Elon says no Central Speedometer

[Garlan Garner]

This is what I don't get. Would it have HURT to put in a speedometer or some kind of display directly in front of the driver? .

It would have hurt Teslas pocketbooks. It would have hurt the speed of Teslas production line. Tesla is thinking about Tesla right now.

Tesla can pretty much do whatever they want with the Model 3. Reservationists aren't going anywhere because most of them can't afford anything else Tesla makes.....AND Tesla doesn't have any viable competition in the EV market. YET.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It would have hurt Teslas pocketbooks. It would have hurt the speed of Teslas production line. Tesla is thinking about Tesla right now.

I am thinking Tesla is thinking like they were thinking falcon wings in some of these decisions. Too much controversy, too little usability benefit.

Maybe they just like controversy and weirdmobiles.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I am thinking Tesla is thinking like they were thinking falcon wings in some of these decisions. Too much controversy, too little usability benefit.

Maybe they just like controversy and weirdmobiles.

Tesla / Elon has admitted that there were a ton of down sides to the falcon wing doors.

 

[malcolm]

Okay - this is waaaaaaay too extreme

But there's nothing to say you can't put displays ON the steering wheel, around the side of the airbag.

Plus it does look kinda spaceshippy

 

[ecarfan]

Yeah, so the point I am making is not that making a sedan is a bad idea necessarily. My point is: Tesla is not actually making a sedan, just like with Model S they may call it that, but they are pretty much making a hatchback (at least the prototype was a hatchback) where the hatch would normally be a great feature, but was compromised massively due to the desire to have an all-glass roof wrapping around it.

The way I interpret your post, when you wrote "the prototype was a hatchback" you were referring to the Model 3 prototype.

I do not recall ever seeing a Model 3 "prototype" (meaning an actual vehicle, not a drawing released by Tesla or from some other source) that had a hatchback. There were third party imaginary Model 3 renderings showing a hatchback. But they were simply unfounded speculation.

It appears to me that the Model 3 has always been intended to be a sedan with a conventional trunk. I do not know what you mean by "the prototype was a hatchback".

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The way I interpret your post, when you wrote "the prototype was a hatchback" you were referring to the Model 3 prototype.

I do not recall ever seeing a Model 3 "prototype" (meaning an actual vehicle, not a drawing released by Tesla or from some other source) that had a hatchback. There were third party imaginary Model 3 renderings showing a hatchback. But they were simply unfounded speculation.

It appears to me that the Model 3 has always been intended to be a sedan with a conventional trunk. I do not know what you mean by "the prototype was a hatchback".

My interpretation of it being hatchback is my own and based on what the prototype looks like. It is hatchback car in every way, except the stub of a trunk. It is not a sedan design shape-wise and its trunk, the way it lifts, is a hatchback feature, only cut short by the reality of the long glass ceiling. And of course Model S made use of a similar shape to give us a very usable hatchback... though Tesla calls it a sedan to appease the U.S. market.

Is it possible Tesla always intended the Model 3 to have a sedan-like trunk opening size? Certainly it is possible. But if it remains like that, it will be controversial. It is the hatch that could have been. It lifts up promising so much and then ending up with almost a cabriolet-like small trunk hole, while most of the "hatch" is just the sides lifting up to expose empty space between them...

 

[electracity]

Okay - this is waaaaaaay too extreme

But there's nothing to say you can't put displays ON the steering wheel, around the side of the airbag.

Plus it does look kinda spaceshippy

There is a comparison to be made here between formula 1 and the model 3. Formula 1 has few gauges now due to telemetry. The model 3 and future cars replace the formula 1 pit crew with the cars computer. Both are capable intermediaries.

 

[JeffK]

It'd be like driving a heavy car before power steering and assisted braking. It takes more effort, but it's very obviously manageable because people managed it for a very long time. And it happens now: people have accidentally turned their Gen 1 Volts off , or have had their Gen 2 Volts lose propulsion and been able to bring their cars safely to a stop.

An autonomous car without a back-up control system would, in the event of power loss, travel at speed in a straight line, gradually losing speed, until it hits something or comes to a stop.

You are assuming these systems are controlled by the high voltage battery, when they are likely running off the 12V which is is trivial if they really wanted to add a backup.

Propulsion might cut off but you don't need to lose steering and braking.

 

[eisbock]

I must admit that after such a practical and normal car as Model S, the weirdmobile risks Tesla has taken with Model X and even Model 3 (no instrument cluster, sacrificing hatchbackiness for glass roofs) seems so... unlike.

I think they are unnecessary risks compared to the mission. A normal BEV, nothing too odd, executed well, like Model S, would have been good enough.

There are already obstacles to adoption. Why add more?

I can see them taking this approach several years and design iterations down the road, but they're moving way too fast and aggressively. Your goal is to make EVs an acceptable (or even superior) alternative to ICEs, you'd think the first thing you'd do is establish a core lineup that appeals to most markets of car buyers to create a foundation. Then you can start doing weird stuff.

Why this insistence to get weird when you're at the most important point of your company's fragile life? Model 3 can make or break Tesla. There will never be a bigger moment for Tesla than right now, and they're doing everything they can to make it crash and burn. It makes zero sense.

 

[JeffK]

This is what I don't get. Would it have HURT to put in a speedometer or some kind of display directly in front of the driver? ...This is what upsets me the most - I understand you want change and I love change. But this just wasn't a smart idea. You're fundamentally changing a habit that the vast majority of people have that could easily be tied to safety.

Not true at all. Toyota Prius hasn't done this (behind the steering wheel speedometer) for years, other cars as well. This shouldn't be upsetting you. That's like saying in a push button start car that they should have added a key slot so you can stick in a key and physically turn it because that's what people are used to... you know "for safety". It's all BS. Heck, the Tesla doesn't have a push button to start the car.

You are making it sound like the speedometer is not visible at all or even difficult to see while driving and that notion is completely false. I'd argue that any experienced driver knows when they are going at an unsafe speed, so you can't even say about safety. If you're worried about an inexperienced driver then you can't say they already have a habit. humans will adapt quite easily in just a few hours.

Should they force all cars to use creep mode? Should they disable all regen because it's "different" than what the "vast majority of people" are used to?

It's best to hold judgement until you actually are behind the wheel and drive it for a day.

 

[Petra]

sacrificing hatchbackiness for glass roofs

Hasn't this already been discussed to death? Making the Model 3 a liftback would require relocating a rear structural support to a location which would pretty much kill off all rear headroom...an issue, mind you, that the Model S already suffers from. Correcting for this would mean raising the roofline even higher than it already is in the Model 3, which would impact aero, which would hurt range. Also, I have a suspicion that the large roof opening that the glass section creates during manufacturing might allow for automating some level of interior assembly eventually, reducing manufacturing cost and increasing output.

I get that you like the practicality of a liftback--it has made my Model S a great car for Ikea runs--but don't think that the trade was made just because somebody thought a glass roof would be cool. Heck, I'm only ~175-177cm tall and my head hits the headliner if I sit in the back of my Model S.

 

[tga]

Toyota Prius hasn't done this for years

You say that like it's a good thing. The Tesla Prius? No thank you. The Prius is not the epitome of automotive interior design...

 

[JeffK]

You say that like it's a good thing. The Tesla Prius? No thank you. The Prius is not the epitome of automotive interior design...

There are other manufacturers who have done this too, it's not a new thing.
GM, Mini, Citroen, Jeep (FCA), etc.

I'm pretty sure soldiers drove just fine in this during WWII. If they needed an airbag though, they were SOL. I'd argue the Model 3 is easier to read than this and with better placement..

 

[dsvick]

Okay - this is waaaaaaay too extreme

But there's nothing to say you can't put displays ON the steering wheel, around the side of the airbag.

Plus it does look kinda spaceshippy

The only problem with putting displays on the steering wheel is that they'd be even more inconvenient to look at than anywhere else on the dash.

 

[glhs272]

The only problem with putting displays on the steering wheel is that they'd be even more inconvenient to look at than anywhere else on the dash.

Not to mention that F1 style steering wheel would require F1 style low steering ratio. That "wheel" which is not a wheel (requires particular hand placement) would need to turn the wheels from full lock left to full lock right within 180 degrees turn of the wheel. Very low steering ratio my be great for race cars, but this does not make for a friendly driving car for most folks. High ratio steering vehicles use a steering "wheel" for a reason.

Variable steering ratio system? Well, maybe. Nothing new there. My family's Citroen SM employed this strategy way back in the 70s. But this in my eyes is getting into weirdmobile territory.

 

[kablammyman]

Okay - this is waaaaaaay too extreme

But there's nothing to say you can't put displays ON the steering wheel, around the side of the airbag.

Plus it does look kinda spaceshippy

airbag?

 

[alseTrick]

I completely disagree with this. It is blatantly obvious that the speedometer on the Model 3 is much higher and to the left than the navigation screen on the Prius. I'm getting deja vu with the oldsmobile comparison I did elsewhere, where the person tried to use a reference point that is much lower and to the right (in their case it was AC/radio controls) to test how the Model 3 might work.

Model 3 Only 1 Screen Officially

lol

You still fail to grasp what i was saying despite spelling it out for you several times.

I specifically said the speedometer location wouldn't be an issue. I was questioning everything else that is currently displayed in the S/X second screen.

Don't lie to these people.

 

[SureValla]

That's like saying in a push button start car that they should have added a key slot so you can stick in a key and physically turn it because that's what people are used to... you know "for safety". I

my gen 2 prius with push button start does have a slot to physically insert the key if you so want to. no ability to turn though sorry : )

 

[SureValla]

You say that like it's a good thing. The Tesla Prius? No thank you. The Prius is not the epitome of automotive interior design...

I was hoping for a EV prius by the time my gen 2 needed replacement. That didn't go so well so here I am on a Tesla forum! Good bye toyota!

 

[SouthFLGuy]

Not true at all. Toyota Prius hasn't done this (behind the steering wheel speedometer) for years, other cars as well. This shouldn't be upsetting you. That's like saying in a push button start car that they should have added a key slot so you can stick in a key and physically turn it because that's what people are used to... you know "for safety". It's all BS. Heck, the Tesla doesn't have a push button to start the car.

You are making it sound like the speedometer is not visible at all or even difficult to see while driving and that notion is completely false. I'd argue that any experienced driver knows when they are going at an unsafe speed, so you can't even say about safety. If you're worried about an inexperienced driver then you can't say they already have a habit. humans will adapt quite easily in just a few hours.

Should they force all cars to use creep mode? Should they disable all regen because it's "different" than what the "vast majority of people" are used to?

It's best to hold judgement until you actually are behind the wheel and drive it for a day.

My point was why NOT include it? It wouldn't hurt a thing and would avoid all of this. I never said there was no speedometer or it wasn't visible. But when you put everything on one screen and you're looking over to that screen for everything, yes it could get messy.