dhanson865
Well-Known Member
If you are trying to be meticulous it's 240v not 220v. Maybe that's why your power factor numbers are off.
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EV Comparison: Tesla Model 3 Versus Chevy Bolt
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If you are trying to be meticulous it's 240v not 220v. Maybe that's why your power factor numbers are off.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
The point was that if we're going to use an overcrowded SC as a counterpoint to the claimed benefit of the network, then certainly an issue with the alternative is relevant.
I'm not sure it's a very large leap to go from banning PHEVs from stations because of overcrowding, to banning slower charging BEVs from using chargers meant for actual long distance travel. The Bolt, for instance, isn't exactly the fastest charging DCFC capable vehicle out there.
Glamisduner
Active Member
cdub
OG 2011 Leaf / 2023 Model Y LR
Ha! Sure it does. It devalues by at least $10k because of Federal and state incentives. And it devalues because now it is a used car.
Repeat after me... A new car is not an investment. It's a RAPIDLY depreciating asset.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
The bold part is right, of course. However as I posted earlier, I've been pleasantly surprised: EV Comparison: Tesla Model 3 Versus Chevy Bolt
It seems to be holding it's value reasonably well. I suspect part of what is going on is down at this price range there are a number of potential purchasers who don't have enough Federal income tax liability to qualify for the full $7500 rebate. It's not that hard for it to happen and still have room in your budget for a $30,000 vehicle that also has perhaps 80$-100$/month lower monthly operating costs (my monthly cost drop was double of that, but that'll be in the atypical range). So even before the Fed Tax Credit starts winding down on new GM vehicles, the resale prices isn't taking the full hit from that AND extra used car depreciation on top. Plus it's not anything of a lemon vehicle design, right from the start it was a solid car, so you don't have large numbers of owners dumping it and you don't have people scared to buy it used. GM also isn't over-supplying to create a glut of new vehicles. Dealers are being aggressive about price incentives on new vehicles, mentioned in a number of posts above, but it hasn't seemed to overwhelmed resale prices yet? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Glamisduner
Active Member
I always think of them as investments, you invest x amount of money hoping to use it for y amount of time, and hopefully you will get z amount back when it's time to sell it.
some vehicles last longer than others, heck I was just wrenching on my 86 250r earlier tonight!
Bolts are good cars, but they don't have the style and performance of a tesla. They do have a 360 camera, android auto, a hatchback, and a regen pedal that can stop the car.
some vehicles last longer than others, heck I was just wrenching on my 86 250r earlier tonight!
Bolts are good cars, but they don't have the style and performance of a tesla. They do have a 360 camera, android auto, a hatchback, and a regen pedal that can stop the car.
Most people don’t need the supercharging network for their normal use. It doesn’t mean that the supercharging network is useless for them.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I never did that though-I made 0 mention of crowds at superchargers.
So it's weird you're trying to counter an argument I never made.
Good thing I didn't say that, huh?
What's up with people arguing against things nobody actually said?
What I actually said was:
Me said:
So it's not really a "reason" to get the car for most americans, because most rarely if ever would need to use it, since again the mean # of miles driven a day by americans is less than 30... and the median # of miles driven a day by americans is only 10.
Obviously for the small % of folks who routinely drive TREMENDOUSLY more miles a day the SC network is essential and there is simply no substitute. But they're very much a minority of people.
While it's certainly true that the vast majority of people wouldn't use Supercharging very often, it's more than a nice to have. Without it, it's not practical to go even moderately long distances even a few times per year. A friend of mine has a Bolt and would like to visit his daughter in Toronto a couple of times a year, but it's just not practical, so he takes an ICE vehicle.
We drive less than 12K miles per year, but go to Cape Cod 3 or 4 times per year, and again, it wouldn't be practical without supercharging.
The point is that without something like the Supercharger network, an EV is not a replacement for an ICE vehicle for most people.
We drive less than 12K miles per year, but go to Cape Cod 3 or 4 times per year, and again, it wouldn't be practical without supercharging.
The point is that without something like the Supercharger network, an EV is not a replacement for an ICE vehicle for most people.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Sure. But an $8000 price difference pays for a lot of rental car days. Years and years and years worth if you only need to rent twice a year. (or if you already have an ICE second vehicle you need not even do that and just pocket the 8k).
and yet, it is. Because again it's a lot cheaper and covers 99% of the driven miles of most people
The folks on these forums, generally speaking, are not most people.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
I think you make a point. We can’t look at cars from traditional automakers and rely on MSRP.
So the price of the bolt is more like $31k. I still feel a $45k model 3 has much more bang for the buck. It’s kind of like a BMW 340i without the maintenance headaches and the huge gasoline cost.
On the other hand look at the bolt... does it really look like a BMW 3 series or like a Ford Focus?
Now I totally get that some people are more conscious than I am and want an electric car more ethical purposes and also many can’t afford to spend $40k on a car.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
You replied to my post (#77), that was a reply to another poster's comment...in which he gave an example of a crowded SC station.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
People buy the Bolt over the Model 3 because of price. Period. Full stop. With the dealerships willingness to reduce prices, it can be way cheaper. So, if you are after the cheapest mid range EV, you can not easily beat the current Bolt. Of course GM is losing money on these cars at those prices. It's not sustainable. Tesla is not losing money on the Model 3 at this point.
As for the range, I did not think that I would need the 310 mile range of the LR.... Yet last week I took my daughter to a soccer game that was over 100 miles away. After returning home I decided to go to the movies. I used all of the 95% charge I put in. Can't do that in the Bolt....
As for the range, I did not think that I would need the 310 mile range of the LR.... Yet last week I took my daughter to a soccer game that was over 100 miles away. After returning home I decided to go to the movies. I used all of the 95% charge I put in. Can't do that in the Bolt....
I have to admire the attempt at evenhandedness in this treatment between two very unequal vehicles - it would appear that the authors were bending over backwards to present the Bolt in the most positive possible light. While the Chevy Bolt is clearly more affordable in terms of purchase price, likely to be significantly discounted, and almost but not quite as economical in term of charging and MPGe, in every other way, it's like comparing a state-of-the-art product with something that was basically cobbled together to compete with that state-of-the-art product. The problem is that the Model 3 is 1) likely to be more economical to operate per mile and per year; 2) probably likely to depreciate less and hold its value better, 3) waaaay more fun to ride in and to drive. It will be very interesting to see thorough and comprehensive cost of ownership statistics on the Bolt after three years, five years and 10 years, compared to the Model 3.
Even if it turns out that the Bolt gets close to the Model 3 in terms of cost per mile and cost per year, driver satisfaction, safety, and owner loyalty are likely to be separated by a much more serious distance. It's almost inconceivable that a Tesla model 3 owner would go out and test drive a Chevy Bolt and put down a deposit on it, while the reverse seems much, much more probable.
Even if it turns out that the Bolt gets close to the Model 3 in terms of cost per mile and cost per year, driver satisfaction, safety, and owner loyalty are likely to be separated by a much more serious distance. It's almost inconceivable that a Tesla model 3 owner would go out and test drive a Chevy Bolt and put down a deposit on it, while the reverse seems much, much more probable.
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Let me just clarify for the one person disagreeing with my previous post. I'm not bashing the Chevy Bolt.
The Bolt is a fine car. Better than any hybrid from an ecological standpoint, and potentially cheaper to own and operate too. And by all accounts, well made and reliable, esp. for a relatively new product that has hardly been GM's bread and butter.
If it were not for the Tesla Model 3, we might own one. But it isn't really in a position to compete, either for the higher end customer looking for a premium sports sedan, or for the $35k customer looking for the base Model 3 (which admittedly is really late in arriving).
It would be a headline product, if not for the Model 3. The Model 3 is revolutionary, not because it can get over 120MPGe (we beat that routinely and just three days ago I got 177 MPGe running errands in SW FL) but because it is the BEST SEDAN currently being made by anybody . . . . AND it gets 120+MPGe. It's revolutionary because it beats ICE sports sedans at what they do best, and yet is way cheaper to own and operate, and better for the planet, and, if that were not enough, it is to boot, by all accounts, likely to be safer than any other vehicle.
It simply ticks all the boxes. Including looking like the car Ferrari would have made if if made 4 door electric vehicles. That's why it is simply running away and hiding from any other sedan in sales numbers. Kinda just like it does from the BMW M3 on the dragstrip.
The Bolt is a fine car. Better than any hybrid from an ecological standpoint, and potentially cheaper to own and operate too. And by all accounts, well made and reliable, esp. for a relatively new product that has hardly been GM's bread and butter.
If it were not for the Tesla Model 3, we might own one. But it isn't really in a position to compete, either for the higher end customer looking for a premium sports sedan, or for the $35k customer looking for the base Model 3 (which admittedly is really late in arriving).
It would be a headline product, if not for the Model 3. The Model 3 is revolutionary, not because it can get over 120MPGe (we beat that routinely and just three days ago I got 177 MPGe running errands in SW FL) but because it is the BEST SEDAN currently being made by anybody . . . . AND it gets 120+MPGe. It's revolutionary because it beats ICE sports sedans at what they do best, and yet is way cheaper to own and operate, and better for the planet, and, if that were not enough, it is to boot, by all accounts, likely to be safer than any other vehicle.
It simply ticks all the boxes. Including looking like the car Ferrari would have made if if made 4 door electric vehicles. That's why it is simply running away and hiding from any other sedan in sales numbers. Kinda just like it does from the BMW M3 on the dragstrip.
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gilscales
Banned
I think you can thank the 3 and its popularity for the discount you received (thats my guess anyway)
Well that is not exactly true. I have met a couple of people who got the Bolt because it has a much bigger rear access. I had to admit that the space to get bulky items through the back hatch of a Bolt is bigger and there are certainly large boxes and such that you couldn't easily get into the Model 3 easily or at all.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Fair point. Maybe I should have said "People buy the Bolt over a Tesla because of price. Period. Full stop."
It could also be because they want to use snow tires and open their doors in winter.
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