You are correct but I don't think anyone here is suggesting we hide Tesla's missteps with this issue. They are saying because Tesla hasn't handled things the way you like and may not be able to fix things to your liking before you lock in your reservation it might be better to get your refund first. Then once it is clear what your are getting and you are ok with it you can reorder.
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You are correct but I don't think anyone here is suggesting we hide Tesla's missteps with this issue. They are saying because Tesla hasn't handled things the way you like and may not be able to fix things to your liking before you lock in your reservation it might be better to get your refund first. Then once it is clear what your are getting and you are ok with it you can reorder.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
No one is saying to hide anything. I can't find a single post that says that.
You're unhappy about Tesla's communication and you're unhappy about the features. You've told Tesla that. You don't want a refund. Yes, Tesla should improve communication.
So, I guess what I don't understand is what are you asking for? If "refund is not a correct attitude", then what IS the correct action?
The issue raised is that some here have heard rumours that is happening, and we have seen definitive proof of it happening in the past. I am certainly not suggesting that is the case with the OP of this thread, but it has happened (and will continue to happen, such is human nature).
I am not lawyer, but here is the state of Hong Kong consumer laws as described by one:
The Duty Lawyer Service : Tel-Law Scheme : Administration and constitutional law
Perhaps I am coming from the 'seller' rather than the 'purchaser' side, but given that what is known is known before delivery (and payment), I think it would be hard to ask for more than a cancellation of the sale (or something equivalent). Regardless of the law, as others have said, perhaps it is best to just wait and see what happens. Certainly in six months time more will be known and the cars will be delivered for new purchasers faster then. No one is forcing anyone to buy the car now.
Sure, we can demand Tesla delivers 3rd row seats and web browsers, but given that they are seemingly illegal in Hong Kong, I really don't see it happening.
The good news, for web browser in particular, is that with the Tesla model, software features can be added later (should the law be changed or re-interpreted). We saw that with the roadster (which originally in HK didn't have brake lights on regen, but was later permitted).
My opinion of Tesla employees seems very different from yours and extremely positive. They have been looking after my car for the past three years, and have always handled it with care and professionalism. My car recently came up for yearly service - while I was away on holiday they came to my office, picked up the key, valet drove it away, serviced it perfectly, then delivered it back so it was shiny polished and ready on my return. From talking to other roadster owners, my experience here is not unique. Every Tesla HK employee I speak to has a passion for the company and the product. Compare with Nissan who we called yesterday for a simple fix to a door trim (so that the car thinks the door is open and undrive-able), and they have asked us to wait 3 weeks for an appointment (or 6 if we want a weekend).
What has been pre-revealed on these forums are rumours. Please don't take them as more than that, or blame Tesla for not adhering to them.
Now, something we can agree on. I also fail to understand why Tesla won't communicate more with all of us. Just a monthly email localised for markets that have not had deliveries start yet would be a great comfort. I am not asking for promises - just tell us what they are working on and some of the reasons it is not so easy.
Let's try to put ourselves in Tesla's shoes here. Does anyone here really think that Tesla want to fail in Hong Kong? That they want to go to the hassle of removing the web browser rather than leaving it in? That they are deliberately not supporting the 13A public sockets at launch so as to make life as difficult for owners as possible? That Elon doesn't want our kids to sit on those third row seats - the safest seats in the safest sedan on the roads?
Every change to the car specification is more work for them. It is work to remove a feature as it is to add it. The only advantage to them would be if they could save money, but I think they have shown what they think of that by their fair pricing policy (as well as things like the 0% surcharge for signatures). They could have taken advantage of the 0% FRT situation, but they didn't (Nissan example again - the leaf is US$54k vs somewhere around US$30k in USA - apples to apples comparison - and also doesn't have carwings telemetry, GPS or charge locations here in HK). What we have ended up with in the Model S is a truly price-competitive vehicle, in its segment of the market.
To me, the only reason to buy a high-end BMW / Mercedes / Audi here now is if you can't charge the car. But, that is a truly hard problem to solve, and I have yet to see a country or manufacturer that has even come close to a solution.
The driving goal of Tesla is to drive the world to a sustainable future in transportation, and I see that in every interaction I have with the company. It is a goal I share with them, although I am not affiliated with the company in any way. I want my kids to grow up in a world where they can walk down the street without being poisoned by the pollution. So, every time I see one of these hiccups raised on that path (3rd row seats, charging, browser, google maps, etc), I groan. But, I'm also willing to give Tesla the benefit of the doubt, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
What I want Tesla do is releasing all known information to all HK owners.
Also, improve and solve all existing issue till today.
I've started watching Tesla when the Roadster first came out about 5 years or so ago. I didn't know the company and the Elon Musk story at all but was very impressed by the car and really wanted one. However, I was just a university student at the time and didn't have any money to buy a car for myself. After they ended the Roadster production, there was a period when I thought Tesla is just another failed auto startup and the Roadster is nothing more than a momentary shine in the auto industry. And then the Model S came out.
At first I almost couldn't believe it: 400+ horsepower, 600Nm instant torque, a sleek and well-designed body, 0-100km in 4.something seconds, etc. But most impressive of all, the first ever electric car that can finally break the curse and able to achieve gas tank-comparable range! Since then I became very curious about the company. What's behind those technologies and innovations that allow a startup to achieve such feats that other big players haven't been able to do? Who's this Elon guy? What's Tesla trying to achieve here? What's their mission? I felt I should study this company thoroughly, and so I did. I went through their quarterly and annual reports and other SEC filings and almost any other bits of articles or news related to TSLA or Elon Musk. The more I read the more I believed I'm witnessing something spectacular. Tesla is for real and Elon's many subsequent actions have earned my trust. I became a shareholder.
On my 25th birthday in May last year, I decided to order one after a test drive in Cyberport. There have been repeated delays and I had frustrations at times too. But I understood it. Tesla is not just an auto startup, it's an EV startup. The regulations and infrastructures are simply not there yet in many markets. They don't just face difficulties in HK, they also have tremendous resistance and hurdles in the US, Europe and Mainland China. And every market has their own set of regulations, culture and electricity standards. Sure, there are many things Tesla could have done better, such as communicating more closely with existing and potential customers and staff training. There're always room to improve. But I don't feel other dealerships in HK would do a better job than Tesla did. In all honesty, my experience with Tesla's staff has been nothing short of SATISFACTORY. I had many email exchanges with Tesla and every time they were very helpful in easing my concerns and tried their best to answer my inquiries. In fact, I was astounded by the personal dedication and customer caring from Linda when she gave me a call from the US one morning to go through everything with me. That really left an impression on me even today.
I know I probably have gone a little off topic here but I thought I would share my Tesla story to all of you nevertheless. I think many of us who believe in Tesla had some similar experiences too and they continue to believe because they understand this is something special.
At first I almost couldn't believe it: 400+ horsepower, 600Nm instant torque, a sleek and well-designed body, 0-100km in 4.something seconds, etc. But most impressive of all, the first ever electric car that can finally break the curse and able to achieve gas tank-comparable range! Since then I became very curious about the company. What's behind those technologies and innovations that allow a startup to achieve such feats that other big players haven't been able to do? Who's this Elon guy? What's Tesla trying to achieve here? What's their mission? I felt I should study this company thoroughly, and so I did. I went through their quarterly and annual reports and other SEC filings and almost any other bits of articles or news related to TSLA or Elon Musk. The more I read the more I believed I'm witnessing something spectacular. Tesla is for real and Elon's many subsequent actions have earned my trust. I became a shareholder.
On my 25th birthday in May last year, I decided to order one after a test drive in Cyberport. There have been repeated delays and I had frustrations at times too. But I understood it. Tesla is not just an auto startup, it's an EV startup. The regulations and infrastructures are simply not there yet in many markets. They don't just face difficulties in HK, they also have tremendous resistance and hurdles in the US, Europe and Mainland China. And every market has their own set of regulations, culture and electricity standards. Sure, there are many things Tesla could have done better, such as communicating more closely with existing and potential customers and staff training. There're always room to improve. But I don't feel other dealerships in HK would do a better job than Tesla did. In all honesty, my experience with Tesla's staff has been nothing short of SATISFACTORY. I had many email exchanges with Tesla and every time they were very helpful in easing my concerns and tried their best to answer my inquiries. In fact, I was astounded by the personal dedication and customer caring from Linda when she gave me a call from the US one morning to go through everything with me. That really left an impression on me even today.
I know I probably have gone a little off topic here but I thought I would share my Tesla story to all of you nevertheless. I think many of us who believe in Tesla had some similar experiences too and they continue to believe because they understand this is something special.
Tesla is a great company on products. In some points, I do agree what you mentioned.
I think there are still lots of room to improve. What I want to point out is improvment is required in TMHK. I know many customers complianted to TMHK like me. (They told me I am only one in many of those.) What I can tell is there are problems in communications and attitude to customers and even inside. (Sorry that I cannot say much, but there are much things other than that.)
Well written, Mark and CCT. No need for me to add more than +1 to both of your posts.
cyrushk, it's great that you feel better after complaining, but what will you actually gain from it? Will you get a better car, will you be awarded compensation or will your life be more complete? Sorry for sounding harsh, but it's hard for me to see what your quest is.
I am disappointed too, not as much in Tesla, but rather with HK Legco (or what they are called) saying one intention about clean air and EVs, yet at the same time blocking it or at least, not doing enough if they are really serious about it. And the Transport Department, and customs. All do their part to resist the change.
If it wasn't for companies like Tesla Motors (and the people behind it), we would still be living in caves, fighting with clubs and pulling our women by the hair!
Now, because of evolution, we have nuclear and chemical weapons, coal power plants, diesel and petrol cars and ... oh, well, it's not all about evolution that is to the better. So why not make it to the better? The ICE cars have had their time, horses are a bit outdated so - why not embrace EVs? I am sure the same fight will be going on again in the next century, for yet the next step up in green-ness.
Instead of complaining to Tesla Motors HK, how about putting pressure on the government, private/public car parks and the transport department? Do write newspapers about the lack of progress, but your energy towards those who are fighting the hardest fight for the better change, are hardly the ones to target. If you had an accident, and the ambulance was later, would you complain to the ambulance - or the road planning authorities for not ensuring roads are passable for emergency vehicles?
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I do wholeheartedly agree that TM HK should make a regular newsletter, as Mark suggested. Surely, they cannot promise us something which are beyond their control, yet an update into highlights of what is going on would help calm us down - rather than individual emails and answered phone calls from various buyers.
cyrushk, it's great that you feel better after complaining, but what will you actually gain from it? Will you get a better car, will you be awarded compensation or will your life be more complete? Sorry for sounding harsh, but it's hard for me to see what your quest is.
I am disappointed too, not as much in Tesla, but rather with HK Legco (or what they are called) saying one intention about clean air and EVs, yet at the same time blocking it or at least, not doing enough if they are really serious about it. And the Transport Department, and customs. All do their part to resist the change.
If it wasn't for companies like Tesla Motors (and the people behind it), we would still be living in caves, fighting with clubs and pulling our women by the hair!
Now, because of evolution, we have nuclear and chemical weapons, coal power plants, diesel and petrol cars and ... oh, well, it's not all about evolution that is to the better. So why not make it to the better? The ICE cars have had their time, horses are a bit outdated so - why not embrace EVs? I am sure the same fight will be going on again in the next century, for yet the next step up in green-ness.
Instead of complaining to Tesla Motors HK, how about putting pressure on the government, private/public car parks and the transport department? Do write newspapers about the lack of progress, but your energy towards those who are fighting the hardest fight for the better change, are hardly the ones to target. If you had an accident, and the ambulance was later, would you complain to the ambulance - or the road planning authorities for not ensuring roads are passable for emergency vehicles?
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I do wholeheartedly agree that TM HK should make a regular newsletter, as Mark suggested. Surely, they cannot promise us something which are beyond their control, yet an update into highlights of what is going on would help calm us down - rather than individual emails and answered phone calls from various buyers.
But if you don't get that in time you'll still lock in your order and hope for the best? I and others have suggested until you are happy with the answers Tesla provides and are confident the car you are being delivered is what was promised might be best to not lock your order in.
I will have my own choice once their management reply me and see what they will do in my market.
I dun think we should give a low standard or being too easy to Tesla as it is a game changer to car industry/ environment. Promise is important in anyway.
Even I am a fan of Tesla, we still making a deal with TM. Promises to customers should be done or if there are any reason to change, announcement to customers are required!
If they cannot commit their promise, there is no room to make excuses and just let it easy pass.
If I dun care Tesla and dun love Tesla. I dun see I need to do so many! I can simply leave Tesla.
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No one is arguing that Tesla shouldn't keep their promises or if they can't live up to them, at least give some explanation. I and others have said that if you do not get answers that make you happy about your order before you have to lock your order in, you should cancel your reservation or go forward with the understanding small parts of the car could change before delivery due to local laws.
From the RHD test drive today, which was very nice, just like the last one, I met up with users mchk and kelvin12382003
kelvin12382003 and his family went in the back seat of my test drive, which was released earlier (like 4:45 or so). When we came back, we met mchk, and even though he didn't plan to test drive today, I offered him my position, as I already test drove it one hour earlier. Of he went, me and his daughter in the back seat. Oh, man, did we smoke a Maserati convertible, the P85 is indescribable!
mchk and myself went for dinner after the meet, down at Stanley (waterfront). Very nice day - a good boost to make the waiting for the Tesla model S easier!
Videos later, after I have edited. I might show for the test drives on Wednesday, and see if I can place the GoPro on the car on some of the drives - as now I have some more ideas where to place if for the best view.
I was asked to ask "how about the Google maps?"
And we learned the following: This is really hearsay and rumour, please do NOT take it as anything official.
It SEEMS like there will be Google maps in HK, while Chinese mainland customers will get a hard disk / memory card map (maybe with traffic overlay?).
Note that this is still a work in progress. Tesla Motors are dedicated to make the car the best it can be, considering the local market, its regulatory limitations and other details. There are many things to consider, and I am entirely convinced that TM would give the car out with ALL the possible options, if it wasn't for constraints like Traffic Department regulations, safety issues, mobile chargers safety against fires and burn-outs etc.
It is vital that TM ensures the best possible product, and the most satisfied customers.
Now if they would only make that newsletter, so we could get more consistent and coordinated updates instead of "I talked to X Y today, and s/he said that at the moment bla bla bla".
kelvin12382003 and his family went in the back seat of my test drive, which was released earlier (like 4:45 or so). When we came back, we met mchk, and even though he didn't plan to test drive today, I offered him my position, as I already test drove it one hour earlier. Of he went, me and his daughter in the back seat. Oh, man, did we smoke a Maserati convertible, the P85 is indescribable!
mchk and myself went for dinner after the meet, down at Stanley (waterfront). Very nice day - a good boost to make the waiting for the Tesla model S easier!
Videos later, after I have edited. I might show for the test drives on Wednesday, and see if I can place the GoPro on the car on some of the drives - as now I have some more ideas where to place if for the best view.
I was asked to ask "how about the Google maps?"
And we learned the following: This is really hearsay and rumour, please do NOT take it as anything official.
It SEEMS like there will be Google maps in HK, while Chinese mainland customers will get a hard disk / memory card map (maybe with traffic overlay?).
Note that this is still a work in progress. Tesla Motors are dedicated to make the car the best it can be, considering the local market, its regulatory limitations and other details. There are many things to consider, and I am entirely convinced that TM would give the car out with ALL the possible options, if it wasn't for constraints like Traffic Department regulations, safety issues, mobile chargers safety against fires and burn-outs etc.
It is vital that TM ensures the best possible product, and the most satisfied customers.
Now if they would only make that newsletter, so we could get more consistent and coordinated updates instead of "I talked to X Y today, and s/he said that at the moment bla bla bla".
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Had a great time meeting up with you DITB! During my talk Andrew from sales said he wasn't promising Google maps but he was hopeful. He also mentioned a super charger with 6 bays will be in cyberport this summer and a second one is going to be in kowloon. He said the more cars they sell the more super chargers they will build.
The test drive was amazing!!! Boy did we fly by that maserati like it was standing still!! When he finally would catch up to us when I would stop to turn in seconds he would disappear when I hit the accelerator again. What a rush! Once you have had a taste of this car it's hard to go back. Love it!!
The test drive was amazing!!! Boy did we fly by that maserati like it was standing still!! When he finally would catch up to us when I would stop to turn in seconds he would disappear when I hit the accelerator again. What a rush! Once you have had a taste of this car it's hard to go back. Love it!!
Yes, it was nice.
I am currently looking at the video, but it's late, so I might wait until tomorrow to finish it.
I got the same understanding about Google Maps. The problem is if it doesn't come with Google Maps, even if TM HK decides "It's a better user experience that way", then there will be more disappointment.
Right now, it's a waiting and patience game. Let's see what happens.
I keep pestering about preparing the car for installing rear facing seats later on, when the legislation has been made real-world-compliant and not desktop red tape bureaucratic obstructed (the tycoons of HK are strong here!).
This thread is about customer service and complaints. All I can say is that today I got yet another confirmation that these people are really working their butts off, to do what they can to make TM successful and the model S the best possible car. I am so confident that despite uncertainties, all will be fine, and we will be very happy.
