Elon & Twitter

[bkp_duke]

The poll gives him zero cover. If anything it enrages the left because it trivializes the issue. Personally I could care less if Trump is in Twitter but a poll is absolutely the wrong way to do it.

My guess here, nothing concrete - but I suspect Elon WANTS to enrage both the far left and the far right. He's said it's the 80% in the middle he wants Twitter to cater to. His decision to not let Alex Jones back on didn't sit well (but has gotten far less coverage from MSM).

 

[ElectricIAC]

The poll gives him zero cover. If anything it enrages the left because it trivializes the issue. Personally I could care less if Trump is in Twitter but a poll is absolutely the wrong way to do it.

He doesn’t need cover. It’s his company to run as he sees fit — He sees fit to return platform to a bonafide presidential candidate for 2024.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Down-votes from the community of verified humans, not bots.

Elon's plans are pretty interesting if you listen to what he actually says.

Have you been to TikTok where posts and accounts are constantly cyber-bully-banned by fleets of false-violation reporters who gang up on perfectly legit posters who just express views that a few don't happen to like?

It will be incredibly hard to police a community-downvote system to prevent this syndrome. It typically takes a huge fleet of human supervisors to sift the bogus violation reports from the bullying and crap. It's hard work, labor intensive and has to be constantly done... All of which Twitter had, before most of them were fired.

I don't think Elon's passion for automation and lack-of-employees will be capable of making a functional downvote system that won't immediately be abused. We've seen how wrong his ideas were with paying $8 for a verified account name with no human vetting. This will go exactly the same.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Have you been to TikTok where posts and accounts are constantly cyber-bully-banned by fleets of false-violation reporters who gang up on incredibly legit posters who simply express views that a few don't happen to like?

It will be incredibly hard to police a community-downvote system to prevent this syndrome. It typically takes a huge fleet of human supervisors to sift the bogus violation reports from the crap. It's hard work, labor intensive and has to be constantly done... All of which Twitter had, before most of them were fired.

I don't think Elon's passion for automation will be capable of making a functional downvote system that won't immediately be abused. We've seen how wrong his ideas were with paying $8 for a verified account name with no human vetting. This will go exactly the same.

Twitter isn’t Reddit though.

 

[MC3OZ]

What almost everyone seems to get wrong about the 1st amendment is it applies to the GOVERNMENT not suppressing free speech.

Has just about nothing to do with what a private company decides is proper conduct on a message board a wesite or an app.

This is why I've constantly mocked the free-speech-absolutists. Yes, you CAN do unlimited free speech on a platform if you want - and it's been done. It currently exists in the form of 8chan. Go have a look - THAT is unlimited free speech with only the barest effort to keep it within legal limits. And it's a cesspool. It's awful.

In contrast, right here - THIS message board has LOTS of human moderators who work REALLY hard enforcing all kinds of rules that greatly restrict free speech. I've had posts quarantined (justifiably I may add) for "Excess Snippiness". I kid you not. And guess what? This place is a pretty decent place to talk about stuff - most opinions are welcomed, moderates can find a place that feels comfortable and that is accomplished thru a lot of VERY NON FREE SPEECH policies. I think the whole concept of organizing around "free speech" as a principle is broken for an online town hall.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned moderation?

You will note moderation here is rightly based on what you post, not who you are, only repeat offences get you banned.

Banning Trump was the right call when it was done, I voted against him being "allowed" back on.

But my argument was that he was never going to come back, "allowing" him back is mostly symbolic, and if he did come back, it is up to moderation to reign in his worst excesses.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

I must have missed people saying something else about H1B holders. That's definitely what is meant by "viable choice". The choice you have is between getting kicked out of the country if you don't find a job in 60 days or continuing to be employed by Elon Musk. If you're an intelligent rational person, as most H1Bs are, your only viable choice is to stay employed by Elon Musk.

Quote them.

I totally agree -despite being founded on the decent goals of bringing in skilled people to the US which were otherwise lacking, the H1B system's details make it incredibly close to an indentured-servant mechanism where foreign workers are bound to their corporate sponsors and must accept whatever said sponsor demands or be sent home. It's unfortunate. Some companies do treat their H1 staff well, but it is certainly not required.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

The poll gives him zero cover. If anything it enrages the left even more because it trivializes the issue. Personally I could care less if Trump is in Twitter but a poll is absolutely the wrong way to do it.

The poll is all about owning the libs and thumbing their nose.

He has a right to let Trump back as Twitter ceo. He could have released a mature sober statement before doing it but that would not achieve maximum agitation of the libs and that’s all this is really about

Here I'd give Elon credit that this WAS an intentional stunt to enrage the left... which is kinda what he's up to now that Twitter as a healthy business is wrecked. If he overpaid to own the libs, he will at least reallly own them. Alas showing that he has no intention of getting rid of political bias and favoritism he claimed were the problem at Twitter he now runs that system.

 

[DrGriz]

Because he wanted to.

Thanks! I never thought of that!!!

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Did you miss the part where I mentioned moderation?

You will note moderation here is rightly based on what you post, not who you are, only repeat offences get you banned.

Banning Trump was the right call when it was done, I voted against him being "allowed" back on.

But my argument was that he was never going to come back, "allowing" him back is mostly symbolic, and if he did come back, it is up to moderation to reign in his worst excesses.

I'm fine with your views on moderation. My protest is framing the thing around the concept of "free speech" since good moderation is nothing of the sort. It's pretty restrictive speech with all kinds of rules and codes of conduct.

 

[Tony73]

The CEO of a public company going out of his way to enrage and provoke a segment of the population is beyond stupid.
There were far better ways to handle bringing Trump back to Twitter if he felt that was the right thing to do,

Discretion is the better part of valor. Wish musk understood that.

 

[Ogre]

Straw Man Argument (Logical Fallacy): Definition and Examples

Straw man argument is a type of logical fallacy that occurs when someone deliberately distorts or misrepresents their opponent's position.

fallacyinlogic.com

As such, this fallacy takes the following logical form:​

​

• Person 1 makes an argument X.
• Person B creates a distorted version of person A’s argument (the “straw man”).
• Person B attacks the distorted version of argument X.

Is it really though? People here have claimed that 90% of the staff have left. I’ve seen on this very thread claims that every single Twitter developer was in one photo with Elon. Are they all on this one team that happens to deliver this one specific feature?

Over and over people claim there is a huge shortage of talent at Twitter but…. Nothing suggests this is true outside a handful of bitter ex employees. (I can definitely understand why they are bitter, but they are definitely bitter)

What were those great developers who left doing that was so important? Every time I ask someone to demonstrate this point they insist is a huge problem they get angry and change the topic. How about a real discussion of what you expect will happen to Twitter since so many people here you think this problem is so huge.

Obviously the result doesn’t include downtime. And considering the snails pace Twitter was releasing new features, it can hardly effect that much.

So what exactly is the problem here? You can’t keep claiming over and over that there is a huge problem where there have been zero effects from it.

Did I miss some big outage?

 

[sleepydoc]

Yeah, that’s not the point people have been making about H1B holders, but carry on.

umm...yeah, that's exactly the point people have been making. It's also the point that many have been missing. Maybe because they want to mischaracterize posts to fit their agenda.

 

[MC3OZ]

I'm fine with your views on moderation. My protest is framing the thing around the concept of "free speech" since good moderation is nothing of the sort. It's pretty restrictive speech with all kinds of rules and codes of conduct.

Well in this care "free speech" is simply the right to post, not a right to have unmoderated posts.

I think we are more or less in agreement here and are splitting hairs, I only attempted to clarify in case it is helpful.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Well in this care "free speech" is simply the right to post, not a right to have unmoderated posts.

I think we are more or less in agreement here and are splitting hairs, I only attempted to clarify in case it is helpful.

Yes less Soviet style censorship plus consensus manufacture and moreso curation that takes the most interesting content from differing viewpoints.

 

[Krugerrand]

Thanks! I never thought of that!!!

You’re welcome! Sometimes it’s just that simple.

 

[DrGriz]

You’re welcome! Sometimes it’s just that simple.

Yes. It must be awfully nice when things are just that simple!

 

[Krugerrand]

umm...yeah, that's exactly the point people have been making. It's also the point that many have been missing. Maybe because they want to mischaracterize posts to fit their agenda.

I just read literally 50 pages of this thread today and it is NOT people’s point. Not even close. Reading this thread like it’s a cliffhanger novel you just can’t put down gives one a perspective you don’t get reading a handful of posts spread out over a number of days. You get to see the main characters and the plot development in a unique way. (Side note: the book could have used a better editor - just a smidgen of repetitiveness)

The main point being made repeatedly is that these H1B employees are poor unfortunates with no choice but to push the ‘I’ll be a slave for big, bad Elon’ button, so I’m not forced to return to my homeland - under great duress of course. - because there are literally no other options.

Another point being made repeatedly is the suggestion these H1B employees aren’t very good engineers.

 

[Krugerrand]

Yes. It must be awfully nice when things are just that simple!

Sometimes it just is. No need to make things more complicated than they are - otherwise you end up with the Faberge egg of cars.

 

[DrGriz]

Sometimes it just is. No need to make things more complicated than they are - otherwise you end up with the Faberge egg of cars.

I get it! It's like the guy in Colorado today who murdered 5 people and shot 25 more in the LGBQT bar. Why? Because he wanted to! What could be more simple? No need to think about motives. Otherwise you end up with a Faberge egg!

 

[wdolson]

Down-votes from the community of verified humans, not bots.

Elon's plans are pretty interesting if you listen to what he actually says.

Humans can manipulate things and lie too. We have plenty of examples.

Anyway how do they know they aren't bots. The people who do the last layer of checking for bots are gone.

I've been listening to Elon. I hear a lot of pipe dreams, but they fly in contradiction to the real world environment he's trying to enact them in.