Elon Musk on Colbert Report (2014)

[callmesam]

It is also a comedy show, so Elon was going with some of this for comedy's sake, I assume.

I've watched many episodes and watched much of what is available with EM on youtube.

Nothing I saw seemed like a setup for a gag. When EM asked SC what he wants to see, SC seems taken aback. He looks trapped, and then does a stream of consciousness exercise. Hence the transcription above.

Wireless charging seems to make a TON of sense, at least for HPWC speed charging. Wireless Supercharging might take a while.

 

[AudubonB]

Didn't Nikola have something to say about wireless charging everywhere?

Yes, he absolutely did. In my opinion, that is the Holy Grail of St. Nikola. Whoever it is who cracks that will alter the face of the planet..solar system?...more than this feeble mind possibly can contemplate.

On edit: Oh, and I have a very, very active imagination.

 

[RobStark]

I've watched many episodes and watched much of what is available with EM on youtube.

Nothing I saw seemed like a setup for a gag. When EM asked SC what he wants to see, SC seems taken aback. He looks trapped, and then does a stream of consciousness exercise. Hence the transcription above.

It looked unrehearsed and spontaneous. But is was a joke on a comedy show. It was not Elon committed to wireless charging and wireless keyboard free computing.

 

[callmesam]

It looked unrehearsed and spontaneous. But is was a joke on a comedy show. It was not Elon committed to wireless charging and wireless keyboard free computing.

Respectfully, I disagree. I think this is a promise for wireless charging.

Elon didn't say "We'll see what we can do" as he has in the past when he didn't want to commit.

That being said, since Elon is saying "yes", then it is likely consistent with something he is already planning.

Bi-directional wireless charging could speed v2g uptake. Maybe a SolarCity interface?

Also meshes nicely with car sharing and autopilot which could park over wireless "pad".

Lots of good reasons to do wireless.

 

[HankLloydRight]

It looked unrehearsed and spontaneous. But is was a joke on a comedy show. It was not Elon committed to wireless charging and wireless keyboard free computing.

This.

Respectfully, I disagree. I think this is a promise for wireless charging.

Elon didn't say "We'll see what we can do" as he has in the past when he didn't want to commit.

That being said, since Elon is saying "yes", then it is likely consistent with something he is already planning.

Not this.

Colbert was wrapping up the segment, which was pretty charged with EM demonstrating some pretty amazing things. As the very last word he would get to say, do you think he would say "No, we can't do that yet" or "We're working on that already" or something else? It was a quick, spontaneous reply to wrap up the segment, and had no real future promise for anything. He said "yes" in a "yes, he he, someday the world will have wireless charging" kind of way.

 

[artsci]

I cringed when Colbert likened the Model S to a super golf cart. That was a joke that must have also made Elon cringe, although he didn't show it.

 

[RobStark]

Respectfully, I disagree. I think this is a promise for wireless charging.

Elon didn't say "We'll see what we can do" as he has in the past when he didn't want to commit.

That being said, since Elon is saying "yes", then it is likely consistent with something he is already planning.

Bi-directional wireless charging could speed v2g uptake. Maybe a SolarCity interface?

Also meshes nicely with car sharing and autopilot which could park over wireless "pad".

Lots of good reasons to do wireless.

I respectfully disagree.


He also said yes when Colbert asked for a Star Trek type voice command keyboardless computing.

Did Elon make that promise too? Is he working on the software for that too?

The only thing Elon said no to was jetpacks.

BTW Wireless charging waste about 20% of the energy.

 

[chickensevil]

I cringed when Colbert likened the Model S to a super golf cart. That was a joke that must have also made Elon cringe, although he didn't show it.

Hasn't Elon made that joke himself many times though? I thought it was a nice joke to make fun of those who think that electric cars can only be crappy golf carts and the like.

 

[Newb]

I respectfully disagree.


He also said yes when Colbert asked for a Star Trek type voice command keyboardless computing.

Did Elon make that promise too? Is he working on the software for that too?

The only thing Elon said no to was jetpacks.

BTW Wireless charging waste about 20% of the energy.

Most car buyers would take that inefficiency for gains in comfort. And "most people" is the Tesla target group Elon always had in mind when talking about the EV future. Tesla is about "the best car experience" and wireless charging would add another advantage of EVs over ICEs.

With regards to the "We'll do it" statement, I don't think Elon makes such statements frivolously. Plus, this is different from Elon just saying "...yes..." which he uses very often as a "...well...". I'd even bet Elon and Stephen had discussed the wireless charging topic prior to the show.

 

[jerry33]

Most car buyers would take that inefficiency for gains in comfort.

I doubt that very much. Look at all the complaints on the vampire drain thread, which is far less than 20%. And to get even that amount of loss requires that the car be lined up perfectly. Until the loss can be reduced to 1% or 2% and there can be a 1 metre radius around which the the losses are in the 1% to 2% range, wireless charging won't fly.

 

[WarpedOne]

You had no vote in vampire drain.
You have the option to plug it in if you find those cents too high a cost for not plugging it in.

High power charging wastes even more energy than wireless - is anyone crying about inefficiencies of SuperChargers?

 

[chickensevil]

You had no vote in vampire drain.
You have the option to plug it in if you find those cents too high a cost for not plugging it in.

High power charging wastes even more energy than wireless - is anyone crying about inefficiencies of SuperChargers?

No, noone complains because you are gaining speed over the minor efficiency loss. In the case of wireless, the best case I believe is 15kW, so while that *may* work at home, it is hardly a practical application of the technology just so you can be lazy and not plug in your car which takes 10 seconds.

The more interesting applications which would be where the inefficiency would become less of a concern, would be wireless charging that would, for example, hit your car no matter where you were while driving within the city limits. In this way, your car would always keep charged more than you could reasonably use it up while driving in the city. Although, you might need a buffer battery to facilitate in motion charging which would only attempt to charge the battery when you were neutral or in regen, since I don't think the batteries would take too kindly to being charged and discharged at the same time.

But for something like that to happen, we would have to make the breakthrough on the level that Nikolai was attempting to hit with Wardenclyffe tower.

 

[ggr]

High power charging wastes even more energy than wireless - is anyone crying about inefficiencies of SuperChargers?

There is no obvious reason why this should be true. Do you have a source you can cite? I've never seen it mentioned.

 

[callmesam]

Most car buyers would take that inefficiency for gains in comfort. And "most people" is the Tesla target group Elon always had in mind when talking about the EV future. Tesla is about "the best car experience" and wireless charging would add another advantage of EVs over ICEs.

With regards to the "We'll do it" statement, I don't think Elon makes such statements frivolously. Plus, this is different from Elon just saying "...yes..." which he uses very often as a "...well...". I'd even bet Elon and Stephen had discussed the wireless charging topic prior to the show.

Autopilot qualifies for hand's free.

Wireless charging would fulfill the other "promise".

 

[TEG]

There is no obvious reason why this should be true. Do you have a source you can cite? I've never seen it mentioned.

Slightly related old Roadster discussion here:
Tesla Roadster Charging Rates and Efficiency - Tom Saxton's Blog
I guess the concern is that at higher charge rates you start to have heat build-up in both charger and battery pack so have to use some extra energy to run cooling systems.
On the other hand, the overhead of running the charging system is minimized by reducing the amount of total time charging.

 

[chickensevil]

And as we all know... Heat is wasted energy. I will say that there must be a heck of a lot of wasted energy given that even with all the insulation I feel like I would burn my hand sometimes on the supercharger cables. Plus the fans go full speed on the cabinets. But all that being said, the trade off for time gained is worth the minor inefficiency.

 

[Doug_G]

High power charging wastes even more energy than wireless - is anyone crying about inefficiencies of SuperChargers?

I'm sure it wastes some energy compared to Level II charging, but I wouldn't expect it to be an extreme amount. Plus most people only supercharge once in a while, the total effect is insignificant.

 

[WarpedOne]

I 'integrated' charging power when charging at SC - I got 85kWh that went into the car for a full charge.
As Tesla only exposes 90% capacity this means there are roughly 10% charging loses when charging at SC - some 8kWh of energy got wasted in that hour. Say that heat pump has COP of 3 i.e. it needs 2kW to remove 6kW of heat.

In the thread about Roadster charging efficiences is revealed that cooling systems are dumb - they run all the time when one is charging and pay no attention to the amount of heat generated.
Hence it is "not recomended" to charge at 110V 12A as almost all the power will be eaten by the cooling pumps and HVAC - constant ~1kW parasitic load during charging.
One must ask is it really necessary to run the pumps and HVC when charging at only 1,5kW? There is only about 150W of heat generated when charging at 1,5kW. This is not enough to significantly heat up 900pounds of metal and liquid so the cooling system could very well stayed off.

Same with wireless charging. Power levels are low enough so they wont heat up the battery significantly. Charging at 3kW generates about 300W of heat in the battery for 20 hours = 6kWh wasted as heat
If the cooling system is run all the time that amounts to 20kWh spent on pumps and HVAC.

Because cooling systems are dumb (i.e. they run all the time even when not necessary, remember that pump that rand 24/7 in Martin's roadster?) high power charging is more efficient that lower power charging.

 

[chickensevil]

I don't think that is how the Model S cooling works though. You can hear the compressor kick on to cool the battery during heavy driving and heavy charging (since both will heat the battery). And specifically for supercharging this cooling becomes much less as the charging ramps down. When you first plug in and rocking out a full 120+kW you car sounds like a jet engine about to take off. But when you get to the top <5kW you can barely hear it anymore.

Not saying that anything else you said is wrong. Just contesting that the Model S does have "smart" cooling. I think there are other inefficiencies related to 110 that makes it still bad to use compared to even a 30A 220.

 

[green1]

Reports elsewhere on this site are that when charging on 110v the Model S will only heat or cool the battery if the ambient temperature warrants it. So if you're trying to charge outdoors in the winter in Canada, then at 110v almost all your power goes to heating the battery instead of charging, but if you do it in the spring/fall at ambient 18c it just charges. (similarly if you try to charge from 110v in texas in July at 2000 degrees, almost all your power goes to cooling, and none to charging)