I'm sure it's anyone's guess, but does anyone want to speculate or share rumors they are hearing? It would be great to think this is a possibility.
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It's not a 100, you can tell from supercharging speed. My refreshed 90D was barely at a trickle when I got back to the SC and it was at 98%. If it were really a 100 it would have still been charging faster.
Back in 2013, they also secretly produced the 60 with the heavier duty wiring to support supercharging, even if not ordered with that capability. I was one of the folks who ordered without, so lucked out. It was announced in a tweet by Elon.Only a few times (e.g. triple under body shield, autopilot, and post-refresh 75kWh battery) has Tesla made a major hardware change in currently shipping or in-production cars and not make a formal announcement about it right away. Even in those cases, the formal announcement was within a few weeks. So it's definitely possible the 90kWh cars coming off the line right now are actually software locked 100kWh batteries. But the probability decreases rapidly as you go back even a few weeks in production.
Actually I talked to a Tesla rep managing one of the Supercharger locations. He confirmed that the charge rate is throttled by Tesla based on how much you need to discourage folks from topping off. According to the rep, if you only need 50 miles the car will charge super slowly, where as the rate for folks showing up needing hundreds of miles will charge almost up to the max 370 miles per hour. So not sure that's a good indicator, plus if Tesla can software limit the battery, they could also easily simulate a 90 kWh battery even if physically 100 kWh was in there.
Not saying you are wrong, it's anyone's guess, just not sure of the reasoning.
It's not a 100.. For sure.
The supercharger rate is a good example.
The proof is from the folks that measured voltage at 100 percent on old 90s vs brand new 90s.... It's the same voltage - hence both cars are at the same state of charge (ie - not that one is at 90 percent)
Folks who won't let their wishful thinking rest, are really just going through the stages of grief...currently in denial
How does Tesla know how far you are going and how much charge you need to get there? You may have misunderstood what the rep was telling you.
It isn't Tesla knowing anything about how far your going that is the factor, it's how close to full the battery is. When a li-ion battery is at a very low state of charge, it can be charged at maximum charging current without damage. However, when the battery nears full charge, the charging current needs to taper down or the battery will be damaged.
One thing that has been found in the field is the post -refresh 90 battery packs do supercharge charge differently than earlier packs and nobody knows if it's software or some other difference. They don't charge as fast as the old batteries when at a very low state of charge, but when at a middling charge they charge much faster than the old batteries.
Um, voltage isn't what you want to look at. A Watt is Voltage times Current. Batteries are rated at a nominal voltage and a maximum voltage, and then an amp-hour rating. Hence battery packs are rated in KWh. The voltage of a battery is determined by the materials that make up the anode and the cathode. Combinations of different materials produce different voltages.
Lithium has an electrode potential of -3.026 and is the active ingredient in lithium ion cells. Tesla uses a cahode made of cobaltic oxide (mixed with nickel and aluminum). Cobalt oxide's electrode potential is +1.42. That yields a maximum of 4.446V potential, but the other materials plus various conditions does not make that achievable in the real world. The actual chemistry of Li-ion cells extremely complex with dozens of variables. In fact only about 2% of a li-ion battery is lithium and the Tesla cells are about 9% cobalt. The lithium at the anode is held in a graphite (carbon) matrix.
The batteries in the 90 KWh packs mix in some silicon compounds with the graphite because the silicon allows more energy to be released by the reaction. Replacing the graphite with silicon would allow the battery to store more energy (higher amp-hour), but it doesn't change the voltage at all, but silicon has a major draw back. When it absorbs lithium ions, it expands and if there is more than a tiny amount in the battery, a strain is put on the battery case every time you charge the battery and it will fail after a few charges.
Labs all over the world are experimenting with slews of different materials to increase the amp-hour capacity of li-ion batteries with new materials that can be added to the graphite matrix. What goes on in there is so vastly complex that nobody fully understands it. New improvements are found all the time with tiny amounts of different materials. The ratios are so touchy that adding 0.1% of some material may help a lot, but adding 0.2% will destroy the battery in a few charges.
This page details the common types of li-ion batteries in use today:
Types of Lithium-ion Batteries – Battery University
The NCA type cell used by Tesla is just one of several different types of li-ion batteries in use, each with different pros and cons.
So two different versions of battery packs having the same voltage when charged isn't indicative of anything.
I would like to believe that the 90s being built since the refresh are really 100s (since my car is only 2 months old), but I would say that's very unlikely. Telsa has done some odd things before, so I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't see why they would keep it a secret this long if it was happening.
Actually I talked to a Tesla rep managing one of the Supercharger locations. He confirmed that the charge rate is throttled by Tesla based on how much you need to discourage folks from topping off. According to the rep, if you only need 50 miles the car will charge super slowly, where as the rate for folks showing up needing hundreds of miles will charge almost up to the max 370 miles per hour. So not sure that's a good indicator, plus if Tesla can software limit the battery, they could also easily simulate a 90 kWh battery even if physically 100 kWh was in there.
Not saying you are wrong, it's anyone's guess, just not sure of the reasoning.
Actually I talked to a Tesla rep managing one of the Supercharger locations. He confirmed that the charge rate is throttled by Tesla based on how much you need to discourage folks from topping off. According to the rep, if you only need 50 miles the car will charge super slowly, where as the rate for folks showing up needing hundreds of miles will charge almost up to the max 370 miles per hour. So not sure that's a good indicator, plus if Tesla can software limit the battery, they could also easily simulate a 90 kWh battery even if physically 100 kWh was in there.
Not saying you are wrong, it's anyone's guess, just not sure of the reasoning.
This would not mean too much ; if they software unlock the extra 10 kWhrs, you will likely get a new sticker and badge for the trunkIf someone has had a recent delivery of a 90, can't they simply check the battery label in the right hand wheelwell to confirm/refute this?
If someone has had a recent delivery of a 90, can't they simply check the battery label in the right hand wheelwell to confirm/refute this?
My recently delivered MX-90D (late June 2016) does not limit the battery power at low state of charge. On my old S85D when I get below 50 miles rated range left an orange dashed line limits power output when I floor it. On the recent 90 D MX there is no such power limit. Leads me to believe there is still lots of battery capacity left when the remaining range shows 50 miles. Would indicate that the battery is larger than 90 kWhrs and is software limited.
It is likely that the 90D is software restricted for newly ordered Teslas. There is only a gap of $5000 between a 90D and 100D. The gap between a 90D ordered in 2016 to 100D is $10000. So likely something has caused a rise in price of $5000 on the 90D. They were alllowing P90D's to upgrade to P100D for $10000. Tesla is not a large company and they seem to only have 2 battery packs at any given time. So once their supply of 90kwh battery runs out they will only put in 100kwh batteries and software restrict them down.
These two put together make sense. While charging at Tesla's Seaside SuperCharger Service Center Store Showroom and Lounge, I asked the Streetside show car cleaner gentleman why some of the show cars were unbadged. He remarked a few things: "There's not a car on the lot under $100,000." "They haven't had their badges put on yet." "They are all 100 batteries." "Any of the cars on this lot can be software limited to whatever we want, and we can put that badge on." This was about a week ago.Doubt it. They will probably phase out the 90. No reason to keep it around.
They have the low end covered with the 60/75. They have the performance covered with the P. The s100d price wise fits right in the middle. I don't see a reason to add another price point in the middle, it just makes the buying decision harder.
They are already adding the 3 line. They might even drop the 60 once the 3 is around.