Norbert
TSLA will win
Weren't you talking about DC for the Model S?
That would be AC 3p -> DC, which was also my question.
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Weren't you talking about DC for the Model S?
That would be AC 3p -> DC, which was also my question.
Norbert
TSLA will win
My question about flywheels is always how much energy they require to maintain their rotation. The figure he gives is an "efficiency" of 98% vs 92% for batteries. However it seems such a number would describe how much energy you get back from what you have stored, which would seem a different measure than the hourly or daily consumption of such a system.
Norbert
TSLA will win
I'm not concerned with inside vs. outside the car. dpeilow talked about the rectifier (AC 3ph -> DC) as an intermediate step. That's interesting because then you use such a rectifier always when you deal with AC 3ph. Internal or external, AC or DC, it applies to all of them.
I don't think you need a flywheel for a rotational phase converter. At its simplest you just connect the shafts of a three-phase and single-phase motor together. The main problem for this application is weight.
I wonder if first rectifying the 3 phases into DC and then (electronically) making AC single phase would work. The result could be compact enough for a portable EVSE.
Rectifier example (result of a two minute search): http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/l561.pdf
Rectifier example (result of a two minute search): http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/l561.pdf
The wikipedia article features a picture of the Enphase M190. maximum DC input is 230W, AC output is 190W, weight is 4.4lbs. See DataSheet. The idea of 3phase -> 1 phase AC conversion is to get beyond the 16A single phase 3.6kW limit, and draw full 11kW. You need 58 micro-inverters weighing 255 lbs. That's more than 3 times the SunnyBoy 11000TL.
And we need the rectifier, too.
And we need the rectifier, too.
The discussion here is how you can go from AC 3ph to AC 1ph, which you won't be doing inside a car. That will be AC 3ph -> DC > AC 1ph for the Roadster
PowerValueTM – 31
http://www.atek.dk/Support/Datablade/documents/NewavePowervalue11-317.5-20KVA.pdf
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
7.5, 10, 15 and 20kVA (three phase input and single phase output)
Size PowerValue Cabinet A (WxHxD) mm 340 x 820 x 800 (for 7.5 – 15kVA) Weight PowerValue Cabinet A w/out batt. Kg 75 (for 7.5 – 15kVA)
http://www.genesys.ro/colstatic/product/electroalimentare/Brosuri/PowerValue.pdf
For Model-S: AC 3ph > DC, single conversion, is more economic, than doble conversion 3ph AC > DC > 1ph AC, but still very expensive.
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You are right, in this type the Batterie is a option, you dont need. (Weight PowerValue Cabinet A w/out batt. Kg 75)
I tryed to avoid all kinds of extra stuff, i could not find other standard power converter.
View items of standard UPS in stock, without batteries, with all kinds of extra stuff, are cheaper, than a special power converter.
The "Converter 400V 3x16A > 240V 40A" is a special Standard 3ph/3ph frequency inverter, i only use 2 of 3 output terminals, U and V, but Tesla roadster does not accept this typ of of Grid configuration, and tesla does not support a software update for this application.
A european grid friendly charging solution,for the 4wire 3ph grid, is about 10 times more expensive, outside the roadster, than inside (onboard)
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Or you could have a 3phase motor, and a "treadmill" for the car, and just use the (re)generator already in the car:
(One nice benefit - it already would work on the Roadster which doesn't have any provision for DC fast charging.)
So you just turn the car on, and let the line powered motor force feed regen which would recharge fairly quickly.
Not the most efficient way to do it, but it is then a general purpose solution that doesn't matter about charging standards of the vehicle.
They already have devices like this all over California at the smog check stations. They run the car at a fixed speed equivalent and load to measure emissions.
I would suspect the same equipment to put a load on the car (dyno) could be changed to send power to the car.
Business opportunity for smog check stations to "future proof" them as EVs become more popular: combo smog check and/or EV regen charging station...
(Half way kidding, but maybe the idea has a little bit of merit.)