Do you regret updating to use Tesla Vision and disabling your radar? Would you go back if you can?

[Syntax]

My M3 is still on 2022.20.X - I stopped updating ~4 months ago when they turned off the radar in favour of Tesla Vision.

Everyone on here and the subreddit was saying how phantom braking is worse, which I didn't really like, but the real dealbreaker for me was requiring the auto high beams during autopilot. The auto high beams are a joke (on my build) and are dangerous to use. I didn't update because it seemed as if Vision isn't quite ready, and the ahb definitely weren't ready.

I do like some of the recent UI changes and features though, and I've seen discussion that the auto highbeams got an update and are perhaps much improved. I'm tempted to update IF AP and the ahb work well.

What's your experience with Tesla Vision since turning off the radar, and particularly the (improved?) auto high beams? If you could downgrade to radar AP, would you do it?

 

[Richbot]

Apples to oranges, mine's a November 2020-build Model X, and I'm on 2022.44.25.2, and Autopilot seems to me to be the best it's been since I got the car in December 2020. 85mph autopilot speed limit notwithstanding, which is really too fast to be useful for my area, it's much more natural, and handles things well that the old system used to absolutely lose its mind over. I was skeptical it would be better, but the article I read on it suggested the old RADAR unit Tesla was using just wasn't powerful enough to give a meaningful increase in capability, so maybe that's actually true and not just a bunch of smoke from the head bullshitter

I am using autopilot only, no EAP or FSD.

Auto high beams seem the same. Usually work, sometimes don't.

 

[DJ Palmis]

Honestly AP is much smoother, ZERO phantom breaking.
BUT.. I live in a foggy area.. and I miss so much the feeling to be safe due to radar.
Now I feel like driving an old car: It is a big step back.
When I explained to my father that they deactivated the radar was astonished.
Sometime I think that we "young" people (I'm 40) are too much permissive with such new company..
My father was really angry even though the car wasn't his own

 

[bpnine]

In my mostly suburban and freeway driving (FSD beta) the only significant negative changes I noticed going to vision were:

1) the strategy for slowing down when coming up on stopped traffic changed from 'slow down well ahead of time then safely close the gap' to 'scream up at full speed limit until the last possible second then brake hard'. This is barely noticeable at slower speeds but above 40 its scary and a poor driving habit (what if there's ice on the road for example).

2) Probably unrelated to vision, but at the same time they broke the ability to slow down on FSD; if you turn the speed down with the steering wheel control it slows down normally, but if you go past a lower speed limit sign (say 60 to 35 like you get in the country when you go through a town) it slows down so gradually you will get a ticket (its not even coasting, I think they picked some time like 2 minutes to get to the new speed which doesn't work well in this case). I have to push the brakes manually (or quickly jerk the steering wheel) to disengage every time I pass a lower speed limit sign, then re-engage immediately and then it slows down normally. Once it sees the speed limit sign and changes the speed trying to slow down with the control on the steering wheel doesn't work anymore.

Phantom braking was originally really bad (once every few drives) when I got the car (with radar) in early 21, I still occasionally get an unexpected slowdown of a few MPH on the freeway but I can't remember the last time it did the old panic phantom brake down to 10mph.

The wipers have gotten a lot better, it doesn't go into high speed mode randomly in severe clear weather anymore.

The auto high beams are still something of disco light show, if there are many other cars around I disable them with the 'push forward' during autopilot because they are pretty rude to other drivers. If anything the high beams got a little better with the vision stack, but they still suck except interstates with minimal traffic at night.

 

[dusty22]

My 22 M3 vision on Auto Pilot started to gradually slow down on the interstate a few nights ago. At first I was wondering why and then spotted the flashing lignts of a police vehicle a quarter mile ahead.

 

[ArtK]

I have a 7.20.20 Model Y, and see more frequent phantom braking in recent months.

 

[kishkaru]

Yes, I would go back to radar if I could. But being a FSD car, there's very little hope.

My biggest gripe is that the car takes far too long to accelerate and close the gap when the lead car pulls away. Both me and the cars behind me get frustrated with this. So now I manually push the accelerator to "help" the car get up to speed.

With Radar, the car quickly accelerated when the gap to the lead car widened.

 

[ItMayJustWork]

I’ve gone from a model 3 FSD with radar to model Y FSD without. There is A noticeable difference and phantom breaking is awful and more frequent. My BMW i3 drives like a dream on adaptive cruise compared to the Tesla and that’s a 2019 model without updates. Admittedly it doesn’t steer but Tesla FSD is getting worse, not better.

 

[ItMayJustWork]

So why can BMW get this right in 2019 and Tesla is so far behind. I was a Tesla fan boy but nothing is happening in a positive way with FSD in the UK and I feel I have wasted my £6800 twice.

 

[derotam]

I'll toss my two cents in. There was not a noticeable difference in operation of my 2018 LR RWD when radar went away.

 

[Huskyf]

So why can BMW get this right in 2019 and Tesla is so far behind. I was a Tesla fan boy but nothing is happening in a positive way with FSD in the UK and I feel I have wasted my £6800 twice

Whoa a guy that post 6 messages ????

 

[Metralla]

Going vision only when I got on the FSD Beta last year was the biggest single improvement in performance for all Autopilot/NAV Autopark I ever had, and I would never go back.

 

[SalisburySam]

Still on v2022.20.8 despite seven downloaded updates I’ve chosen to not install. My radar still works, I’m pleased with the relatively low level of phantom braking I have, I like the ability to use AP without mandatory auto high beams or auto wipers, the “1” following distance for bumper-to-bumper traffic, and on and on and on and on. I’ve still seen nothing compelling in newer versions that, for me, outweigh the above driving benefits. I wonder how long Tesla will allow me to stay on that release.

 

[derotam]

Still on v2022.20.8 despite seven downloaded updates I’ve chosen to not install. My radar still works, I’m pleased with the relatively low level of phantom braking I have, I like the ability to use AP without mandatory auto high beams or auto wipers, the “1” following distance for bumper-to-bumper traffic, and on and on and on and on. I’ve still seen nothing compelling in newer versions that, for me, outweigh the above driving benefits. I wonder how long Tesla will allow me to stay on that release.

But why did you buy a Tesla if not for the constant updates that have unknown consequences? Come on, live a little!

 

[SalisburySam]

But why did you buy a Tesla if not for the constant updates that have unknown consequences? Come on, live a little!

LOL, but a fair question. The answer is that things change. I bought for the experience in 2018 replacing an ICE (Toyota Venza) and the OTA updates were very cool, actually did improve the car in many ways through feature delivery, and I eagerly looked forward to the next update. Sometimes it took as long as 45 days for the next version to show up, and three times I got an update the same day as its predecessor. The wait was part of the excitement as was the not knowing when or what may appear.

As time went on, I became used to these updates, i.e., jaded, and installed them automatically with little regard to what they did. As more time went on I noticed things I didn’t like appearing, like the horrid (for me) user interface of V11, some of which got backed out with subsequent changes. That’s when I started paying more attention to the release notes and comments on this and other fora before updating. Then in early 2022 I saw an update that would disable my radar: v2022.20.9. Woah! It made a vague promise that something called TeslaVision would replace radar so it was no longer needed. And it also had accompanying downgrades I neither desired not asked for such as eliminating the “1” following distance, making the iffy high beams and wipers mandatory for AP use, reducing max AP speeds, etc. I concluded that even if those things weren’t super important to me, it meant that TV parity was certainly not there and now subject to the vagaries of Tesla’s weirdo development priorities and delivery schedules. And to date with seven software versions later, parity hasn’t yet been reached. When it is, I’ll update from my pretty excellent v2022.20.8.

I like my radar. I paid for it. It works well. I can and do live well with it. We’ve bonded. I don’t wish to let it go and I’m sure it feels the same.

 

[Charles R]

Still on v2022.20.8 despite seven downloaded updates I’ve chosen to not install. My radar still works, I’m pleased with the relatively low level of phantom braking I have, I like the ability to use AP without mandatory auto high beams or auto wipers, the “1” following distance for bumper-to-bumper traffic, and on and on and on and on. I’ve still seen nothing compelling in newer versions that, for me, outweigh the above driving benefits. I wonder how long Tesla will allow me to stay on that release.

FWIW, i have a ‘22 MY and I turned off auto high beams in my settings. Still able to use autopilot.

 

[evannole]

I have a 2018 LR RWD Model 3 with the HW3/FSD computer. I have no regrets from upgrading to a software version that did away with the use of radar.

EAP seems more natural than it's ever been over the past four years. I've not noticed any significant increases in phantom braking, which used to be a real problem. My only real gripe is that sometimes in stop-and-go traffic, resuming from a dead stop is more herky-jerky than it should be; I think this is a function of being behind a driver who is being herky-jerky with their own accelerator. In fairness, I observed this many times while my car's radar was still enabled as well, but it seems a bit more pronounced now. Fortunately, it doesn't happen all the time; usually the behavior is pretty smooth.

Like a poster above, I do worry about the car's ability to "see" far ahead in poor visibility conditions, but I don't typically use AP when it's foggy or significantly rainy, so that is probably moot for me.

I also can recall seeing clips in 2018-19 of Teslas applying automatic emergency braking when it wasn't clear anything was wrong, only to see a second or two later that there was a stoppage on the highway a car or two ahead, and the car had sensed it by bouncing its radar off the pavement, under the car just in front, even though it couldn't be seen visually. Indeed, when radar was active, the display would typically show a car or even two cars ahead of you in the same lane on the screen; now, it usually only shows the car directly in front of you. Losing that extra amount of AEB assurance is pretty unfortunate, but on balance, I'm pretty happy with the latest version of EAP.

 

[dachshund]

It seems to me everyone's experience is different. I think this is Tesla's big challenge. I ordered my MY with FSD and I've been reading and watching videos made by 'the experts.' It's my opinion that the experience varies so much across regions and mapping data that I can't expect to have the same experience as anyone else. It's clear that each software update cures one or two specific issues, and introduces new ones. The false positives that cause phantom braking are a known problem, and it seems to be the most difficult to solve. There are lots of environments that cause the false positives. I may have more in my driving sphere, you may have fewer.

Since the neural network and mapping software are always changing, I think it will never be "perfect," and AI is still a long way away from seeing as well as humans. I bought the FSD knowing I was going down a certain rabbit hole. But it won't be perfect for a very long time.

 

[ATPMSD]

The only thing stupider than Tesla’s removal of radar is their removal of ultrasonic sensors. Elon has this single minded idea that Vision can do it all without appreciating the many limitations of vision. It is far better to supplement vision with other sensors then to simply remove them.

 

[bpnine]

But why did you buy a Tesla if not for the constant updates that have unknown consequences? Come on, live a little!

The one thing that actually irritates me isn't the technology (its beta, its supposed to be a mess); its that you can't go back to either the last version that was working well or to some arbitrary version in the past you saved. I understand there are some versions that have recalls they won't want to let you go back to, but even apple the king of "eat this and love it or hit the road" will let you downgrade for a couple of weeks after a release.