Does a replacement battery increase resale value / insurance claim value?

[BIG ACH]

Why wouldn't agreed value insurance factor in parts you bought for the car too like a battery pack to improve the car?

Progressive let's you insure aftermarket modifications... would a new battery pack be considered a modification? Lol

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Why wouldn't agreed value insurance factor in parts you bought for the car too like a battery pack to improve the car?

Progressive let's you insure aftermarket modifications... would a new battery pack be considered a modification? Lol

They never will. That would be like saying you want the prorated value on consumables such as the tires based on the age and miles.

Don't forget that Elon is saying these batteries will last 300-500K miles, which negates the fact that they wear out with time, whether or not you even use them. The people that really know the chemistry of these batteries will tell you that they are only expected to last 10 years, and if they last longer, then it's your lucky day. That's why the warranties are only 8 years, and that's only because the gov't mandates it. None of the manufacturers want to better the number of years, but some will up the min 100K miles that the gov't requires, such as Tesla. That's pretty much a "thanks for nothing" increase in the warranty.

So insurance companies are always going to use the data that favors them, and they will go with these numbers below:

How Long Does a Tesla Battery Last?

Range anxiety is one of the main concerns for potential electric car buyers. But the technology used in electric vehicles has improved by leaps and bounds since the introduction of the first EV. Tesla has been at the forefront of this development, with most of its models having 300-400 miles of...

ev-lectron.com

 

[Black306]

Pretty sure the OP is not talking about a car with a failed battery. (?)

Trimmed the post to focus on the equation, but the previous statement was "I'm obviously not trading in but it got me wondering... Say the battery just decides to die tomorrow..."

That is a good point and sort of conundrum I was discussing last night... Right now I am gauranteed $13k from Carmax (or maybe a bit more from another dealer) - that I can apply to a new car.... do I just take that and go trade in (I'd really rather not)... or do I try to see if the car will make it to 100,000+ miles before I decide to trade...

I understand that there are stories of Tesla's going way past the 100,000 mile mark with no problems.... but I also know there are some rare stories of customers batteries having sudden failure at 60k, 70k, or 80k miles...

So I'm sort of playing roulette with the car... maybe the car will last another 100k miles... maybe it will just die tomorrow.... What would be the smarter decision?

I don't owe any $ on the car so that is good and guess I'm fine if the battery lasts another 40-100k or whatever... I'm even fine if the car is wrecked and say Progressive pays out the car's current value.... but if I have a sudden battery failures - then well.. now I don't have that "$13k credit" anymore." and I don't have a car :/

I hear ya. Those thoughts cross my mind as well; keep the car past batt/DU warranty and gamble, or play it safe and use what value is left towards a newer car. And, if taking the gamble and losing (paying $XXk for a failed battery), that doesn't guarantee another [major] component doesn't go bad and cost thousands more. Fortunately, I have just over 4 years left on my '20s batt/DU warranty to decide.

Why wouldn't agreed value insurance factor in parts you bought for the car too like a battery pack to improve the car?

Progressive let's you insure aftermarket modifications... would a new battery pack be considered a modification? Lol

If it was like an RC car, installing a 4S (800v pack) instead of a stock 2S (400v pack) would be a modification.

 

[cduzz]

No, you can't.

I have those "agreed value" policies for my collector cars. The agreed value is based on what you spent to buy the car, and it can be adjusted up if you make a convincing case for improvements or market appreciation. They will not just let you declare the value you want. Otherwise you could buy a $30K collector car, insure it for $3M, and have it "accidentally" burn down to the ground with a fuel leak.

That certainly makes sense -- but "agreed value" implies some agreement between the insurer and the owner; if they agree the car's worth 3 million and it get destroyed for some reason, then them's the breaks; obviously that won't happen with my 260z that's on blocks, even if it does have a wicked cam in it that's NLA...

Agreed value, in this case, is "this tesla will cost $36k to replace now that I've put a $15k battery into it, presuming I start with another wallered out old 2014 p85 and drop a new battery into it" and that, as a proposition to the insurance company, isn't nearly as absurd as "this hillman minx is worth $3 million because Sterling Moss's mechanic raced it starting in 1973 in baltermore for 3 SCCA seasons where it placed 5th, 8th, and 2nd in class"

 

[TLLMRRJ]

That certainly makes sense -- but "agreed value" implies some agreement between the insurer and the owner; if they agree the car's worth 3 million and it get destroyed for some reason, then them's the breaks; obviously that won't happen with my 260z that's on blocks, even if it does have a wicked cam in it that's NLA...

Agreed value, in this case, is "this tesla will cost $36k to replace now that I've put a $15k battery into it, presuming I start with another wallered out old 2014 p85 and drop a new battery into it" and that, as a proposition to the insurance company, isn't nearly as absurd as "this hillman minx is worth $3 million because Sterling Moss's mechanic raced it starting in 1973 in baltermore for 3 SCCA seasons where it placed 5th, 8th, and 2nd in class"

It's just not going to happen that you'll see agreed value policies for daily drivers.

 

[Black306]

It's just not going to happen that you'll see agreed value policies for daily drivers.

Agreed. My Cobra is covered under a Collector Car insurance policy (agreed value) and there are a lot of stipulations; not a daily driver, not used for work/errands, garaged, etc. Very unlikely for a daily driver to be under agreed value type insurance.

 

[dwbv]

If this helps, I called my insurance agent and he says it depends on your policy and what is factored into it. EVs are still new territory for insurance coverage. Too many variables so call your agent and have a discussion.

For my policy, it's replacement value and not what I spent. If my P85D gets totalled tomorrow, I would get a check for what it would cost to get a comparable model in the open market currently.

So if a P85D like mine with similar specs and mileage can be had for $10k in the open market then I would get a check for $10k. It doesn't matter that I bought it 6 months ago for $40k and the battery died costing me another $15k.

On a scarier note, especially for Plaid owners, the insurance company will cut you a check for $80k while you still have a $100k+ outstanding loan on the car. Hope you have GAP insurance.

 

[jay1122]

That is a good point and sort of conundrum I was discussing last night... Right now I am gauranteed $13k from Carmax (or maybe a bit more from another dealer) - that I can apply to a new car.... do I just take that and go trade in (I'd really rather not)... or do I try to see if the car will make it to 100,000+ miles before I decide to trade...

I understand that there are stories of Tesla's going way past the 100,000 mile mark with no problems.... but I also know there are some rare stories of customers batteries having sudden failure at 60k, 70k, or 80k miles...

So I'm sort of playing roulette with the car... maybe the car will last another 100k miles... maybe it will just die tomorrow.... What would be the smarter decision?

I don't owe any $ on the car so that is good and guess I'm fine if the battery lasts another 40-100k or whatever... I'm even fine if the car is wrecked and say Progressive pays out the car's current value.... but if I have a sudden battery failures - then well.. now I don't have that "$13k credit" anymore." and I don't have a car :/

That is literally the reason why MS drops the price so fast. High potential repair cost. Without the warranty. The battery replacement is pretty much like a ticking time bomb. It is all about luck. If it does break down, just scrap the car. if you have deep pocket, just sell and move on.

 

[cduzz]

That is literally the reason why MS drops the price so fast. High potential repair cost. Without the warranty. The battery replacement is pretty much like a ticking time bomb. It is all about luck. If it does break down, just scrap the car. if you have deep pocket, just sell and move on.

I'd say the real danger isn't mechanical failure but a combination of mechanical failure and an insurance claim event...

When I first got my 2016 it got a love tap from a chrysler pacifica -- a small dent in the rear corner that cost roughly a honda fit to repair; insurance paid the cost but if the car were worth $13,000 they would not have paid $13,000 to repair what was a mostly cosmetic impact.

So if I paid $15k to replace the battery and $7k for a drive unit, and then I got another pacifica love tap, I'd total the car and be $10k in the hole for my troubles.

That said, if my car asks for a drive unit, I may just shrug and pay for it because I don't really see a "new" or used car that's as good as my current S, at least for the trouble of $7k. Then it asks for a new battery, and I make basically the same decision, because what car am I going to get for $15k that's as good as the S I know, even if that thing has the silly front nose cone and AP1, it also has FUSC so that's something right? Then comes the love tap from the pacifica, or let's say a nitwit in a rivian decides to cream my car, actually totalling it -- boom I've got $12k from the insurance to "replace" the car and am otherwise boned... because the car's (at least to me) worth much more than some random $12k S refuge from copart that smells like stale farts and has a timebomb battery...

Life's full of hard choices, I guess...

 

[MP3Mike]

The other day I was at Carmax shopping around for another car for my wife and decided to get the Model S appraised just for the hell of it... Carmax offered $13,000....

Kelley Blue Book has it listed it for around $19,000 or so.... I'm assuming this would be around the value from Progressive Insurance if I end up totaling the car (assuming they don't go crazy low balling - in a perfect world, right? )

What is silly about this is the value of your Model S doesn't really change much if the battery pack fails. In fact, it is worth more in parts than Carmax was offering you.

Normally only one, or two, of the 16 modules fails in these packs, and the good modules sell for ~$1,200/each. So if two modules failed you could part out just the 14 good modules for ~$16,800. Then the rear drive unit is probably worth another $4-5k. Even after that there are thousands of dollars of good parts that could be sold off of it. So the Carmax bid is ludicrous, even the KBB value is probably less than battery pack and drive unit are worth.

It really is sad that these old Model Ss are worth more parted out than they are on the road.

 

[E90alex]

It really is sad that these old Model Ss are worth more parted out than they are on the road.

I mean, that’s true for most cars older than 10-15 years. Auto parts recycling is a huge industry.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

What is silly about this is the value of your Model S doesn't really change much if the battery pack fails. In fact, it is worth more in parts than Carmax was offering you.

Normally only one, or two, of the 16 modules fails in these packs, and the good modules sell for ~$1,200/each. So if two modules failed you could part out just the 14 good modules for ~$16,800. Then the rear drive unit is probably worth another $4-5k. Even after that there are thousands of dollars of good parts that could be sold off of it. So the Carmax bid is ludicrous, even the KBB value is probably less than battery pack and drive unit are worth.

It really is sad that these old Model Ss are worth more parted out than they are on the road.

Try spending your time parting out cars and dealing with PIA buyers for every part and holding on to inventory for years. CarMax would be nuts to pay you what it costs in parts because there's a ton of hideous labor in parting out a car that you are ignoring.

 

[BIG ACH]

What is silly about this is the value of your Model S doesn't really change much if the battery pack fails. In fact, it is worth more in parts than Carmax was offering you.

Normally only one, or two, of the 16 modules fails in these packs, and the good modules sell for ~$1,200/each. So if two modules failed you could part out just the 14 good modules for ~$16,800. Then the rear drive unit is probably worth another $4-5k. Even after that there are thousands of dollars of good parts that could be sold off of it. So the Carmax bid is ludicrous, even the KBB value is probably less than battery pack and drive unit are worth.

It really is sad that these old Model Ss are worth more parted out than they are on the road.

Yeah, unfortunately I can't do the whole parting out and selling type thing. That's a major time and energy sink that I really can't afford.

On that note, does Tesla buy back cars with dead batteries as salvage? Or is that a hard no?

I get the sense that the smartest thing to do right now is to just enjoy the car while I have it for as long as I have it.... I'd the battery dies now oh well, if it dies in 3 years to just let it go and great I'd say I more than got my money's worth.

 

[jay1122]

I'd say the real danger isn't mechanical failure but a combination of mechanical failure and an insurance claim event...

When I first got my 2016 it got a love tap from a chrysler pacifica -- a small dent in the rear corner that cost roughly a honda fit to repair; insurance paid the cost but if the car were worth $13,000 they would not have paid $13,000 to repair what was a mostly cosmetic impact.

So if I paid $15k to replace the battery and $7k for a drive unit, and then I got another pacifica love tap, I'd total the car and be $10k in the hole for my troubles.

That said, if my car asks for a drive unit, I may just shrug and pay for it because I don't really see a "new" or used car that's as good as my current S, at least for the trouble of $7k. Then it asks for a new battery, and I make basically the same decision, because what car am I going to get for $15k that's as good as the S I know, even if that thing has the silly front nose cone and AP1, it also has FUSC so that's something right? Then comes the love tap from the pacifica, or let's say a nitwit in a rivian decides to cream my car, actually totalling it -- boom I've got $12k from the insurance to "replace" the car and am otherwise boned... because the car's (at least to me) worth much more than some random $12k S refuge from copart that smells like stale farts and has a timebomb battery...

Life's full of hard choices, I guess...

Insurance total pay out is based on the market value for a replacement vehicle in similar condition. If your MS gets totaled and gets a payout of $12K. That means a similar condition working MS is going for $12K in the market. If insurance pays you below market rate, you need to negotiate with them. Remember, the total pay out should always be close to the sales price of a similar condition working car that you totaled.

 

[cduzz]

Insurance total pay out is based on the market value for a replacement vehicle in similar condition. If your MS gets totaled and gets a payout of $12K. That means a similar condition working MS is going for $12K in the market. If insurance pays you below market rate, you need to negotiate with them. Remember, the total pay out should always be close to the sales price of a similar condition working car that you totaled.

Is there a market value bump for "car with tesla replaced battery with 3 years left on warranty" ? Probably not, mostly because it's a thinly traded market, not because the battery has no value.

Oh well, the invisible hand of the insurance companies not paying claims yoinks again...

 

[BIG ACH]

Soooo... I don't mean to beat this dead horse, but I just noticed an option to add coverage for "additional" custom parts provided by the vehicle manufacturer, this is with Progressive, You think we can get away with claiming a new battery was a custom part... I mean they reference a hydralic system, why not a battery?

Shame its only up to $5,000 though


-------------------------------

Custom Parts and/or Equipment​

Both Collision and Comprehensive coverage provide up to $1,000 of coverage for custom parts or equipment. Custom parts or equipment are accessories and enhancements permanently installed in or on the insured's vehicle. Parts and equipment offered by the manufacturer or installed by the dealer at the point of sale are not custom parts or equipment, but are included under the insured's standard Collision and Comprehensive coverage.

For example: The insured purchases a new car and has the manufacturer install an "aero kit." The car is involved in a crash and the aero kit is damaged. Since the manufacturer of the vehicle installed the kit, the insured does not need Additional Custom Parts and/or Equipment coverage; this claim will be paid under his or her standard Collision coverage.

Additional Custom Parts and/or Equipment​

Additional Custom Parts and/or Equipment (ACPE) coverage is available if the insured has more than $1,000 of custom parts or equipment on his or her vehicle. If the insured purchases ACPE, we will pay for custom parts or equipment damaged as a result of a covered accident up to the amount shown on the insured's Declarations Page.

Additional Custom Parts and/or Equipment coverage may be purchased by entering a total value up to $5,000. The insured must have Comprehensive and Collision coverage on his or her policy to obtain ACPE coverage.

For example: If the insured takes his or her car to a shop and has a $3,000 hydraulic package installed and is later involved in a crash that damages it, only $1,000 worth of coverage for repairing it would be provided under Collision coverage. In this case, the insured would have needed to purchase at least $2,000 of Additional Custom Parts and/or Equipment coverage in order for the claim to be fully covered.

Note: These definitions are intended only as a guideline. All terms and coverages are defined solely by the policy. Coverage limits, deductibles and certain exclusions may apply.

 

[E90alex]

A replacement battery is not really a “custom part”. It’s a necessary part for basic vehicle function and is just considered part of the base vehicle. Not an add on or accessory.

 

[Black306]

A replacement battery is not really a “custom part”. It’s a necessary part for basic vehicle function and is just considered part of the base vehicle. Not an add on or accessory.

Along those lines….if a replacement battery was lighter, higher capacity (than factory available; not talking about going from a 75kWh to a 100kWh pack*), and/or performance/voltage, there may be a case to call it a “custom part.” Since they don’t exist, I agree; it’s not an add-on or accessory.


* - there may be a case to reevaluate vehicle value if it was originally insured as a, for example, 75D but now has a 100D pack. But I still wouldn’t consider this scenario under a custom/aftermarket type coverage.

Edit: Interesting thought experiment. Actually, upgrading to a higher-spec factory pack might be considered a custom part since it was not original to a specific vehicle. Thinking about precedent…even if all high-spec parts (ex Mustang Cobra, BMW M3, Camaro ZR1, Audi RS) were installed in a lower-spec car, the car’s value wouldn’t match an OEM higher-spec car; insurance would probably consider the higher spec parts as custom parts.