Entire Supercharging Team Fired?

News yesterday is that the entire 500+ person word-wide SC team has been let go. That is alarming. Why would Elon sack the execs and all the employees of this important part of Tesla's business? Could Tesla be selling the SC network off to a third party? Opinions? Other theories?

 

[WARP 10]

Man-child with no control over his emotions.

Hmm. To whom have I also heard that description applied?

 

[terranx]

Example #32 of why Musk needs to go if Tesla is to survive long term. He has clearly led the team to amazing outcomes, but was also much more stable a decade ago. More recently we've seen nothing but rash moves and missteps borne of psychological issues, if not also substance abuse.

A company of Tesla's size needs a steady hand who can also reliably navigate public and political issues. It needs an inspirational leader. Musk has consistently demonstrated inadequacy on all of these fronts.

Teslas are a wonderful machines, and their mission remains hugely important for society. But it's now clear that Musk is more of a hinderance than help toward that mission. His pay package should be rejected and he should be removed from any official capacity.

Honestly I don’t think there’s any chance they get rid of Musk. The board is not independent in any sense of the word.

Best case scenario is his pay package is rejected and Elon leaves. TSLA would probably crash, but probably some auto company can buy the automotive stuff and at least keep us car owners supported.

If he does get paid, hopefully he would be willing to sell off the auto division to a competent OEM while going all in on AI.

 

[fholbert]

This song keeps playing in my head.

 

[CuriousWren]

I think I posted this reply in the wrong forum, but here's my hypothesis:
1) Elon and Tesla aren't dumb, they know that good charging networks are highly critical to high levels of EV adoption.
2) They got almost all NA market to adopt NACS while in Europe they followed existing standards that were getting traction eg CCS.
3) They know that it's a team game (with all EV manufacturers) now to get the supercharger network built out (whether in NA with NACS or in other places in the world with CCS or whatever standards become most popular.
4) Supercharging network is a commodity, and a capital and resource intensive business (high capex to build, ongoing maintenance costs to maintain and deploy, dealing with local regulators for permits, etc). Tesla prefers higher margin businesses and ones with greater competitive moat and differentiation (eg FSD, robotaxi, robotics or hardware businesses with a better moat - eg cars, batteries, energy, etc). Heck in the beginning they said they would operate the Supercharger network at break even and not try to make money off it so they clearly initially viewed the supercharger network as a means to enable people to actually buy and use the cars, but not as a strategic source of profit (because in the long run there isn't much profit because they have to buy the energy from a local utility).
5) So they decide to build the hardware and license it (like recent deals they've done with BP and EG) and let other people build out the boring, low margin, capital intensive business that now every car manufacturer that wants to sell EVs is reliant on. Yes they may be walking away from some profit if they were to eventually try to operate charging as a profitable business (especially to non Tesla EVs) but the truth is these margins weren't durable since electricity is a commodity so charging costs should be very much in line with underlying costs.
6) Maybe they continue to build a few locations where needed, or some of the "flagship" locations that are fun/brand halo like the drive in diner, but the boring old regular "gas stations" they lean on others to finish the job they started because there isn't much interesting business in building out the next generation of "gas stations".
7) I wonder if a weird side effect of this is that free supercharging is only available at Tesla operated supercharges and as the network gets built out to maturity by a boatload of other companies, Tesla's liabilities tied to costs of free supercharging go down as more charging gets done at third party operated charging stations which don't honor FUSC.

This is the best answer in the thread. This is totally what Musk and Tesla are planning to do. Everyone is reacting emotionally but you need to step back and see it from this perspective.

 

[gearchruncher]

This is totally what Musk and Tesla are planning to do. Everyone is reacting emotionally but you need to step back and see it from this perspective.

And the best way to achieve all of this is to lay off every single person on the supercharging team with a midnight email, including a smart director, instead of using at least some of them to change to this new path? Like, at least keep the ones that know how to make the superchargers you are planning on manufacturing and licensing? Or the ones that can manage the NACS standard and interoperability? Or a few to make the "flagship" locations? Or even just tell them in person like a person with any shred of empathy?

No, fire them ALL via email on a Monday night with no warning and start over.

That's what makes this look illogical and questionable and and impulsive not well thought out, and that's doubled down by Elon's useless follow up tweet and the fact that he's pissed that people found out this is happening. If this were planned out, he could just say "We changed the world with NACS, which met our mission, now we leave it up to others to build the next 100,000 DC fast chargers. We appreciate the amazing people that made the best charging network in the world happen." But he can't say that because that would mean someone at Tesla besides Elon got credit for something.

I'm liking the theory that this is just all Elon rage over the fact that Motor Trend listed Rebecca as #2 in their 2024 industry power list and Musk at #50, probably doubled by his Misogyny for women with power like how he hates McKenzie Scott for donating money.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-motortrend-power-list/

 

[Nack]

IMHO it doesn't bode well. This "feels" like Musk cost cutting for the sake of cost cutting without proper due diligence. At risk are all, ALL, of the contracts signed over the past year from almost all major automotive manufacturers to switch over to the J3400 standard and to gain access to the Tesla SC network. I'm certain there are protective contract clauses, for both Tesla and the contracting party, that are likely violated due to these actions. Just my two cents of course, but there will almost certainly be downstream consequences for the actions taken today if they are actually true. Musk can do whatever he wants, but legal contracts are legal contracts also. We could potentially see lawsuits against Tesla for this action alone - given other manufacturers are spending real money to convert over to the J3400 standard plugs in their vehicles, and have made commitments to their customer bases to gain access to a Tesla SC network that, for all intents and purposes, no longer has any employees left to support it. Get out your popcorn folks, it's going to be fun to watch!

I keep seeing references to the J3400/NACS connector. I don't think people realize this does not really have much to do with Tesla anymore. They allowed others to use the plug shape/connection interface in North America (Europe still uses CCS2 as they have 3 phase). Even if there were no superchargers tomorrow for some reason, the whole thing could still exist without Tesla. Its just a plug interface. The communication interface is essentially the same as CCS.

A lot of the media and people get this confused, but NACS/J3400 is not referring to Tesla's Superchargers. You can basically get the same chitty service you get now from the other brands, now with a smaller connector . It works better for people who have non-Teslas though as they get access to more chargers.

 

[ucmndd]

Everyone is reacting emotionally

Most notably Musk.

This has ZERO tells or hallmarks of a thought-out plan. It’s pure emotional reaction from someone with increasingly unhealthy and unhinged emotions.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Also comes across as bullshit since he just fired everyone who would be relevant towards maintaining that uptime and expansion.

Exactly. Not sure how existing locations are getting expanded (and who decides which location and when) and uptime/maintenance organized with the entire supercharger team being canned….

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I keep seeing references to the J3400/NACS connector. I don't think people realize this does not really have much to do with Tesla anymore. They allowed others to use the plug shape/connection interface in North America (Europe still uses CCS2 as they have 3 phase). Even if there were no superchargers tomorrow for some reason, the whole thing could still exist without Tesla. Its just a plug interface. The communication interface is essentially the same as CCS.

A lot of the media and people get this confused, but NACS/J3400 is not referring to Tesla's Superchargers. You can basically get the same chitty service you get now from the other brands, now with a smaller connector . It works better for people who have non-Teslas though as they get access to more chargers.

Yeah… that’s a terrific selling point for Tesla’s and EVs. No need for superchargers - just use dysfunctional stalls with lot of broken stalls from some obscure third party provider to juice up your NACS vehicle. Jeeze. I guess if you want to boost hybrid sales more…

 

[gearchruncher]

I don't think people realize this does not really have much to do with Tesla anymore. They allowed others to use the plug shape/connection interface in North America (Europe still uses CCS2 as they have 3 phase). Even if there were no superchargers tomorrow for some reason, the whole thing could still exist without Tesla. Its just a plug interface. The communication interface is essentially the same as CCS.

Yeah we know that.

But the original assumption was that Tesla worked on making NACS a standard so they would be getting MORE revenue by having their supercharger network support NACS, allowing them to collect revenue from non-Tesla vehicles. That charging would be one of their revenue sources, and one of the ways they supported their mission statement of advancing sustainable transportation no matter what vendor made the car.

Now it appears that their goal was actually to get other chargers to support NACS so that they could just wash their hands of charging completely while at least having their cars supported by future commercial chargers.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

And the best way to achieve all of this is to lay off every single person on the supercharging team with a midnight email, including a smart director, instead of using at least some of them to change to this new path? Like, at least keep the ones that know how to make the superchargers you are planning on manufacturing and licensing? Or the ones that can manage the NACS standard and interoperability? Or a few to make the "flagship" locations? Or even just tell them in person like a person with any shred of empathy?

No, fire them ALL via email on a Monday night with no warning and start over.

That's what makes this look illogical and questionable and and impulsive not well thought out, and that's doubled down by Elon's useless follow up tweet and the fact that he's pissed that people found out this is happening. If this were planned out, he could just say "We changed the world with NACS, which met our mission, now we leave it up to others to build the next 100,000 DC fast chargers. We appreciate the amazing people that made the best charging network in the world happen." But he can't say that because that would mean someone at Tesla besides Elon got credit for something.

I'm liking the theory that this is just all Elon rage over the fact that Motor Trend listed Rebecca as #2 in their 2024 industry power list and Musk at #50, probably doubled by his Misogyny for women with power like how he hates McKenzie Scott for donating money.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-motortrend-power-list/

Plus … what kind of talent with other options is now keen on joining Tesla at the moment? Getting canned overnight via email and committing to hardcore hours for a manchild CEO while the stock options aren’t exactly what they used to be in terms of value growth?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I know, no one else will say this, good job Elon, I know this was a tough decision of many you make everyday. Keep up the cost cutting and you will survive, this next year is going to suck. Between us; I would move the Fremont factory too, but not to Austin, I would move it East (SC,TN, or South Western VA).

I worked in and around Black and Veatch overseas, they are an impressive engineering/ design outfit that has done work in some pretty dicey places around the globe. I bet a some of the Tesla team gets picked due to B&V's expanding electrification strategy, if that is in fact accurate information. I wish I could buy their stock, but they are employee owned. They bought Bird Electric last May to help expand the growing demand for infrastructure and resiliency in electrification which is an expanding market. They also have another firm called Diode Ventures, which does data center infrastructure, another massive electrification market.

To the employees impacted, you worked for Tesla, you can pretty much write your ticket to any job you want, we all know it's a challenging environment, the experience on your resume will carry you a long way in industry. I've been through multiple layoffs and it sucks emotionally, but in the end it advanced my career and made me an MVP in expanding roles.

I would apply directly with B&V and DV and others in this space, you will probably get hired as electrification is a rapidly expanding field 13% YoY and they need your expertise and damn you worked for one of the fastest growing, disruptive, electrification firms in the world.

Advice, stay away from bad mouthing your old company and leadership, unlike some of the low emotional quotient (EQ) posts here, do forgive us we are on a car forum, both the company and the leadership are highly respected and have a brand cachet that will survive well into the future. You guys are the future wherever you go, best strong, be bold and lead, keeping the naysayers out of your circle, they will just bring you down. We are all cheering for what you have done and what you will do in the future. Peace out...

 

[Transformer]

Is the CCS retrofit finally available for older Teslas to use 3rd party NACS chargers?

 

[GHammer]

Is the CCS retrofit finally available for older Teslas to use 3rd party NACS chargers?

It's available for mid 14's and newer. Earlier than that requires a different wiring harness for the first generation onboard charger. The tech that installed mine was pretty sure they weren't going to make it available for those cars.

 

[gearchruncher]

I know, no one else will say this, good job Elon, I know this was a tough decision of many you make everyday.

Care to share why this was a tough, but good decision for Tesla and how this will make it a better company in the long term?

 

[wayner]

I think stuff like this is not overnight and certainly done in isolation. IRL it takes weeks if not months of prep work requiring senior level agreements. Elon Musk is not Cobra Commander nor Palpatine despite the media narratives.
I agree that firing Supercharger dept makes little sense. However I think there is a roadmap for SC (and other Tesla futures) with certain levers moved upon specific milestones achieved. My brain is too small to figure that one out.

Gonna wait and see...

Elon fired a huge proportion of the Twitter staff within days of taking over. He didn't have weeks or months of prep work when he did that. And it seems that he didn't give people proper severance and has been subject to lawsuits.

 

[Dear_OP]

Elon fired a huge proportion of the Twitter staff within days of taking over. He didn't have weeks or months of prep work when he did that. And it seems that he didn't give people proper severance and has been subject to lawsuits.

Musk has been complaining and waffling about Twitter's value for months. No doubt negotiations were made to finalize the buyout and laying off a bunch of people was in the playbook when he entered the doors of 1355 Market Street in SF. Stuff like this is not a whim. I don't buy that.

 

[CarGo]

IMHO it doesn't bode well. This "feels" like Musk cost cutting for the sake of cost cutting without proper due diligence. At risk are all, ALL, of the contracts signed over the past year from almost all major automotive manufacturers to switch over to the J3400 standard and to gain access to the Tesla SC network. I'm certain there are protective contract clauses, for both Tesla and the contracting party, that are likely violated due to these actions. Just my two cents of course, but there will almost certainly be downstream consequences for the actions taken today if they are actually true. Musk can do whatever he wants, but legal contracts are legal contracts also. We could potentially see lawsuits against Tesla for this action alone - given other manufacturers are spending real money to convert over to the J3400 standard plugs in their vehicles, and have made commitments to their customer bases to gain access to a Tesla SC network that, for all intents and purposes, no longer has any employees left to support it. Get out your popcorn folks, it's going to be fun to watch!

I get what you are saying, but after looking at their filings for clues on what Tesla gains from these contracts, honestly I do not see any. If Tesla is truly giving away the keys to SC and getting nothing in return, then I am not sure how other parties can sue Tesla.

My original thought that I posted when Tesla announced the Ford deal was that these automakers would build out their own charging networks, perhaps at their dealerships because they are everywhere and open to everyone. Since then I haven't seen Ford build anything, but Rivian is opening up their chargers to all EVs. Yes it is a measly 400 chargers, but it is a start. So with the firing, Tesla may be done with their network and it is up to the rest of the automakers to contribute.

 

[ucmndd]

Musk has been complaining and waffling about Twitter's value for months. No doubt negotiations were made to finalize the buyout and laying off a bunch of people was in the playbook when he entered the doors of 1355 Market Street in SF. Stuff like this is not a whim. I don't buy that.

It kinda blows my mind that there are still people vehemently defending this as calculated and logical.

 

[ucmndd]

I get what you are saying, but after looking at their filings for clues on what Tesla gains from these contracts, honestly I do not see any. If Tesla is truly giving away the keys to SC and getting nothing in return, then I am not sure how other parties can sue Tesla.

My original thought that I posted when Tesla announced the Ford deal was that these automakers would build out their own charging networks, perhaps at their dealerships because they are everywhere and open to everyone. Since then I haven't seen Ford build anything, but Rivian is opening up their chargers to all EVs. Yes it is a measly 400 chargers, but it is a start. So with the firing, Tesla may be done with their network and it is up to the rest of the automakers to contribute.

I agree with this. There's no way Tesla signed contracts with all these other manufacturers that compel them to keep running the network or expanding it in any way.