This is absolutely true. But why go through the fake "poll," and the business about a compliance committee? Just unban him and see what happens, since that was the intent from the first.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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Yeah, right, sorry that I didn't make it clear I was replying to the last sentence of your post in why a private company wouldn't act as judge and jury ... Twitter did ban Trump for using Twitter to foster an insurrection. For some reason Musk didn't agree with that. Perhaps he thought an insurrection was a "good thing".
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
That's a matter of perspective. I don't see the poll as fake. Easily manipulated if someone wanted to, perhaps.
Regardless, it gives Elon complete cover from everyone except the conspiracy theorists ("Oh, he was going to do this regardless. It was all just a sham!")
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
What 'circumstances" changed between when Elon promised to form an independent council before making any major reinstatements, and today when he did the opposite?
OK, fake might not be the best term, it's just shorthand for "wildly inaccurate from any sort of scientific perspective, to the point of being laughable and therefore not to be taken seriously or used to make any thoughtful decision."
I don't see how it gives him any cover at all, whether it be from conspiracy theorists or the genuinely curious.
It was just bad.
And you forgot to address the oversight committee that he said he would engage before addressing the Trump issue. Gone with the wind.
I think that's irrelevant for the very reasons you mention. Trump didn't ask to come back, and he's not coming back. I simply don't see a net positive gain for twitter in how Trump was unbanned.
What's disturbing about Trump's unbanning was how it happened. The haphazard method of it doesn't sit well with either a large part of the userbase of twitter nor the advertisers. It's just one example of many, and more examples will pile on as time goes on.
The real story being played out is that Elons vision of twitter doesn't align well with a largely ad supported business model. The move quick and break things model doesn't work well with an ad supported revenue either. There has to be consistency, and clarity of the rules being applied.
Elon knows advertisers are going to be apprehensive so his plan is to make up for the short fall with a subscription based model, but this hasn't been proven out.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I didn't see the oversight committee - but I'll just point this out and we should all keep it in mind when trying to "predict" or "understand" Elon's behavior:
Lots of people here want to pick certain quotes from him, and hold him fast to it like it is part of Moses and the 10 Commandments.
Honestly, this is Elon's show. He owns this thing now, lock, stock, and barrel. And if he wants to change his mind, well, he can and he's not beholden to anyone about it.
My read: Elon was calling out Trump with the poll, and allowing him back on the platform. Taking the wind out of Trump's sails (and some of his base). They can't harp on about how Trump is banned from Twitter, but Trump is now invested (literally and emotionally) in his social media platform, a competitor.
Elon just cut that social media platform off at the knees.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
The real problem is that facts don't seem to matter for Trump and many of his followers (and many other people.) Half the country has succumbed to conspiracy theories and any data to the contrary is lies spread by the [deep state, liberal media, evangelicals, proud boys, Q anon, Antifa, Tesla Fanboys, Big Auto...]
That may be the practical effect. Again, though, why the shenanigans? "Just do it" gets the same result. And doesn't come across as wacko.
It is known in the industry as ‘user engagement’.
With bots as the primary users.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Calling people out for false claims?
Yup.
No, you claimed that:
The data was bad
AND
I knew it was bad.
Both are factually untrue-- so I asked you to try supporting these claims we BOTH know are untrue by either SHOWING the data was bad, or providing better data.
Which you seem to admit you can't do either of.
Then I pointed out that the complaints you DID give about the data showed you hadn't actually read it, or looked at its posted methodology.
Which made it even more clear your original claims were untrue.
If you get mad when people point out your claims are false, try making less false claims?
I mean, someone else just told us FACT CHECKING untrue claims is a GREAT thing, so I'm just helping out!
I did.
That's literally what the link I provided shows. It shows problems are 10x-30x more in the last 24 hours than the average # of issues in the last 1 full year specifically.
And yesterdays 24 hour report (which I also linked here at the time) showed it was 10x-40x more in the 24 hours that covered than the average for the last 1 full year.
If you didn't understand it, even after I've explained it twice now, that's kinda on you.
This is the second time you've claimed their data isn't good- while failing to provide any better data.
Or providing any evidence at all of their data not being good. Please show us the "bad track record" you claim.
Dude. This was explained repeatedly in the thread previously.
With links from twitter themselves discussing this feature years ago.
Even the "new" name isn't new... Community notes was the original name from years ago before they changed it to birdwatch in early 2021.
Elon just changed it back to the original name, and now everyone is pretending it's a "new feature" for some reason.
But since you missed the last 10 times it was documented here, here ya go!
That's the official twitter account of the community notes feature.
Showing you a mockup, from years ago, with that original name for the feature.
You can also scroll down the post history and see stuff from as early as January 2021 (which was roughly when the feature got the name birdwatch- and was already in use on twitter then, nearly 2 years ago)
It.
Is.
Not.
New.
Not even the name.
Did you try maybe watching him lying on literally any other platform where he was constantly, heavily, fact checked and nobody cared?
Appears not.
PolitiFact | Donald Trump
PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.
www.politifact.com
That's nearly 1000 different fact checks on him from just one example, very well known, source.
BTW didn't see it mentioned but looks like Trump isn't the only unban happening-
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And the advertisers aren't beholden to Twitter either. But the bigger issue here is that if he ever comes forward and says that he'd never promote CCP propaganda or remove CCP dissidents from the platform in exchange for a permit for the Shanghai factory, I'd believe what comes out of his mouth for exactly 0 seconds.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
It's not about Trump being unbanned, it's about what this means for Elon keeping his word and running twitter by a fair and unbiased independent council vs just doing what he wants for his political friends - essentially making Twitter exactly the biased agenda platform that he pretended he wanted to get rid of in favor of a well behaved town hall for moderates
As I explained before, I wouldn't believe anything Elon says. Before, I never believed him when he gave engineering schedules (i.e. "We'll have FSD ready next year") but what this has shown is that he can't even keep promises where there's literally no reason he wouldn't be able to do it. He can't claim that the project hit a snag or there was some unforeseen issue in this case. He's just untrustworthy, full stop.
"Discussing" is not deploying, obviously. Again, the Wired article states: "...Birdwatch [experiment] began last year but was deployed on Twitter in October, weeks before Musk took over." I'd call that a new feature.
Show us evidence that it was applied to Trump, not just discussed, ever before.
Show us evidence that "nobody cared." And Politifact is obviously not the same platform where he did the lying. A tweet with the fact-check right below it (allowed by the new feature) is obviously different.Did you try maybe watching him lying on literally any other platform where he was constantly, heavily, fact checked and nobody cared?
PolitiFact | Donald Trump
PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Elon claims Twitter is over run by bots. Elon puts up a 'poll' that can easily be manipulated by bots. Elon proclaims 'the people have spoken' and holds up the poll as evidence. Hmm.... anything wrong with this picture? The poll was certainly real, as real as it was worthless. Elon knows it was worthless and knew it would be when he posted it. What are the choices here?
- Elon is totally clueless about the above
- Elon knew about the above and decided to use the poll.
Have you read what you write? Yes. Words matter. The truth maters. If the CEO of a company says something, people have every right to hold him at his word. What is so incredibly baffling is how people feel so compelled to make excuses. 'he didn't really mean that' 'Technically that's no true in Uzbekistan so he didn't lie' 'I'm sure he really did do what he said, there's just no evidence.'
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Yeah, but not that long ago a lot of what he said about his GOALS was clear, and brilliantly thought out, and sincere.
We're making a sports car, with an existing chassis and lithium cells. Then we're making a big sedan with custom purpose-built chassis and new cells with better chemistry. After that we'll make a medium size mainstream car, gradually pushing the price down with factory automation and reduction in total parts count with mega-castings. We'll back the cars with a global in house charging network for distance travel..... on and on.
In contrast his Twitter thing gets re-spun daily, with entire founding principles and promises discarded daily - he promised free speech absolutism, then immediately started banning people who's parodies annoyed him. He appears to have abandoned free speech completely - embracing tons of very aggressive moderation policies which have nothing to do with federal law thresholds. And now on a whim, he tosses his promise of an independent council before any major reinstatements because... he wants to, and maybe he's decided to just put the big ones to an unvetted vote....
It would be vastly simpler for him to drop the act, and just confess - Twitter is his $44B revenge on actions and politics he personally disagrees with - he has no interest in a civil town hall, nor fair and unbiased moderation. His friends and pet causes will get special treatment - ironically making the new Twitter exactly what he claims he was offended by in the old one.
Exactly. ALL he had to say, from the very beginning, is "I own Twitter, and I'm going to do what I want with it. Don't like it? Too bad." And he wouldn't have trashed his reputation as much as he has now.
It appears that this guy didn't get the memo: No sensible posts allowed in this thread. How dare he post something sensible! Let's cancel him.
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