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Cooling the Performance Model 3 On Track – An Overview of Our Modified Heat Exchangers
- Thread starter MasterC17
- Start date
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Thank you
Right idea, but not exactly. I did use Model Y radiators for convenience, as I could attach factory coolant hoses to it, and Tesla parts are really cheap and look proper in the car.
However, I was still using a dedicated drivetrain radiator. An additional radiator was plumbed into the HV Battery loop. No Model 3/Y has a battery loop radiator. They all use, heat pump or not, the chiller to cool the battery loop.
I tested this extensively on pre heat pump and also on heat pump cars. It consistently drops peak pack temperatures about 10C. I can hit about 63C max without it. With it, I've never surpassed 53C. It also cools the pack much quicker post-supercharging.
Additionally, there's some software things that are needed to gain a true increase in runtime, but I am not the owner of that, and I'll let that person speak on that when they're ready.
Last edited:
Lindenwood
Active Member
So, bottom line, not only do we have the MPP (and Up) power train coolers up and running, but also some coolers dedicated to the battery loop as well?
I am waiting to hear back on if my local road course is closing :/ . If it stays open, I’ll definitely be there a lot more next year and will need some help come summer.
I am waiting to hear back on if my local road course is closing :/ . If it stays open, I’ll definitely be there a lot more next year and will need some help come summer.
Interesting, I run full regen, left foot brake and haven't noticed any lift off oversteer or nervousness. The regen was difficult to get used to as I had trouble judging the deceleration rate going into a corner and would end up using the throttle before the apex.
I'm running at 50:50 and still have the ESC turned up.. need to dial that back and see what happens. Maybe turn off the regen as well just for curiosity.
Dear admins, a few hours ago I put a lot of time & effort in typing a post asking @MasterC17 several questions re cooling. This post vanished after beeing parked some time to be approved by an admin. Pls would you unerase and activate this post?
Thanx Julius
Thanx Julius
That post was not approved because it had several requests for sales info from masterC17 who is not a vendor here, so can not talk about anything related to sales. If you want to ask him something about that, you mentioned you found his youtube channel so you will need to ask stuff like that there.
Not sure if @juliusb has a copy of the post that they made, sounds like they spent some time creating it, perhaps you could DM them a copy of their post so that they wont have to start from scratch when contacting @MasterC17 on another website/platform?
Thats a good idea. I will pm it to them.
Oh man, what a relief, thanks a lot to both of you! Now I'll try a more compliant version of my post. You are the best.
Cheers Julius
I believe my post here will help to answer your questions: Tesla Model 3/Y Thermal Limits on the Racetrack
Any sales related questions should be directed to @MountainPass
@MasterC17 dear Chris, pls let me first express my deepest appreciation for all of your hard work and achievments re optimizing the M3 for track & race and sharing your knowledge with the community!
As posted before, currently I am studying this and other TMC threads to prepare for my own future 2022 P3D track/daily build. It should perform well on Nürburgring, Hockenheimring, Salzburgring and several other tracks in Europe.
I quickly learned that after solving the braking & suspension issues, heat management / overheating / premature power cuts remain the main challenge.
In your YT-vid you mentioned max. 12 min. track time before power loss without cooling mods, and aprox. +20-50 % track time gain after your cooling mods, and significantly lower DU inverter/stator/rotor & oil temps, batt-cell temps and much quicker post-supercharging cooling.
That's great progress for sure, but you also gave us a hint to unleash even more potential with some yet "secret" SW-mods.
Would love to apply all available measures for maximum track time without power loss caused by overheating, thus being able to do 2 full hot laps on Nordschleife, respectively using most of the batteries capacity even down to low SOCs on every track.
Clearly declining SOC-levels / lower battery-volts will drop available power anyway - but thats just how EVs work.
Thus following questions:
At the end of your YT-vid you show/mention a possibility to engage/disengage the cooler-fans via seat heating icon - when, by whom and how would that be implemented?
What kind of battery-penthouse mods did you implement exactly? If it is still your "trade secret", you may answer via DM?
Finally: after implementing all your hardware cooling mods PLUS the mysterious secret SW tweak - whats your estimation on hot lap time gain based on your pre-cooling mods-spec of about 12 min. before power loss due to overheating?
Thanks a lot for your response! Cheers Julius
As posted before, currently I am studying this and other TMC threads to prepare for my own future 2022 P3D track/daily build. It should perform well on Nürburgring, Hockenheimring, Salzburgring and several other tracks in Europe.
I quickly learned that after solving the braking & suspension issues, heat management / overheating / premature power cuts remain the main challenge.
In your YT-vid you mentioned max. 12 min. track time before power loss without cooling mods, and aprox. +20-50 % track time gain after your cooling mods, and significantly lower DU inverter/stator/rotor & oil temps, batt-cell temps and much quicker post-supercharging cooling.
That's great progress for sure, but you also gave us a hint to unleash even more potential with some yet "secret" SW-mods.
Would love to apply all available measures for maximum track time without power loss caused by overheating, thus being able to do 2 full hot laps on Nordschleife, respectively using most of the batteries capacity even down to low SOCs on every track.
Clearly declining SOC-levels / lower battery-volts will drop available power anyway - but thats just how EVs work.
Thus following questions:
What are the specs of this radiator + mounting kit? Any DIY-instructions? And where could I order the necessary parts? Unfortunately they are not offered by MPP yet.
Unfortunately MPP only offers the rear oil cooler yet. Do you know if and when MPP plans to offer an additional front oil cooler kit?
At the end of your YT-vid you show/mention a possibility to engage/disengage the cooler-fans via seat heating icon - when, by whom and how would that be implemented?
What kind of battery-penthouse mods did you implement exactly? If it is still your "trade secret", you may answer via DM?
What's your status re offering installation services or selling parts/packages to overseas? If you are ready to do so, pls consider becoming a TMC-global vendor-partner, so users like me could receive infos / get your help via TMC posts without getting their posts deleted by admins
What kind of SW mods are you referring to exactly? ~2.5 years after your first mentioning you may want to reveal who could provide this service, and for which costs?
Finally: after implementing all your hardware cooling mods PLUS the mysterious secret SW tweak - whats your estimation on hot lap time gain based on your pre-cooling mods-spec of about 12 min. before power loss due to overheating?
Thanks a lot for your response! Cheers Julius
Thanks Chris, your linked essay is pure gold and delivers essential missing links for further understanding the whole plot.
At first I tought, if we only could cool down all the overheating components and liquids, power limits should disappear. Now I learned, even if we applied all the cooling, the constantly high amperage draw = high C-rates remain the limiting factor for BMS, inverters & cells. Makes absolute sense after dissolving some tunnel vision / focussing on just cooling...
My second missing link is understanding the advantage and way of working of MPPs power-limiting version of the Cooling Party Controller you mentionend in your essay linked above and in the YT-Vid with Larry Chen. Even if it's not what I and assumingly most of the members of this thread were looking for - a power limit to begin with. But it could make sense to rather have ~20 constantly driven minutes on track, then starting in full attack mode and "limping home" after a shorter time.
I also found it appealing that with applying some power limit via CPC, effiency of power usage will increase, cause little power cuts would cause disproportionate higher energy/heat loss savings. Thus, less charging per track time unit needed.
Furthermore I learned in your essay "evaluating the M3 as a track car in 2023" that MS plaid's battery cell and drive train can sustain high discharging longer than M3s. Which leaves me awaiting the implementation of this next-gen-tech in our more compact, lightweight and inexpensive M3-platform. Or/and waiting for used MS Plaid prices falling to affordable levels...
Please let me ask you this: in your essay "thermal limits of the M3/Y" you point to "MPP’s HV Battery Radiator". Your article was written 13 months before, so when may we expect the launch of this product? Ditto the front DU oil cooler?
Best whishes, thanks and cheers! Julius
There is no way that you can do 2 hot laps without overheat on the Ring. I have all possible cooling except water on radiators. 3 extra large radiators for front and back with high current fans and direct frontal airflow.
My oil temps are fine, battery is fine. It still pulls power back at 6:30 if you go for 7:30 BTG. And that adds 10-15 seconds to the timer. Also you consume 60% at such pace within one lap.
You might be able to do one 8:00 BTG and another 8:20 on a single charge. If power wouldn't drop that much with speed and no power limits, it can do ~ 7:05 BTG, but long straights killing it. It's too big track for it.
Salzburgring is better place for it. 2 hot - 1 cold is sustainable sequence with cooling and brake mods to do slightly more than 20 minutes total per charge and you have chargers on the track.
My oil temps are fine, battery is fine. It still pulls power back at 6:30 if you go for 7:30 BTG. And that adds 10-15 seconds to the timer. Also you consume 60% at such pace within one lap.
You might be able to do one 8:00 BTG and another 8:20 on a single charge. If power wouldn't drop that much with speed and no power limits, it can do ~ 7:05 BTG, but long straights killing it. It's too big track for it.
Salzburgring is better place for it. 2 hot - 1 cold is sustainable sequence with cooling and brake mods to do slightly more than 20 minutes total per charge and you have chargers on the track.
