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Elon: Autopilot, new constraints on when it can be used
- Thread starter andrewket
- Start date
Don't worry, it's just going to be weight detection and seat-belt detection. You know how the car automatically goes into P when reversing if you lift your bottom out of the seat? Same qualifications.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I wonder if it has to do with the incident in Hong Kong where the government forced them to pull autopilot by rolling back the update until further notice. I think it was because an owner went to the media and showed how it was "dangerous" by using it in city limits (including through a construction zone) and the media took it to the government.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/56532-Tesla-gets-warning-letter-from-Transport-Department-for-auto-pilot
Tesla will have to make some kind of change there anyways before it'll be allowed.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/56532-Tesla-gets-warning-letter-from-Transport-Department-for-auto-pilot
Tesla will have to make some kind of change there anyways before it'll be allowed.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure it won't be "hands on the wheel" as that would be a major step backwards (that was a major differentiator for autopilot). The Q50 also doesn't have a timer based nag, so it's not unprecedented to not have it.
In the UK we already have a restriction that you in the US do not have. Namely, if we wish to change lane we have to have our hands on the wheel and we have to use full indicator not the "press down" three flashes indicator. This update is in 2.7.77. I suspect you may get this update in the US. I do not find this restrictive as it is not a smooth lane change, particularly on curves and I keep my hands on the wheel throughout.
I am certain that the vast majority of TMC members use AP with the caution it requires. Those YouTube idiots post those videos for the purposes of self publicity alone and action needs to be taken against them. So if anyone knows who these people are, they should report them firstly to Tesla and to the appropriate authority if the law has been broken in that particular state.
I am certain that the vast majority of TMC members use AP with the caution it requires. Those YouTube idiots post those videos for the purposes of self publicity alone and action needs to be taken against them. So if anyone knows who these people are, they should report them firstly to Tesla and to the appropriate authority if the law has been broken in that particular state.
deonb
Active Member
Soooo....
I'm not following the logic here (put forth by many - I'm not picking on your post in particular, MsElectric).
a) People do stupid things! They're going to ruin it for all of us.
b) Elon: We're going to restricts people's ability to do stupid things.
c) See!! They ruined it for all of us.
Uhhh... so what exactly is the argument? Are you saying that the "stupid things" weren't so stupid in the first place and you feel people should be able to continue doing it? Or are you just upset that you didn't have the time to do the "stupid things" yourself before it got taken away from you?
PS: I'm just pointing out the logical fallacy with the argument - I'm all for people doing whatever they want with and on private property. The wzkid57 driver-free video that likely prompted this response was in a controlled environment on a closed road, and probably safer than general driving with autopilot on the best public highway on the best day.
Maybe the Model S should follow the lead of the Bugatti Veyron and hide all of the "stupid" features behind a second key. Can also bring back the 0.75" of suspension that we lost during fire-gate.
Exactly what I was going to write. This thread is so full of illogical statements it is funny.
It is the same debate we see when people argue that they should be allowed to drive faster than the currents speed limits because they are responsible drivers and know exactly what they are doing when driving fast and no they are not endangering anybody's life, and their freedom should not be restricted because irresponsible people drive really too fast or do not know how to safely drive faster than the speed limits. That is quite narcissistic.
Basically, as I predicted, Google was right. People, when presented with the opportunity of using an evolved semi-autopilot, will want to use it even on roads and in conditions where it is not 100% ready to be used safely because the hardware and the software are not sophisticated enough, thus endangering the lives of other drivers and pedestrians. It is the natural tendency of the brain to save energy that is responsible for this behavior. Also, the modern human brain cannot stand boredom, and driving a car everyday on the same road on the way to work is a drudgery for many people, and of course they want their Model S to relieve them from that tedious task...NOW, not in 10 or 20 years; they do not want to wait for the fully autonomous Google car, beta autopilot is good enough for them, they want to fully live their lives and not wait wisely. And there is also the excitement associated with new technology: many people here are like kids who want to play with their new Xmas present all the time. They want to be free to ignore the restrictions clearly written on the screen of their Model S...on public roads !
sillydriver
Member
I think there is an additional tacit premise in the argument:
b2) Authorities that put on restrictions in response to certain behavior tend to overreact by putting on excessive restrictions.
"a common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
-Douglas Adams
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-Douglas Adams
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Drivers do not realize that they are not in control when Autopilot is engaged. They don't realize that Autopilot is not in full control either. It works very well, better than other systems but it's just still beta. There's a rumor that Tesla is working on system five times as powerful, with 8 cameras instead of currently one in Model S. Do you think that new hardware is just a bonus? Technology is in it's infancy and Tesla would be right to restrict it's use where technology is close to it's limit or will be abused.
Probably the best summary of current state of Autopilot technology can be found in the article reporting on cross country record attempt with AP:
Those who worry about restrictions, remember that Tesla is of the few manufacturers allowing full time rear view camera and can be trusted to implement restrictions only when necessary. It would be wise to put in restrictions before accidents happen so they will not be forced to overreact.
Probably the best summary of current state of Autopilot technology can be found in the article reporting on cross country record attempt with AP:
Those who worry about restrictions, remember that Tesla is of the few manufacturers allowing full time rear view camera and can be trusted to implement restrictions only when necessary. It would be wise to put in restrictions before accidents happen so they will not be forced to overreact.
chriSharek
Member
This is a real shame. Reminds me of the note I just got from my son's teacher earlier this week.
"Someone cheated on the test, and now the entire class will have to retake the exam."
"Someone cheated on the test, and now the entire class will have to retake the exam."
I understand your argument, it's the whole "Let's get to autonomous (Level 3) by skipping autopilot (Level 2)" argument that many manufacturers are making. They say that AP is dangerous and people are stupid (which they are), so let's avoid people making any mistakes.
There was a good podcast about this topic (Big red button, planet money) about Googles self driving car, and going straight to autonomous because people are stupid. It also brought up the example of the plane crash that was on autopilot, and then when the AP kicked off, the pilot panicked, over-reacted, and crashed the plane.
While I can see that perspective, I completely disagree with it. AP will save lives, if it hasn't already. You have to weigh if it saved more lives than it cost? I would bet the answer is yes.
I don't think restricting it to where it's close to it's limit is the proper solution.
-There are speed limits in texas with 85mph, so having AP going at 90mph isn't excessive speeding. Having AP set the speed limit for a driver is a nanny control. How many people actually go by the speed limit (assuming they have enough charge)?
-Having AP only engage only on divided highways isn't ideal. I use AP on non-divided highways often enough, but I know it's limitations, and I typically use it in bumper to bumper traffic to just relax and not have to steer the 6" the car in front of me moved forward.
-Having an occupancy sensor is a must, I can agree with this.
-Where else can you limit AP?
Soolim
Member
Don't have to wait long. The same reason why we have hackers that want to challenge the internet security.
sillydriver
Member
I just hope it won't nag 'hands on the wheel' every two minutes on a timer. That's my worst fear.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I freaked out when I heard the hands on wheel stuff prior to my V7 update. I was wrong to do so.
Elon is less tolerant of BS then we are and knows well that a lane keeping function that requires your hands on the wheel is near useless. Likewise, I suspect he wants people to expand the use of Tesla's AP in a responsible way and will likely continue to enable people to do so.
I'm tempering my response until I see exactly what is changed. Adding a butt in seat requirement sounds perfectly reasonable and will have zero affect on the responsible use of AP.
Elon is less tolerant of BS then we are and knows well that a lane keeping function that requires your hands on the wheel is near useless. Likewise, I suspect he wants people to expand the use of Tesla's AP in a responsible way and will likely continue to enable people to do so.
I'm tempering my response until I see exactly what is changed. Adding a butt in seat requirement sounds perfectly reasonable and will have zero affect on the responsible use of AP.
tstafford
Active Member
It seemed strange to me that the current release of AP Lane Keeping didn't have a lock out in the event the driver isn't in the seat. Maybe that was actually intentional. By not having it now, they can do a simple (and non-intrusive) safety enhancement to pacify the media.
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