germany the charging infrastructure provider ionity (which in fact has the largest infrastructure besides Tesla) raised prices to about 0,79€/kWh for nonVW/Porsche/Audi/BMW/Hyundai customers, which in fact is a total ripoff...

 

[Yinn]

Since the Y will only be about 10% bigger than the 3,.

At this point in your statement, I truly was expecting you to say just make your kids 10% smaller...

“Son, we’re getting a Model Y. Time for a diet”

 

[arghx7]

Give it a couple months for the early reviews/Youtube videos to show how much real usable space is in the Y. My wife is from Germany and when her parents came to visit, they went with me on my Model 3 test drive and were surprised how roomy it was with 5 people in the car. They drive a VW Touran van. For you I suspect the Y will be "good enough" to justify not spending 10's of thousands of Euros on an X.

Also one of the biggest concerns about the X is that it has a reputation for having the most problems of all the Tesla vehicles, including problems with the doors.

 

[mswlogo]

Give it a couple months for the early reviews/Youtube videos to show how much real usable space is in the Y. My wife is from Germany and when her parents came to visit, they went with me on my Model 3 test drive and were surprised how roomy it was with 5 people in the car. They drive a VW Touran van. For you I suspect the Y will be "good enough" to justify not spending 10's of thousands of Euros on an X.

Also one of the biggest concerns about the X is that it has a reputation for having the most problems of all the Tesla vehicles, including problems with the doors.

Have you seen the posts lately on Model 3’s. The problems are endless. Hard to know how bad it is with the higher Volume on Model 3. I know there are many cases of problem free Model 3 and X. But the Model 3 is far from problem free.

Model 3
Cracked Roofs
Lots of lost AutoPilot, Regen, TACC shutdown cases
Water in trunk
Ripped under liner
Seems quite a few shutdowns (needing new drive unit or main battery)
Rear bumper collecting dirt and water then falling off
Frozen door handles
Quite a few charging issues needing new inverter.

I’m sure the Model Y being brand new will have some issues corrected and a round of new problems. If you want stable, I think you’re better off with an X.

Better warranty on X too and you can extend the warranty on X but you can’t on 3 (or likely on the Y). Why Tesla does that I have no idea but that is one of many reasons I switched from Model 3 to X. The difference on trips is night and day.

 

[greenboy]

The issue with used X is… there are no real occasions here in the EU on the market. What You get are overpriced X models from 2016-2018 starting around 65-70k€. All of them have older technology and are less efficient than the Raven. Getting an privately sold used Raven is fairly impossible actually. The only thing how to save money would be to get a loaner, or a SR but both options are rare due to that fact that we need the 7 seat option. Also SR is in my opinio not future oriented when it comes down to using the car for long trips. So we actually tend to stay with our pre-order for the X - we have scheduled the delivery not to be earlier than April/May, so there is time left, but I feel that we will stay with this decision, even it might mean that somewhere our budget will suffer for some years due to the credit.

we pre ordered because I wanted to make sure we get free SuC. In germany the charging infrastructure provider ionity (which in fact has the largest infrastructure besides Tesla) raised prices to about 0,79€/kWh for nonVW/Porsche/Audi/BMW/Hyundai customers, which in fact is a total ripoff...

I agree that 65-70k for an X seems like a rip off but on the flip side if you look at S's and X's they hold their value well after the initial 10%-20% decline. So that's why they are a viable option for someone who wants to get into a roomy Tesla soon and have an option to get out of the car within the next 1-2 years without taking a large depreciation hit. For full transparency I bought a new Raven in June 2019 because like you I was shocked at how unreasonable the used prices were and also wanted the full 325 miles of long range X. So can totally relate to the hesitancy to get a used X.

As far as a refresh, Tesla constantly changes prices/specs. In the two months that I was waiting for my car they changed over to Raven drive train (canceled and reordered) and dropped the price by $2k (they honored this drop). A month after I took delivery they dropped the price by another $5k. I went back to look at older order sites for Model X going back to 2016 and looking at base larger battery trims the price per mile of range went from about $370 to $260 in three years. That's to say that with Tesla change is constant. Couple of milestones to watch out for in 2020 is the battery investor day, where they may announce new power train tech, and the plaid mode S/X later in the year. The latter may be an opportunity for certain refreshes for the lower trim S/X.

 

[sw1008]

@greenboy - we would like to hold the car for at least 5-7 years. That will be the time when our youngest will be 12 ys old and the oldest one 17. I believe this will be the right time to step down to something smaller, whatever that in this time will be (maybe a robotaxi ) so I take into account the huge loss of value but like to have at least 4ys hassle free covered w. Warranty

 

[T3SLAROD]

As an owner of a 7 seater ICE Vehicle, I can tell you that once they turn 10 they refuse to go into that 3rd row. I would just get the Y.

 

[mgraff]

But for Primary we have the X and I will never be caught dead in a minivan, especially an ICE one.

I'm happy for you that you have the financial means to afford an X. There is no need to make disparaging comments against those of us who don't.

 

[sw1008]

As an owner of a 7 seater ICE Vehicle, I can tell you that once they turn 10 they refuse to go into that 3rd row. I would just get the Y.

We also owe an ICE 7 seater and have the kids sitting almost always together in the 2nd row, because we need the trunk space, so the point is not about letting them sit in the 3rd row but how to fit them all comfortably in the 2nd row

 

[mswlogo]

I'm happy for you that you have the financial means to afford an X. There is no need to make disparaging comments against those of us who don't.

My distaste for "minivans" (formfactor) has nothing to do with money. I just hate them. I've had MidSize SUV's (6 of them) for a long time (since the mid 80's) Jeep GC's. Some folks wouldn't be caught dead in one of those either. For that matter some folks wouldn't be caught dead in a Model X either.

 

[Yinn]

My distaste for "minivans" (formfactor) has nothing to do with money. I just hate them. I've had MidSize SUV's (6 of them) for a long time (since the mid 80's) Jeep GC's. Some folks wouldn't be caught dead in one of those either. For that matter some folks wouldn't be caught dead in a Model X either.

As someone who loves vans, I completely understand. Minivans are the new station wagons (which I also love)

But in all fairness, SUVs are just taller station wagons. Heck my Model X even says “wagon” on the registration.

And while we’re at it, the new “coupe” style “sedans” like my Model S are just big hatchbacks...or station wagons with a cut roof.

So I guess what I’m really saying is..when will someone make me a real EV Station Wagon that seats 7 so I don’t have to pretend in a MX and a MS? I promise to be one out of the 500 (at most) buyers

 

[mswlogo]

As someone who loves vans, I completely understand. Minivans are the new station wagons (which I also love)

But in all fairness, SUVs are just taller station wagons. Heck my Model X even says “wagon” on the registration.

And while we’re at it, the new “coupe” style “sedans” like my Model S are just big hatchbacks...or station wagons with a cut roof.

So I guess what I’m really saying is..when will someone make me a real EV Station Wagon that seats 7 so I don’t have to pretend in a MX and a MS? I promise to be one out of the 500 (at most) buyers

I like station wagons too, but I never ended up owning one. My Volt is the first hatchback I've ever owned, it sure makes a sedan so much more flexible. It's a darn shame the Model 3 wasn't a hatchback.

The Model X feels a lot like my Jeep Summit. I never owned a "3rd row seating" SUV. And I have yet to unfold the 3rd row in the X. The only reason I got the 7 Seater is for the 2nd Zone AC and larger AC Compressor. So I treat the X like a 5 Seater SUV. I'm tempted to take the 3rd row out because that will allow a spare tire to fit in the lower storage area. The range on the air suspension on the Jeep was similar to air range on air suspension on Model X. But the Jeep started and ended a bit higher. They perform similar in the snow. The Model 3 AWD wasn't so hot in the snow (and not just because of low clearance) and I had snow tires on the Jeep Summit, Model 3 and Model X. The Model X is almost as quiet as the Jeep was on the highway. Model X of course handles way better. Audio Systems between X and Jeep Summit were neck and neck. Jeep did have CarPlay but I don't miss it that much. The harshness over bumps in the X on "Comfort" is similar to the Jeep, maybe a little better. The Model 3 was awful over bumps (both 18" in winter and 19" in summer). I would not even think of a Model 3 or Y without adjustable comfort on the air suspension, after owning Model 3 and X. I convinced myself the Model 3 was acceptable when I had it. But in hind sight it wasn't very good (for my taste). Same goes for snow performance. Model X tows better than my much higher rated Jeep. My Jeep was classified as station wagon as well, not sure on X.

I'd love a smaller Tesla for my wife, but currently the Model 3 or Y just doesn't cut it. Even as a 2nd car. Ideally I want a hatchback sedan, with a quiet smooth ride (air suspension) and drastic improvement in noise insulation for it's price. My Volt is about as quiet as my X. If a Model Y did all that (which I highly doubt), I'd consider it even though it would be bigger than really needed as a second car (behind an X). The closest thing for her is a Model S, but she wouldn't like such a large car and it's a bit overkill.

It's really hard to judge any car on a test drive. You kind of have to live with it a while to appreciate it's pluses and minuses.

 

[sw1008]

Is the suspension and driving comfort so radically less in a m3 compared to an x raven? I had only the chance to drive a 2017 x90d which was with air suspension however I could not set any driving modes there only set the height

 

[mswlogo]

Is the suspension and driving comfort so radically less in a m3 compared to an x raven? I had only the chance to drive a 2017 x90d which was with air suspension however I could not set any driving modes there only set the height

The Raven is different that not only is it adjustable height, it has adjustable dampening. Yes, night and day difference with Model 3.

This is absolutely my favorite option on the X and why I would not buy a used X without it.

 

[Zaxxon]

Is the suspension and driving comfort so radically less in a m3 compared to an x raven? I had only the chance to drive a 2017 x90d which was with air suspension however I could not set any driving modes there only set the height

I also own both a Raven X and a 3, and yes, it is night and day different with the adaptive air. That's not to say that I dislike the ride of the 3--not at all. But it's a 'feel-the-road' sportiness, while the X can be set to either smooth comfort or a sportier feel that's still not quite as aggressive as the 3.

 

[mswlogo]

I also own both a Raven X and a 3, and yes, it is night and day different with the adaptive air. That's not to say that I dislike the ride of the 3--not at all. But it's a 'feel-the-road' sportiness, while the X can be set to either smooth comfort or a sportier feel that's still not quite as aggressive as the 3.

Agreed. On smooth roads (around town and highway) the Model 3 was fine.
But on "coarse" (worn) roads it was pretty bad (which Model X handles well).
But bumps around town in the Model 3 were pretty brutal. But that's the trade off if you want to "Feel-the-road" (you do!!).

 

[Yinn]

Is the suspension and driving comfort so radically less in a m3 compared to an x raven? I had only the chance to drive a 2017 x90d which was with air suspension however I could not set any driving modes there only set the height

The raven suspension is drastically different from the previous version. Much smoother and more isolated than the prior.

The M3 suspension reminds me of the coil suspension on the S. Which I do actually like, but it’s much more of a rough/sporty type ride.

 

[sw1008]

This is the thing that turns us finally to the X. My family and I are very sensitive to road bumps and really admire well damped cars so the air suspension will definitely be the item that separates us from the Y.
What is the difference between auto and comfort settings?

 

[lowtek]

Kids destroy everything .. part of just being kids .. get a cheap long range Y and save your money for a really nice Telsa when the kids get their own cars

 

[sw1008]

No chance… all three of them are Teslarati and want „the rabbit“!
Besides that, they really take care for our car. No scratches from their bikes even we have a very narrow garage.