Coronavirus

[msm859]

More people will have died from COVID under Biden than Trump

He was handed the vaccine on a silver platter and blew it by questioning its development and effectiveness during his campaign.

"It is amusing how, in year one of the pandemic, every story about the virus was a “blame Trump” story. Absolutely nothing Biden has done is working, yet Biden really never gets blamed for anything. Sure, Trump said a lot of wacky things, but Biden has told many falsehoods about the virus as well. He stated, for example, that "If you're vaccinated, you're not going to be hospitalized, you're not going to be in the ICU unit and you're not going to die." And then, shortly after those comments, Biden contradicted himself and added that even if vaccinated people do "catch the virus," they are "not likely to get sick."

Further, when discussing the delta variant, Biden stated that vaccines "cover" the delta variant insofar as people will not contract the virus if vaccinated. "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations,” Biden said."

OMG, Are you serious? Do your really think that ANYONE is not getting vaccinated because Biden questioned its development/effectiveness (assuming that is true) during the campaign? 92 % of Democrats vs 56% of Republicans have been vaccinated. For COVID-19 vaccinations, party affiliation matters more than race and ethnicity
Falsehoods? Do you know the definition? It is KNOWINGLY making a false statement. We (at least the smart people) are all still learning about COVID. However, most statistics do in fact show @90% of the people hospitalized in hospitals are in fact unvaccinated. Likewise, the overwhelming majority of people dying today are in fact unvaccinated. But for the innocent collateral damage, Darwin would probably say this is the perfect disease. It targets the "ignorant" and a thinning of the herd would be good for mankind.

 

[shinytop]

Hey, Duke. Saw you voted disagree on my post of Florida's cases per capita. Since I said nothing but facts I wonder what you disagreed with. Care to comment?

 

[cwerdna]

Texas Governor Greg Abbott bans vaccine mandates by "any entity" in the state
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott orders a ban on all COVID-19 vaccine mandates in the state

 

[shinytop]

I think Abbot and DeathSantis are related ... to Trump as well as each other.

 

[dhanson865]

Read the (short) article. I still don't see if the kid had to be hospitalized or not or anything happened besides general cold symptoms (the most common symptom in kids).

It still sounds like you haven't read the article, you said you thought it was "a money grab", but the lawsuit isn't asking for money. It's asking for the school to follow CDC guidelines.

"Shannon Jensen filed the lawsuit in federal court against the Waukesha School District and school board on Oct. 5. Jensen is seeking an injunction ordering the district to comply with U.S. Centers for Disease Control COVID-19 guidelines."

It may surprise you, but you can sue for things other than money.

 

[madodel]

The Pennsylvania State legislature got a State Constitutional Amendment passed in this year's primary election when few people vote and are easily tricked, to gain control of when, for how long and for what a Governor and our State Health Department can declare a state of emergency. Now one of our stable genius legislators is using the State's contact tracing letter to attack the state as threatening children. This is of course why ignorant, government hating opportunist shouldn't be in government and shouldn't be making health care decisions for anyone except their ignorant selves.
Pa. Health Department pushes back on lawmaker's charge they're threatening kids

 

[JRP3]

Seems the "unmoderated" status of this thread has changed...

 

[FlatSix911]

Darwin would probably say this is the perfect disease. It targets the "ignorant" and a thinning of the herd would be good for mankind.

Your true colors are now showing... sociopathic ignorance and arrogance on full display for all to see.

Well done.

 

[msm859]

Your true colors are now showing... sociopathic ignorance and arrogance on full display for all to see.

Well done.

Ouch.

And what would you say about the governors of Florida and Texas who are making executive orders to make it harder to fight COVID AND will ACTUALLY cause people to die from their actions - ALL for political gain, as opposed to my "sociopathic ignorance and arrogance" remark? And exactly how is my remark ANY of those descriptions? What exactly was "ignorant"? What exactly was "arrogant"? AND exactly what was" sociopathic"?
Those are all hyperbolic inflammatory conclusions without any objective support.
Do you still believe there are those who are refusing to get vaccinated because of something Biden said? The evidence I gave showed that is a false conclusion.

The facts and logic are not on your side so you instead decided to show you true colors, with your Ad hominem attack. Let's try to stay on track.

 

[bkp_duke]

Ouch.

And what would you say about the governors of Florida and Texas who are making executive orders to make it harder to fight COVID AND will ACTUALLY cause people to die from their actions - ALL for political gain, as opposed to my "sociopathic ignorance and arrogance" remark? And exactly how is my remark ANY of those descriptions? What exactly was "ignorant"? What exactly was "arrogant"? AND exactly what was" sociopathic"?
Those are all hyperbolic inflammatory conclusions without any objective support.
Do you still believe there are those who are refusing to get vaccinated because of something Biden said? The evidence I gave showed that is a false conclusion.

The facts and logic are not on your side so you instead decided to show you true colors, with your Ad hominem attack. Let's try to stay on track.

Drama queen much? Anyone in those states that wants to be protected has the right to get a vaccine, free of charge. The odds of them being hospitalized after vaccine administration (2 weeks after 2nd dose) are extremely low.

You and others are pushing a political agenda at this point, not a scientific agenda.

 

[bkp_duke]

Federal judge allows health care workers in New York to apply for religious exemptions to Covid-19 vaccine mandate | CNN

A federal judge has temporarily allowed health care workers in New York to apply for religious exemptions to the state's Covid-19 vaccine mandate, according to an order.

www.cnn.com

Forget the religious part for the time being (although that is a guaranteed Constitutional Right), this I believe is the most compelling argument in the Federal Judge's entire ruling:
"Some of these plaintiffs contracted COVID while treating patients, recovered, and were allowed to return to work with the same protective measures that were good enough for the 18 months that they were the heroes in the battle against the virus. There is no ‘science’ to show that these same measures are suddenly inadequate – especially when they are allowed for those with medical exemptions."

Judge Hurd is a Clinton appointee.

Full ruling here for anyone that wants to deep dive:

https://eadn-wc01-1479010.nxedge.io/cdn/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Dr.-A-v.-Hochul-Order-GRANTING-PI-10-12-21.pdf

 

[shinytop]

A little curious here. What religion and what religious document backs religious objections to being vaccinated?

 

[bkp_duke]

A little curious here. What religion and what religious document backs religious objections to being vaccinated?

Federal judge allows health care workers in New York to apply for religious exemptions to Covid-19 vaccine mandate | CNN

A federal judge has temporarily allowed health care workers in New York to apply for religious exemptions to the state's Covid-19 vaccine mandate, according to an order.

www.cnn.com

The health care workers protesting the vaccine mandate did so because they objected to being forced to take vaccines that used "fetal cell lines" from "procured abortions."

A New York State health official confirmed in an affidavit as part of this case that fetal cell lines were used in the testing and production of current Covid-19 vaccines, according to the judge's order.

"In sum, while none of the FDA approved Covid-19 vaccines contain any fetal cells, fetal cell lines were only 'used in testing during research and development of the mRNA vaccines [Moderna or Pzifer], and during production of the Johnson and Johnson [Janssen] Vaccine,'" an affidavit from Dr. Elizabeth Rausch-Phung, medical director of the Bureau of Immunization at the New York State Department of Health, reads.


I've used these cell lines in the lab. This isn't a made up thing, they were originally developed from aborted fetuses decades ago, before I believe Bush in 2001 introduced a ban on federal funding being used for any new human embryonic stem cell lines.

These cells are pretty much immortal and can be cloned forever, so this isn't going away.


It's not an argument I agree with, but it is one based upon facts, if you are of that religious persuasion.

 

[NikolaACDC]

A little curious here. What religion and what religious document backs religious objections to being vaccinated?

This might give some answers:

Conway Regional CEO says COVID-19 religious exemption isn't an attempt to shame employees

 

[msm859]

Drama queen much? Anyone in those states that wants to be protected has the right to get a vaccine, free of charge. The odds of them being hospitalized after vaccine administration (2 weeks after 2nd dose) are extremely low.

You and others are pushing a political agenda at this point, not a scientific agenda.

Drama queen ? Now you are making Ad Hominem attacks. I expected better from you. Okay, lets keep this purely scientific.

Isn't it true if EVERY single person was vaccinated in this country deaths and illnesses would go dramatically down?
Isn't it true that if EVERY single person was vaccinated in this country we would save hundreds of millions of dollars in health care costs?
Isn't it true that if EVERY single person was vaccinated in this country our hospitals would not be denying elective surgeries.
Isn't it true that unvaccinated people are in fact currently causing the fully vaccinated to get COVID?
Isn't it true that unvaccinated people are increasing the odds of mutations? Which could cause a potentially serious variation?
Isn't it true that there are NO known scientific/medical reasons for ANYONE to not take the vaccine save and except a severe allergic reaction to the initial shot?
Isn't it true that any risks of the vaccine is far outweighed by the benefits - personally and for society?

 

[daniel]

Forget the religious part for the time being (although that is a guaranteed Constitutional Right),

[Emphasis mine.]

If you have a sincere religious belief that requires you to murder another person (as some religions contain) you do not have the right to act on that religious belief in the US or any other western nation. If you have a sincere religious belief that requires you to spit on another person you do not have the right to act on that religious belief in the US or any other western nation. If you have a sincere religious belief that requires you to deny housing to a person based on their skin color you do not have the right to act on that religious belief in the US. You do not have a right to inject a random stranger on the street with AIDS or typhus or cocaine, even if you claim that your religion requires you to do so.

And you do not have a right to go around infecting random strangers on the street with covid. Vaccination is the safest and most effective way (along with washing your hands and wearing a face mask when in public) of reducing the likelihood of infecting others. Society has a right to quarantine individuals any time there's a chance they might be carrying an infectious disease. Society has a right to quarantine anybody who refuses to get vaccinated, or to wear a face mask in public, or for that matter, to wash their hands if there was a way to determine that.

In the U.S. you have the right to believe whatever you like. You do not have the right to act on that belief if doing so would harm or restrict the rights of another person.

 

[bkp_duke]

[Emphasis mine.]

If you have a sincere religious belief that requires you to murder another person (as some religions contain) you do not have the right to act on that religious belief in the US or any other western nation. If you have a sincere religious belief that requires you to spit on another person you do not have the right to act on that religious belief in the US or any other western nation. If you have a sincere religious belief that requires you to deny housing to a person based on their skin color you do not have the right to act on that religious belief in the US. You do not have a right to inject a random stranger on the street with AIDS or typhus or cocaine, even if you claim that your religion requires you to do so.

And you do not have a right to go around infecting random strangers on the street with covid. Vaccination is the safest and most effective way (along with washing your hands and wearing a face mask when in public) of reducing the likelihood of infecting others. Society has a right to quarantine individuals any time there's a chance they might be carrying an infectious disease. Society has a right to quarantine anybody who refuses to get vaccinated, or to wear a face mask in public, or for that matter, to wash their hands if there was a way to determine that.

In the U.S. you have the right to believe whatever you like. You do not have the right to act on that belief if doing so would harm or restrict the rights of another person.

This US Federal Judge disagrees with you. To the extent he ruled that your argument is wrong.

This argument is also a slippery slope. People on the other side of this argument would use the exact same reasoning against abortion, since they view that FULLY as a life (not as something less than life as is argued by many), and that those lives don't even have a voice.

Your argument is completely a double edged sword, bear that in mind.



And you are completely ignoring that if you WANT to get vaccinated you are pretty much protected against hospitalization and death. YOU are arguing that a SMALL, INCREMENTAL improvement to YOUR HEALTH is worth completely telling someone to do something that they believe against down to the core of their being. You may not agree with their reasoning, but you don't have the right to tell them they are wrong in that reasoning, it is fully constitutionally protected.

What is something against the core of your being that you would scream at to the top of your lungs if you were forced to do against your will?

 

[bkp_duke]

Drama queen ? Now you are making Ad Hominem attacks. I expected better from you. Okay, lets keep this purely scientific.

Isn't it true if EVERY single person was vaccinated in this country deaths and illnesses would go dramatically down?
Isn't it true that if EVERY single person was vaccinated in this country we would save hundreds of millions of dollars in health care costs?
Isn't it true that if EVERY single person was vaccinated in this country our hospitals would not be denying elective surgeries.
Isn't it true that unvaccinated people are in fact currently causing the fully vaccinated to get COVID?
Isn't it true that unvaccinated people are increasing the odds of mutations? Which could cause a potentially serious variation?
Isn't it true that there are NO known scientific/medical reasons for ANYONE to not take the vaccine save and except a severe allergic reaction to the initial shot?
Isn't it true that any risks of the vaccine is far outweighed by the benefits - personally and for society?

It doesn't matter, even if you were right, scientifically. Your RIGHTS don't extend that far because you are arguing that your POSSIBLE, INCREMENTAL, SMALL benefit is greater than someone's religious rights and rights of choice. This judge, a FEDERAL JUDGE appointed by a DEMOCRAT has upheld that your view is not correct.

Whine, cry, throw a fit all you want, it won't change this ruling and that the judiciary appears to be strongly leaning against the legality of vaccine mandates.

 

[Yuri_G]

It doesn't matter, even if you were right, scientifically. Your RIGHTS don't extend that far because you are arguing that your POSSIBLE, INCREMENTAL, SMALL benefit is greater than someone's religious rights and rights of choice. This judge, a FEDERAL JUDGE appointed by a DEMOCRAT has upheld that your view is not correct.

Whine, cry, throw a fit all you want, it won't change this ruling and that the judiciary appears to be strongly leaning against the legality of vaccine mandates.

Most states have religious or personal belief exemptions for vaccine mandates. This ruling isn't overruling mandates, but following precedent.

States With Religious and Philosophical Exemptions From School Immunization Requirements

All 50 states have legislation requiring specified vaccines for students. 44 states and Washington D.C. that grant religious exemptions for people who have religious objections to immunizations.

www.ncsl.org

 

[msm859]

It doesn't matter, even if you were right, scientifically. Your RIGHTS don't extend that far because you are arguing that your POSSIBLE, INCREMENTAL, SMALL benefit is greater than someone's religious rights and rights of choice. This judge, a FEDERAL JUDGE appointed by a DEMOCRAT has upheld that your view is not correct.

Whine, cry, throw a fit all you want, it won't change this ruling and that the judiciary appears to be strongly leaning against the legality of vaccine mandates.

I am not whining, crying or throwing a fit at all. However, you refuse to answer my questions and instead want to deflect after you have accused me of politics. Forget the politics, the religion and the philosophy. I was asking the "SCIENCE" about the vaccines AND scientifically what is the CORRECT answer. I believe the science is clear - everyone should be vaccinated. Stare decisis is absolutely clear on the law. That a single judge wants to ignore that is unfortunate. But then look at what is happening in Texas where politics has infected the judiciary.