Dangerous Touchscreens?

[sleepydoc]

Saw this article today:

The Glorious Return of an Old-School Car Feature

Automakers are starting to admit that a new car technology didn’t work out.

slate.com

Basically reinforces a point I’ve made before about the user interface and lack of buttons, backing it up with some data.

Bottom line- the user interface matters and you need to put work into a good design.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

A number of posts have complained about AP or FSDb giving them nudges (or worse) when their eyes are on the screen. Within the few seconds we are allowed to be looking at the screen before having to apply torque to the wheel, not all of us can read the tiny text and navigate our way through the ever-changing menus and features in order to find defrost settings, turn on our lights instead of relying on no tail-lights in mist, or trying to shut off the wipers on a sunny day. Buttons would help with all of that.

And turning off access to the browser and other non-essential 'options' like fart while the car is in motion wouldn't be a bad idea either. Improving the audio entertainment in order to make it more consistent between apps. Sometimes you can jump to the next track using the scroll wheel, sometimes that just jumps ahead 30 seconds. Sometimes you can go back to a previous song, sometimes you can't.

For me, I miss the blue nudge screen when in AP because my hands are on the wheel (and 2 hands = no torque) and my eyes are looking at the road ahead not the screen. It is only if there's an audible warning (apparently no longer in the latest version?) or if I happen to see the blue as scanning from left mirror, centre mirror, right mirror, that I catch the warning.

I hate my tesla and the major reason is its reliance on the screen and layers of menus for driving functions, all made worse by the choice of fonts and the ever changing UI. I'm old fashioned and feel that staring at a screen all the time to drive a car, using its depiction of what it sees as 'gospel' is wrong and I should be looking out the windshield to use my faster (despite my age) brain to process all potential issues that need monitoring.

This quote from the article sums up my reason for hating my tesla:

Jay Caspian Kang wrote, “I can think of no better way of describing the frustration of the modern consumer than buying a car with a feature that makes you less safe, doesn’t improve your driving experience in any meaningful way, saves the manufacturer money and gets sold to you as some necessary advance in connectivity.”

 

[DanDi58]

A number of posts have complained about AP or FSDb giving them nudges (or worse) when their eyes are on the screen. Within the few seconds we are allowed to be looking at the screen before having to apply torque to the wheel, not all of us can read the tiny text and navigate our way through the ever-changing menus and features in order to find defrost settings, turn on our lights instead of relying on no tail-lights in mist, or trying to shut off the wipers on a sunny day. Buttons would help with all of that.

And turning off access to the browser and other non-essential 'options' like fart while the car is in motion wouldn't be a bad idea either. Improving the audio entertainment in order to make it more consistent between apps. Sometimes you can jump to the next track using the scroll wheel, sometimes that just jumps ahead 30 seconds. Sometimes you can go back to a previous song, sometimes you can't.

For me, I miss the blue nudge screen when in AP because my hands are on the wheel (and 2 hands = no torque) and my eyes are looking at the road ahead not the screen. It is only if there's an audible warning (apparently no longer in the latest version?) or if I happen to see the blue as scanning from left mirror, centre mirror, right mirror, that I catch the warning.

I hate my tesla and the major reason is its reliance on the screen and layers of menus for driving functions, all made worse by the choice of fonts and the ever changing UI. I'm old fashioned and feel that staring at a screen all the time to drive a car, using its depiction of what it sees as 'gospel' is wrong and I should be looking out the windshield to use my faster (despite my age) brain to process all potential issues that need monitoring.

This quote from the article sums up my reason for hating my tesla:

Jay Caspian Kang wrote, “I can think of no better way of describing the frustration of the modern consumer than buying a car with a feature that makes you less safe, doesn’t improve your driving experience in any meaningful way, saves the manufacturer money and gets sold to you as some necessary advance in connectivity.”

You didn't know about this before you bought the car?! Sell it and move on.

 

[smogne41]

I really hope this is a real trend in the auto industry, not that I expect Tesla to follow it willingly regardless. All the academic research on this issue is quite clear that touch screen use while driving is a major safety issue. That assessment totally comports with my 5 years of experience in a Model 3 as well, I try and use the touch screen as little as possible.

I would go further though and say we are totally overdue for some regulations on their usage and function. At a minimum I think all sub-menu access should be locked out when driving. If it is not persistent on the top level of screen interaction you don't get to adjust it while driving. More extreme but totally reasonable would be a full lockout of all touch functionality while driving. Controls you need while driving go on physical switch-gear, settings can go on the screen. You can still have minimalism, but just slightly less of it.

Regarding Tesla specifically for the current cars the full screen lockout would not be practical/possible (but I think it would force Tesla produce far better cars from a driving perspective). The more modest sub-menu lockout idea would be totally doable, and would force Tesla to make a far better UI with more on-screen controls you need while driving and less space to the dumb car visualization for example.

 

[smogne41]

You didn't know about this before you bought the car?! Sell it and move on.

This is an industry-wide brain rot.

 

[rlsd]

"Some automakers seem to be doubling down on their commitment to screens; the new Mercedes 2024 E-Class will come with up to three of them. Even more troubling was General Motors’ recent announcement that its future models would be incompatible with widely used Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, instead requiring owners to navigate a new infotainment interface. As a result, those accustomed to CarPlay or Android Auto will need to ascend a learning curve when they buy a new car, borrow a friend’s vehicle, or get a rental. Learning curves and car safety do not mix well."

Mercedes and GM don't have problems with touchscreen.

And I still don't get how could people use Android Auto and Apple Car without touching the screen.

 

[smogne41]

Voice control is the solution, although the voice control of Tesla is that good.

No it's not. Even when it works (which is not always) it is slower, more obtrusive, and more annoying then just pressing a button. You really want me to have to wake up my sleeping passengers just to change the wiper speed or adjust my seat heater? Hard pass.

 

[bpnine]

Voice control is the solution, although the voice control of Tesla is that good.

I don't like voice control.

In its present form its not very good at recognizing the intent of what I'm saying even though its fine decoding the sounds into words, its also pretty laggy. If I want the wipers on right now voice is too slow. You would think understanding variations of commands ("report issue", "report disengagement", "report failure", "report problem") would be easy for an AI capable company like Tesla, but in my experience with my voice it has not worked well at all.

If they actually got it to work *really well* technically I would probably still avoid it most of the time: its much faster and lower mental overhead to hit a control than to compose/speak a sentence; also its not convenient or polite to talk all the time. Its problematic if when you don't want to or can't speak out loud: if you're on a phone call, someone else in the car is talking on the phone, people are having conversation in the car, kids are sleeping, the windows are open or the road surface is noisy or someone else has loud music nearby. Its not the end of the world but it interrupts music/other audio as well. Heck, I don't even like the disconnect 'bong' in joe mode as its jarring to PAX in an otherwise quiet car. The turn signals are about the right amount of 'alert noise' when its needed.

 

[bpnine]

A number of posts have complained about AP or FSDb giving them nudges (or worse) when their eyes are on the screen. Within the few seconds we are allowed to be looking at the screen before having to apply torque to the wheel, not all of us can read the tiny text and navigate our way through the ever-changing menus and features in order to find defrost settings, turn on our lights instead of relying on no tail-lights in mist, or trying to shut off the wipers on a sunny day. Buttons would help with all of that.

And turning off access to the browser and other non-essential 'options' like fart while the car is in motion wouldn't be a bad idea either. Improving the audio entertainment in order to make it more consistent between apps. Sometimes you can jump to the next track using the scroll wheel, sometimes that just jumps ahead 30 seconds. Sometimes you can go back to a previous song, sometimes you can't.

For me, I miss the blue nudge screen when in AP because my hands are on the wheel (and 2 hands = no torque) and my eyes are looking at the road ahead not the screen. It is only if there's an audible warning (apparently no longer in the latest version?) or if I happen to see the blue as scanning from left mirror, centre mirror, right mirror, that I catch the warning.

I hate my tesla and the major reason is its reliance on the screen and layers of menus for driving functions, all made worse by the choice of fonts and the ever changing UI. I'm old fashioned and feel that staring at a screen all the time to drive a car, using its depiction of what it sees as 'gospel' is wrong and I should be looking out the windshield to use my faster (despite my age) brain to process all potential issues that need monitoring.

This quote from the article sums up my reason for hating my tesla:

Jay Caspian Kang wrote, “I can think of no better way of describing the frustration of the modern consumer than buying a car with a feature that makes you less safe, doesn’t improve your driving experience in any meaningful way, saves the manufacturer money and gets sold to you as some necessary advance in connectivity.”

The comments on the NYT article were interesting. I'm with a lot of the commenters that I generally like having a big screen in the cockpit, but mostly I want to use it for map and instrumentation. I really don't want a cockpit encrusted with physical buttons for functions that are almost never used either, that sort of stuff should be in a menu somewhere.

They should look at some human factors research that has gone into avionics, its not actual rocket surgery to design a UI that's practical and takes advantage of muscle and positional memory (so you can use it w/o staring at it while driving). Given the heat they get for safety with FSD I really don't understand why (marketing bling?) they don't clean the UI up for usability and safety.

 

[Konicom04]

I just need a windshield wiper stalk.

 

[jjrandorin]

This is funny, lol...

As if somehow, with the return of buttons, people will not still be glued to their smartphone while driving, either in some sort of holder, dashmount, etc. Cars with buttons still have the VAST majority of those people with some sort of smartphone mount, and regardless of what buttons are there, people are going to be glued to those screens.

There are a few things that are better for physical controls, I do agree with that, but if people think a removal of screens somehow makes it "safer" thats laughable.

 

[smogne41]

I don't use my phone when driving. Many people do not. But I sure have to use the Tesla touch screen when driving but would really rather not. Bad behavior in some is not an excuse for significantly less safe design elsewhere.

 

[jjrandorin]

I don't use my phone when driving. Many people do not. But I sure have to use the Tesla touch screen when driving but would really rather not. Bad behavior in some is not an excuse for significantly less safe design elsewhere.

Shrug. I cant think of anything that I have to use the main touchscreen for when I am driving. Yes, voice commands work for me, and no, I am not driving around with sleeping family members at all times that I am worried about waking up.

 

[WyoDude]

I don't use my phone when driving. Many people do not.

“Many do not”
You were saying…

https://saferoads.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Selective-Advocates-Distracted-Driving-Poll-Report-2022-FINAL.pdf

 

[WyoDude]

Saw this article today:

The Glorious Return of an Old-School Car Feature

Automakers are starting to admit that a new car technology didn’t work out.

slate.com

Basically reinforces a point I’ve made before about the user interface and lack of buttons, backing it up with some data.

Bottom line- the user interface matters and you need to put work into a good design.

Love data, here’s some more to add to the mix

Accident rate for Tesla 80% lower than US average with FSD

Tesla cars are 5 to 8 times less likely to be involved in crash compared to US average when using Autopilot or FSD, and half as likely when using no safety trigger.

thedriven.io

 

[dusty22]

I've been driving a 30 year old car for the past 20 years that has all the physical switches and buttons anyone could want. The Model 3 was a totally new experience for me but I kept an open mind and was willing to learn. After almost a year and a half of ownership, I can say I really like the screen. I don't look at it much while driving and I can can control important features like the wipers and lights from the stalk and I placed the defroster controls at the bottom left of the screen so I always know where they are. I also know that the 2023.12.1 Update has added more physical controls to the stalk that will reduce the need to look for buried functions on the screen even more. I'm sill on 2.12.

I find it reassuring that if the screen ever needs replacement, it is a fairly simple operation compared to removing a dashboard / instrument cluster, for a defective switch, gauge or light etc., and having it sent to a shop that repairs or rebuilds them.

Is the screen dangerous to me? No.

 

[BitJam]

The fundamental problem is Elon bet the farm on being able to solve FSD "this year". Many of the questionable or annoying UI and UX design choices trace back to this. Elon is still optimistic about solving FSD this year so I doubt Tesla will put in a lot of effort or money to make the manual driving experience better.

I'm a tech nerd so I really like the touchscreen especially since it allows adding new features OTA and allows the seamless integration remote control via the app. OTOH, if the S3XY Buttons were $100 less, they would be an insta-buy for me.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I can can control important features like the wipers and lights from the stalk and I placed the defroster controls at the bottom left of the screen so I always know where they are.

For wipers, I understand that I will, with the next download be able to adjust speed from the wheel. So that is taken care of.

I've done the defroster control in the bottom left spot too. My husband has rear defroster in his profile but it isn't an option I'm offered in my profile. I thought it didn't matter until I learned that the side mirror heaters only turn on when you turn on rear defrost. As a result I want it (or will next November) but can't figure out why it isn't one of the features I can drag down to the precious spots on the screen but he can. (Although as I type this, the main difference between our two profiles is he has FSDb turned on and I don't, so maybe that's why. The only other difference between us is that he uses a fob and I use a phone key.)

But for the lights, how is it that you use the stock to change the lights from Auto to On? I've missed this tip.

I can hit the high beam stalk and that brings up the menu on the screen but I can't change the setting without looking at the screen and choosing the headlight icon without an A in it. (I had to do that just today while driving in steady rain so that my car was visible from behind.) In torrential rain requiring me to lower my speed far below the posted max, I hit the physical switch that puts on my 4-way flashers.

What I really want is an Always On feature for the lights when the car is in Drive, so that I am always driving with taillights and don't have to think about whether the weather conditions require tail lights for visibility. But that's a whole new feature. For now, being able to turn on the taillights without looking at the screen would be sufficient.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

You didn't know about this before you bought the car?! Sell it and move on.

Can't. We are a single car family. The other driver likes the car. When he dies, it will be sold.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I find it reassuring that if the screen ever needs replacement, it is a fairly simple operation compared to removing a dashboard / instrument cluster, for a defective switch, gauge or light etc., and having it sent to a shop that repairs or rebuilds them.

Is the screen dangerous to me? No.

That's an excellent point.

And people keep saying if the screen goes out while driving, you can still safely drive the car. And I agree. As long as you don't need to know how fast you are going. And as long as voice command actually understands what you are saying first try when you ask to change the lights or wipers or any other function that is on the screen only. (In my case, once I park the car I'm effed cuz I have pin-to-drive enabled.)