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EU Market Situation and Outlook

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#1,741
That's a long story, A.
To start with: (company) car's, car mobility and energy use in general are heavily taxed.
Then these taxes are lessened or nilled for specific companies and civilians. E.g. flower growers are way less taxed for their natural gas use than households.
There is a special Dutch tax on cars (BPM) ranging up to € 20K on cars comparable to a Model S (BMW, Mercedes, Audi), depending on CO2 emmission at the exhaust. For Model S this tax is zero.
There is special Dutch tax on using a company car. This tax adds 7%, 14%, 20% or 25% of the RSP to your yearly income. (i.e. 7% for a PHEV, 25% for a normal gas guzzler). For Model S this tax is 0% when purchased before 2014, 4% after that that.
Then there is road tax roughly € 1K / year for comparable cars. Model S zero.
Finally there is fiscal stimulation for company purchases (MIA) in environmentally friendly stuff. For Model S this is another € 2K.

Our tax department's slogan is: We can not make it more fun. Just easier.

Now that's a bold statement, isn't it?
 
#1,742
PaulusdB said:
That's a long story, A.
To start with: (company) car's, car mobility and energy use in general are heavily taxed.
Then these taxes are lessened or nilled for specific companies and civilians. E.g. flower growers are way less taxed for their natural gas use than households.
There is a special Dutch tax on cars (BPM) ranging up to € 20K on cars comparable to a Model S (BMW, Mercedes, Audi), depending on CO2 emmission at the exhaust. For Model S this tax is zero.
There is special Dutch tax on using a company car. This tax adds 7%, 14%, 20% or 25% of the RSP to your yearly income. (i.e. 7% for a PHEV, 25% for a normal gas guzzler). For Model S this tax is 0% when purchased before 2014, 4% after that that.
Then there is road tax roughly € 1K / year for comparable cars. Model S zero.
Finally there is fiscal stimulation for company purchases (MIA) in environmentally friendly stuff. For Model S this is another € 2K.

Our tax department's slogan is: We can not make it more fun. Just easier.

Now that's a bold statement, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Quite informative and interesting, thanks. I find it amazing how different countries approach similar problems in very different ways.

That Dutch tax on using company car is the most difficult to understand. Maybe I do not understand it properly. Your bold statement - do employees get taxed stated percentages or do they get paid extra money, equivalent to stated %?

If employees get taxed on having access to a business car, why would they agree to such arrangement that is to their disadvantage. I am inclined to think that there are some missing pieces of the puzzle that would make such arrangement work for employees. Who bears the cost of a car lease, employee or employer? The arrangement could make sense if employer bears the cost of a car lease, not the employee.

Here in Australia employees get a small personal tax relief when getting their car through various business lease arrangements. Employees bear the cost of the car lease, by sacrificing part of their pay, which is then used by the employer to lease the car for employee use. Such arrangement is advantageous to employees, neutral or at a small cost to a business (administration costs) and at a loss to Australian Taxation Office. There are various arrangements, but the one I outlined is the most common.
 
#1,743
Auzie said:
Quite informative and interesting, thanks. I find it amazing how different countries approach similar problems in very different ways.

That Dutch tax on using company car is the most difficult to understand. Maybe I do not understand it properly. Your bold statement - do employees get taxed stated percentages or do they get paid extra money, equivalent to stated %?

If employees get taxed on having access to a business car, why would they agree to such arrangement that is to their disadvantage. I am inclined to think that there are some missing pieces of the puzzle that would make such arrangement work for employees. Who bears the cost of a car lease, employee or employer? The arrangement could make sense if employer bears the cost of a car lease, not the employee.

Here in Australia employees get a small personal tax relief when getting their car through various business lease arrangements. Employees bear the cost of the car lease, by sacrificing part of their pay, which is then used by the employer to lease the car for employee use. Such arrangement is advantageous to employees, neutral or at a small cost to a business (administration costs) and at a loss to Australian Taxation Office. There are various arrangements, but the one I outlined is the most common.
Click to expand...

PaulusdB: "There is special Dutch tax on using a company car. This tax adds 7%, 14%, 20% or 25% of the RSP to your yearly income."

He did not mean to say that one will get a higher salary. So, one does not get any extra money from the employer. That is not the case.

People who get to drive a company car which they can use in their private time as well (for a few years) are considered to be richer than people who do not get to drive a company car which they can use in their private time. Because they do not need to buy an extra car, and that saves them money (that they do not need to spend to buy a private car), and that makes them richer. That's the clue.

By the way, there are a few people who do have a company car at their disposal, but they have decided not to use it in their private time, so they do not have to pay this "Company Car Tax" at all. They are allowed to drive with it from their house address to their company address and back again. They have to keep an administration of all the distances that they have driven in their company car. This is really silly. But some choose this option.

But then there is the Dutch government. They say: "You got a company car from your employer, and you can use it in your private time as well. So you have an advantage that others (people without a company car) do not have. That's a kind of a salary as well. Therefore, you have to pay tax!!!"

How do they calculate this "Company Car Tax"? That depends on the CO2-emission level of the car, and secondly on ones salary.

Many years ago, all company cars were taxed with the same 25%. Then they decided that people who will choose to drive a car that has a lower level of CO2-emission should get a discount on their "Company Car Tax" (resulting in less money going from ones pocket to the tax office). Therefore they had introduced different catagories with each catagorie having it's own % attached to it.

Before 2014 all Plug-Ins were taxed with 0% Company Car Tax, because the CO2-emission level was considered to be below 50 grams per km. So almost everybody wanted to have their Plug-In delivered and registered before 2014. We saw that in Q4 2013 there were 1,195 deliveries of the Tesla Model S. And all the production of the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV went straight from Japan to The Netherlands, this resulted in 8,730 deliveries of the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (this number includes a few non-PHEVs as well though), and the number of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV deliveries went from 55 in September to 415 in Oktober to 2,766 in November to 4,988 in December. People who got their Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV before 2014 enjoy not having to pay any money for Company Car Tax for being able to drive their company car in their private time for a period of mostly 4 or 5 years.

Other popular cars were the Volvo V60 and the Opel Ampera.

Currently (2015), cars with 0 grams/km CO2-emission (BEV) are in the 4% catagory. And cars with more than 0 grams/km CO2-emission but not more than 50 grams/km CO2-emission are in the 7% catagory. And cars with more than 50 grams/km CO2-emission but not more than 82 grams/km CO-emission are in the 14% catagory. And cars with more than 82 grams/km CO2-emission but not more than 110 grams/km CO-emission are in the 20% catagory. And cars with more than 110 grams/km CO2-emission are in the 25% catagory.

2015:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
7% = 1 - 50
14% = 51 - 82
20% = 83 - 110
25% = 111 or more

Next year (2016) the catagories will look like this:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
15% = 1 - 50
21% = 51 - 106
25% = 107 or more

And in 2017 it will be a bit different again, and this will continue in the next few years.

2017:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
17% = 1 - 50
22% = 51 or more

2018:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
19% = 1 - 50
22% = 51 or more

2019:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
22% = 1 or more

2020:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
22% = 1 or more

Now, how do you calculate what you have to pay for Company Car Tax?
To keep it simple, let's assume that you have enough annual salary to be in the highest income tax catagory, which is 52% (I think that is the case for the majority of the people who enjoy the benefit of a company car).
And let's make the calculation for someone who chooses to drive a Tesla Model S as his company car and chooses to drive it in his private time as well. Let's keep it simple and set the price of the Tesla Model S at 100,000 Euro (options included).

Calculation:
100,000 Euro x 4% = 4,000 Euro
4,000 Euro x 52% = 2,080 Euro
That's the annual total of Company Car Tax for a Tesla Model S with a price tag of 100,000 Euro.
People pay per month though.
2,080 Euro / 12 = 173.33 Euro per month

Now let's see how much it is for a 100,000 Euro car with lots of CO2-emission:
100,000 Euro x 25% = 25,000 Euro
25,000 Euro x 52% = 13,000 Euro
13,000 Euro / 12 = 1,083.33 Euro per month

We can make a lot of calculations for a lot of different cars. But that's pretty much how it's calculated here in The Netherlands.

Any more questions, then just ask.

Cheers

By the way, though it's not officially yet fully decided (but it almost actually is), the Dutch government wants to continue with the 4% catagory (0 gram/km CO2-emission, BEV, Hydrogen) for the next 5 years. I have read though that as from 2019 they want to put a maximum amount of 50,000 Euro to the price of the car. So, if the price of the car is 90,000 Euro, than the first 50,000 Euro will be taxed at 4%, and the remaining amount will be taxed at 22%. But that's not totally official yet!!!
 
Last edited:
#1,744
Thanks Benz. I am glad that some governments are incentivizing zero/low emissions cars through taxation.

My expectation is that similar government incentives all over the world will be quite helpful for ev adoption. It is difficult to understand Danish government tax increases on Tesla next year.
 
#1,745
Benz said:
PaulusdB: "There is special Dutch tax on using a company car. This tax adds 7%, 14%, 20% or 25% of the RSP to your yearly income."

He did not mean to say that one will get a higher salary. So, one does not get any extra money from the employer. That is not the case.

People who get to drive a company car which they can use in their private time as well (for a few years) are considered to be richer than people who do not get to drive a company car which they can use in their private time. Because they do not need to buy an extra car, and that saves them money (that they do not need to spend to buy a private car), and that makes them richer. That's the clue.

By the way, there are a few people who do have a company car at their disposal, but they have decided not to use it in their private time, so they do not have to pay this "Company Car Tax" at all. They are allowed to drive with it from their house address to their company address and back again. They have to keep an administration of all the distances that they have driven in their company car. This is really silly. But some choose this option.

But then there is the Dutch government. They say: "You got a company car from your employer, and you can use it in your private time as well. So you have an advantage that others (people without a company car) do not have. That's a kind of a salary as well. Therefore, you have to pay tax!!!"

How do they calculate this "Company Car Tax"? That depends on the CO2-emission level of the car, and secondly on ones salary.

Many years ago, all company cars were taxed with the same 25%. Then they decided that people who will choose to drive a car that has a lower level of CO2-emission should get a discount on their "Company Car Tax" (resulting in less money going from ones pocket to the tax office). Therefore they had introduced different catagories with each catagorie having it's own % attached to it.

Before 2014 all Plug-Ins were taxed with 0% Company Car Tax, because the CO2-emission level was considered to be below 50 grams per km. So almost everybody wanted to have their Plug-In delivered and registered before 2014. We saw that in Q4 2013 there were 1,195 deliveries of the Tesla Model S. And all the production of the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV went straight from Japan to The Netherlands, this resulted in 8,730 deliveries of the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (this number includes a few non-PHEVs as well though), and the number of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV deliveries went from 55 in September to 415 in Oktober to 2,766 in November to 4,988 in December. People who got their Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV before 2014 enjoy not having to pay any money for Company Car Tax for being able to drive their company car in their private time for a period of mostly 4 or 5 years.

Other popular cars were the Volvo V60 and the Opel Ampera.

Currently (2015), cars with 0 grams/km CO2-emission (BEV) are in the 4% catagory. And cars with more than 0 grams/km CO2-emission but not more than 50 grams/km CO2-emission are in the 7% catagory. And cars with more than 50 grams/km CO2-emission but not more than 82 grams/km CO-emission are in the 14% catagory. And cars with more than 82 grams/km CO2-emission but not more than 110 grams/km CO-emission are in the 20% catagory. And cars with more than 110 grams/km CO2-emission are in the 25% catagory.

2015:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
7% = 1 - 50
14% = 51 - 82
20% = 83 - 110
25% = 111 or more

Next year (2016) the catagories will look like this:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
15% = 1 - 50
21% = 51 - 106
25% = 107 or more

And in 2017 it will be a bit different again, and this will continue in the next few years.

2017:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
17% = 1 - 50
22% = 51 or more

2018:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
19% = 1 - 50
22% = 51 or more

2019:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
22% = 1 or more

2020:
4% = 0 grams/km CO2-emission
22% = 1 or more

Now, how do you calculate what you have to pay for Company Car Tax?
To keep it simple, let's assume that you have enough annual salary to be in the highest income tax catagory, which is 52% (I think that is the case for the majority of the people who enjoy the benefit of a company car).
And let's make the calculation for someone who chooses to drive a Tesla Model S as his company car and chooses to drive it in his private time as well. Let's keep it simple and set the price of the Tesla Model S at 100,000 Euro (options included).

Calculation:
100,000 Euro x 4% = 4,000 Euro
4,000 Euro x 52% = 2,080 Euro
That's the annual total of Company Car Tax for a Tesla Model S with a price tag of 100,000 Euro.
People pay per month though.
2,080 Euro / 12 = 173.33 Euro per month

Now let's see how much it is for a 100,000 Euro car with lots of CO2-emission:
100,000 Euro x 25% = 25,000 Euro
25,000 Euro x 52% = 13,000 Euro
13,000 Euro / 12 = 1,083.33 Euro per month

We can make a lot of calculations for a lot of different cars. But that's pretty much how it's calculated here in The Netherlands.

Any more questions, then just ask.

Cheers

By the way, though it's not officially yet fully decided (but it almost actually is), the Dutch government wants to continue with the 4% catagory (0 gram/km CO2-emission, BEV, Hydrogen) for the next 5 years. I have read though that as from 2019 they want to put a maximum amount of 50,000 Euro to the price of the car. So, if the price of the car is 90,000 Euro, than the first 50,000 Euro will be taxed at 4%, and the remaining amount will be taxed at 22%. But that's not totally official yet!!!
Click to expand...

Besides the monthly amount for the "Company Car Tax" that an empoyee has to pay to the tax office for the private use of a company car, the employer has to pay a lot of money (monthly) as well. Because the company car is leased via a Lease Company. This monthly amount includes BPM tax, Road tax, VAT tax. So the Tax Office is receiving money from all sides!!! They make sure that "The House Always Wins"!!!
 
#1,748
Alright, the Denmark data is out:

According to this, there are "only" 465 Model S for November. Granted, that's massive but sadly also far away from the 2000 cars until year end. Let's see how December goes...

PS: If my math is not off, then the Model S is the 4th most sold car for November in DK. Also, the publisher cautions that the final data from the tax authorities is not in so the data might shift slightly.
 
Last edited:
#1,749
@benz it's very similar in the UK too.

It's classed here as "Benefit in Kind". In other words you benefit through your job by use of a car for personal use, even though it's not a cash payment.

Very similar banding structure.

Worth noting there are two aspects here. 1) the personal taxation but 2) employers tax liability.

1) works similarly. Say you pay 40% income tax (sort of level if you have a co. car), you pay 40% of the value of the car multiplied by the CO2 rating.
2) The business pays 11.2% (Employers NI Contributions) x car value x CO2 banding in addition to the tax levied against the employee.


@auzzie
We also have the salary sacrifice type scheme.

In some ways this works out better, because if your employer offers it, they reduce your salary and therefore don't have to pay the 11.2% contributions.


_but_ only the largest employers can afford to run such schemes in house, and 99% of the time it's through a captive "Salary Sacrifice Provider" who inevitably make a margin on the deal so it's not necessarily clear cut. (Lots of issues of ownership, and residual liability if the employee leaves, etc. )
 
#1,750
SebastianR said:
Alright, the Denmark data is out:

According to this, there are "only" 465 Model S for November. Granted, that's massive but sadly also far away from the 2000 cars until year end. Let's see how December goes...

PS: If my math is not off, then the Model S is the 4th most sold car for November in DK. Also, the publisher cautions that the final data from the tax authorities is not in so the data might shift slightly.
Click to expand...

I think December number will be even higher. But 465 is already the third highest Model S sales number in all of Europe this year, so not bad at all. It is only topped by Norway in March and June. And how things can go over a quarter is demonstrated by Norway in Q1: Jan 71, Feb 321, Mar 1140.

Also interesting is this excerpt from a Credit Suisse note of today posted in the short term thread:

TSLA also said it expects its Model S to reach the top market-share position in Europe for the first time in its price segment and that the company should hit its 4Q deliveries forecast of 17K vehicles.
Click to expand...



 
#1,751
I agree, Hobbes, we could see up to 1500 deliveries in Denmark. Remember that the changing incentives were announced relatively late. The next catalyst for Tesla sales in Europe should then be the model X introduction, in my opinion at the earliest Q2 but more likely in larger numbers Q3 next year.
 
#1,752
hobbes said:
I think December number will be even higher. But 465 is already the third highest Model S sales number in all of Europe this year, so not bad at all. It is only topped by Norway in March and June. And how things can go over a quarter is demonstrated by Norway in Q1: Jan 71, Feb 321, Mar 1140.
Click to expand...

Agree - that's the growth we will need to see. Though to be honest, I was more hoping for a 600/700 + 1300/1400 distribution. In short to get to the +2000 cars from the announcement of the changes to the end of the year, a lot will need to happen in December. I know theoretically it is possible, but I was hoping for a bit of a higher push in November...
 
#1,758
32no said:
I'm not so sure. Iceland and Poland had no shipments at all, Ireland and Spain had 1 each. We are still missing a few markets, but even if it is more than 20, I think that the net effect on the numbers would be to revise down because I think I might have overestimated Hong Kong/Japan/Australia by a couple hundred, and I am still shaky on the UK numbers.

At this point, I don't think we will be getting too much more data before the report. Here is the European chart as it stands (I am using mostapasta's numbers for Jan-Nov):

View attachment 71283
Click to expand...

Slovenia 2014:

12 Tesla Model S deliveries in Slovenia in 2014.
 
#1,759
Thought I would post the link to our wiki/google table again, for people who don´t have the link saved.

Only Switzerland and UK missing for Nov out of the top 14 YTD. Denmark jumped to third place YTD after Norway and Netherlands - my guess is it will be 2nd for Jan-Dec. Total for November standing at 1191, compares to 546 in Feb, 1028 in May, and 1099 in Aug (the 2nd months of each quarter).
 
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