Well the insurance for model S is like 50% higher than for a BMW m550xdm... Even more expensive than for a new M5... Could be due to no opened service center and that they dont understand the car yet. I mean great tesla warranty and now even for fire! Low service needs, few parts that can brake. Very safe. And how the heck do you steal an EV that is always connected... tesla can track and shut it down... ;-) so the insurance cost will need to change in Sweden! Tesla need to educate the insurance companies... ;-)
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mnx
2018 M3P
The other cars have the "vagnskadegaranti". For expensive cars this do a lot for the insurance in Sweden. This is a local thing in sweden and dont think any other countries in Europe have this. All new cars here excluding the model S do have this. It do reduce the insurance cost the first three years. With the high price of the model S here I think it should be included to align with all other manufacturers. I assume they will when establised fully. I think it will reduce sales not having this even if its a detail and the main issue for most people is the high price of the car anyway and not insurance... But the ROI vs a REX is gettin tough...
William13
Active Member
I still don't see the whiplash risk for the Model S. I just sat in the back seat. If the occiput of your head is above the back headrest, the vertex of your head will be stopped by the ceiling ridge. My car has the panorama roof. Fixed headrests are preferred over movable due to consumer incorrect adjustment. Do dynamic headrests move when accidents occur?
So how come I could tilt my head all the way back so I was looking straight up into the roof? My head obviously didn't get the message that it should be stopped by the roof...
If you have movable headrest you CAN adjust them to work. If someone don't that's their problem.
Yes, dynamic headrests move. It's one way to solve the adaptive whiplash protection. Different car manufacturers solve it in different ways. From some it's standard, from some its an extra option. And as the first post says, European cars have had this at least as an option for ~15 years (depending on manufacturer of course).
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Hybris: No it's not unless you use a clueless insurance company. Look here: http://teslaclubsweden.se/forum-6/model-s-1/forsakring-av-tesla-model-s/
So can we please leave the insurance topic in this thread now.
In the original post in this thread, I asked some questions which I think it's time to get back to.
Daytime Running Lights? Can a couple of Europeans owners tell how it works on their cars?
Auto brake. Anyone with good info on when it will be mandatory on new cars in the EU?
Lane departure warning. Same timetable as auto break? Later? Not at all?
Any other things apart from the already listed that seriously needs Europeanizing?
I was thinking about adding CCS charging adapter, Euro type with extra DC-pins but don't know if it's a must or just nice to have.
Daytime Running Lights? Can a couple of Europeans owners tell how it works on their cars?
Auto brake. Anyone with good info on when it will be mandatory on new cars in the EU?
Lane departure warning. Same timetable as auto break? Later? Not at all?
Any other things apart from the already listed that seriously needs Europeanizing?
I was thinking about adding CCS charging adapter, Euro type with extra DC-pins but don't know if it's a must or just nice to have.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
A lot of the things that are being asked for are not so much a "Europeanizing" of the Model S, but a "Scandinaviaizing". I only agree with the back head rests being subpar, but the front head rests are fine (and I'm 1,94m) and a curtain is not necessary when the shelf is just doing fine.
I understand that there is a desire to have a car that can face all the harshest circumstances, and Tesla has reacted to that with the winter package, but for some that is not enough. However, there is only so much that a young car company can do. Tesla has to develop cars for RHD (UK, Australia, Japan) and for the Asian market, after having customized the car for Europe. And even though the Norwegian market is a very important one, tuning the car so that it is even more suited to Scandinavian needs cannot and should not be a high priority for Tesla.
Ofcourse more safety features are great, but if they are standard the car will become more expensive and less affordable. But as options they would be great and I think Tesla will be introducing them over the course of the next 1-2 years.
I understand that there is a desire to have a car that can face all the harshest circumstances, and Tesla has reacted to that with the winter package, but for some that is not enough. However, there is only so much that a young car company can do. Tesla has to develop cars for RHD (UK, Australia, Japan) and for the Asian market, after having customized the car for Europe. And even though the Norwegian market is a very important one, tuning the car so that it is even more suited to Scandinavian needs cannot and should not be a high priority for Tesla.
Ofcourse more safety features are great, but if they are standard the car will become more expensive and less affordable. But as options they would be great and I think Tesla will be introducing them over the course of the next 1-2 years.
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There are around 20,000 Model Ses on the road, mostly in the US. This is a sample size big enough to see in fact what kind of safety it provides in reality. There have been a variety of high-speed accidents in Model Ses, unfortunately, and there is no record of any whiplash injury problem. All the speculation in the world cannot trump real world data.
In the front the seats are not excellent. Not the headrest either. But probably ok for whiplash even if its not brilliant. Hard crash in the back of the car would is probably on of the best tests. The back seems really bad. Small headrests that look more for design than for any practical use. Same here real crash are good but its easy to test and simulate as shown in the Euro NCAP.
Regarding Scandinvia I dont see 90% of the stuff here as Scandinavian things. Those are things available on cars sold in all Europe. We have not talked anything about harsh Winter options etc... Sure Swedish car companies have been leading on safety and innovation that is true. Sure it might have started due to elks that weigh 500kg roam the roads and put sme extremes on safety but all that is as useful in other situations. The Tesla seems brilliant in terms of safety but I truly dont understand the defensive approach by some people on this forum... Why not help Tesla improve a good car rather than go defensive and do the "Im a owner and my car is perfect dont ask for any improvements"... If someone in our family or ourself sit in the back of the Tesla and it gets hit hard by a truck or similar in the back of the car. You get hurt badly by a whiplash... (headpain for the rest of your life or worse)... Will you then think it was smart to not do a real due diligence on this?
Regarding Scandinvia I dont see 90% of the stuff here as Scandinavian things. Those are things available on cars sold in all Europe. We have not talked anything about harsh Winter options etc... Sure Swedish car companies have been leading on safety and innovation that is true. Sure it might have started due to elks that weigh 500kg roam the roads and put sme extremes on safety but all that is as useful in other situations. The Tesla seems brilliant in terms of safety but I truly dont understand the defensive approach by some people on this forum... Why not help Tesla improve a good car rather than go defensive and do the "Im a owner and my car is perfect dont ask for any improvements"... If someone in our family or ourself sit in the back of the Tesla and it gets hit hard by a truck or similar in the back of the car. You get hurt badly by a whiplash... (headpain for the rest of your life or worse)... Will you then think it was smart to not do a real due diligence on this?
Which ones of the the ones listed in the first post would be scandinavia specific?
Please let me know so I can delete them, the thread was started to try to list things not enough adapted to the European market.
But since I'm in Sweden I cannot know what people in Germany/UK/France/Switzerland/etc expect from a new car with a 80-100K Euro price tag. So please, tell us all...
With that said, I can't really guess at which listed items that are specific to scandinavia.
The EU regulated ones should be the same for all of EU. Summer tyres as well I guess.
Problem with the front headrests aren't that they are too low. It's that an active whiplash protection is missing. This is something tested in EuroNCAP so I don't see it as scandinavia specific either... Maybe the trunk to back curtain. But that's in a BMW 5-series GT as well, so...
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Haha. Good one. I don't really think that a 20 year old SAAB and a MS is really comparable.
Compare with for example the BMW 3- or 5-series GT. Last I looked, they had one...
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It's also tested in Euro NCAP tests. That's one reason why that test is on top of the list.
It's a shame it isn't tested by NHTSA, then we would already know...
huntjo
Member
Those Volvo videos are neat. Wonder if Tesla is considering active whiplash protection in future offerings. Probably these active systems occasionally fail, but if the randomized controlled trials out of Sweden show they really do reduce head and neck injury morbidity, I can't understand why this isn't a worldwide mandate.
Probably some patents or similar invloved... And some cost and the "not invented here" syndrome...
Time to revive this thread. Since I now have actually ordered a MS, I'm becoming more and more concerned about some of this.
Also edited the first post somewhat to reflect that some things are not really an issue.
Most concerning to me right now are the tyres.
The ones that come standard on the 19" is not even sold by goodyear at all in europe (not even listed on goodyears european site).
The Goodyear Eagle RS-A can be purchased in europe (have found it in some places), but not the RS-A2.
Are these even legal in the EU? Complete lack of availablity usually indicates something.
Also edited the first post somewhat to reflect that some things are not really an issue.
Most concerning to me right now are the tyres.
The ones that come standard on the 19" is not even sold by goodyear at all in europe (not even listed on goodyears european site).
The Goodyear Eagle RS-A can be purchased in europe (have found it in some places), but not the RS-A2.
Are these even legal in the EU? Complete lack of availablity usually indicates something.
Despite initial skepticism here in Norway, I haven't heard of anyone who are *unhappy* with their Goodyear RS-A2. While there are better tires out there, the RS-A2 are a good compromise with regards to noise, handling, etc. They are not at all so terrible that one can't use them until they're worn out and replace them with something more to one's liking.
With such poor sales in Germany, I am not sure we'll see very many changes coming. It's sort of a vicious circle, bad sales lead to less supercharger installation, which lead to more bad sales, which leads to companies ignoring markets completely. I think the thing that makes it even worse is Elon personally had such high hopes for german tesla sales. Maybe other parts of Europe can make up for lackluster German interest and we'll see some changes made to the car.
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