Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[RichardC]

Each country and culture has its own particular hot-button terms, which may be successfully invoked to forestall reasoned discussion. I am concerned, in the US, that the concept of “free speech” has been successfully manipulated to have such status by those with a strong commercial interest in lying to the public. As a result, any discussion of accountability for intentional commercial deceit now seems to be offside. Contrast the current state of affairs with that prevailing at the time of the Phillip Morris case, when similar forms of coordinated intentional deceit against the public interest was successfully prosecuted under RICO.

What is it that those of us who are:

1. familiar with the science and the seriousness of the imminent and avoidable threat posed by manmade climate change;
2. concerned that the expenditures of billions of dollars to intentionally lie to the public about the problem (typically through “dark money” vehicles used to conceal the identity of those funding the misrepresentations) is having the desired effect of confusing the public and forestalling effective action in the public interest;
3. being told that attacking those who are lying to the public will be counterproductive as it is contrary to the US free speech fetish; and
4. also told that, in this confused environment, providing scientifically accurate (but frightening) warnings about climate change will turn the public off and prevent effective action,

supposed to do to advance the public interest agenda?

 

[Vger]

To open up another area of concern here, it is now apparent that the profound and extremely serious drought that has engulfed California the last few years has now spread north to Oregon, Washington state, and British Columbia, Canada. The alteration of the climate is causing much larger effects much sooner than many people realize. We are going to see significant damage to quality of life AND the economy within the next few years, not just in the decades to come!

Washington Drought 2015 | Washington State Department of Ecology, drought declaration, snow pack, drought forecast

Water Resources Department Drought Watch


California drought crisis could come to B.C., says UBC professor - British Columbia - CBC News

Living Water Smart B.C.'s Water Plan

 

[Raffy.Roma]

What is it that those of us who are:

1. familiar with the science and the seriousness of the imminent and avoidable threat posed by manmade climate change;
2. concerned that the expenditures of billions of dollars to intentionally lie to the public about the problem (typically through “dark money” vehicles used to conceal the identity of those funding the misrepresentations) is having the desired effect of confusing the public and forestalling effective action in the public interest;
3. being told that attacking those who are lying to the public will be counterproductive as it is contrary to the US free speech fetish; and
4. also told that, in this confused environment, providing scientifically accurate (but frightening) warnings about climate change will turn the public off and prevent effective action,

supposed to do to advance the public interest agenda?

Well said Richard. What are we supposed to do?

I am afraid that the answer to this question is waiting till 2050 and in the case (very probable) that the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere will be 550 p.m. ask for geoengineering I am afraid.

 

[beeeerock]

What are we supposed to do?

Well, the first answer to that is 'something, instead of simply wringing our hands about it', which we're doing plenty of right here! ;-)

My plan falls into line with 'think globally, act locally'.

Step One: Position yourself to lead by example. I'm not a political person, so my purchase of the Model S and the solar panels that are planned for the summer let me lead by example. Nobody will be able to say I'm preaching change without living it myself.

Step Two: Become an intelligent and calm agitator. Have discussions whenever possible, without getting excited and coming off like a nutjob. Don't rely on statistics or science to make your argument - most people aren't smart enough to understand much of that and will simply tune you out.

Step Three: Really, part of Step Two... use this video (now 8 years old!!!) as a possible guide to how to make your argument, if opportunity allows you to go with the visual aids, because it really explains the cost of doing nothing versus doing something - even IF we're wrong about climate change:

[video]https://youtu.be/zORv8wwiadQ[/video]

Step Four: Also part of Step Two... seek meetings with your local politicians. In my case, my local MP came to a business open house my company hosted just as she was starting her first election campaign in 2008. She was a newbie politician and made the mistake of asking me what I thought the main issues were. I told her it was clean energy and energy self-sufficiency. She was hoping I would say Universal Child Care, or Health... because she was ready for those ones... but I told her the other things didn't matter at all if we couldn't sort out the big problems that would decide whether we would continue to exist - or not. She had no answer and was clearly out of her depth with the issue. I knew then that we were in big trouble. I intend to get 10 minutes of her time in the next few months and remind her of our conversation... and ask her what she's done to address it. "Nothing", is the honest answer, but I'll let her tell me that herself.

Finally, put yourself in places where the conversations will happen. Car shows... taking the time to talk to people who see you supercharging... every opportunity counts. I explain why I bought the car and how much I love it. I tell people that I haven't seen leadership from any political party in any country on Climate Change, so I've realized it's up to the people of the planet to make the change. We aren't handcuffed by big business and we're able to think for ourselves. We need to pressure government at all levels to lead as they were elected to do. I ask them to ponder whether they think, honestly, that there will be a livable planet for their kids and grandkids if things don't change.

It's a careful balance between being an advocate and being a zealot. I tailor my comments to suit my estimation of the person I'm talking to. I don't want to alienate them, only get them thinking.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@beeeerock

Agree 100%.

Problem is that doing all the things that you are mentioning is very difficult in Italy. Here people are not very much interested in the Climate Change/Global Warming issue and, what's most important, people are not absolutely willing to invest money on this matter. But all the points that you mentioned are good and I will focus on them for my activity expecially after (and if) I will work out my problem of work. (To this concern see, if you wish, my thread on this matter in the Off Topic section.)

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@beeeerock

Agree 100%.

Problem is that doing all the things that you are mentioning is very difficult in Italy. Here people are not very much interested in the Climate Change/Global Warming issue and, what's most important, people are not absolutely willing to invest money on this matter. But all the points that you mentioned are good and I will focus on them for my activity expecially after (and if) I will work out my problem of work. (To this concern see, if you wish, my thread on this matter in the Off Topic section.)

But I would like to say that my question: "What are we supposed to do?"

was referred to the matter of Free Speech raised by Richard.

 

[3mp_kwh]

But I would like to say that my question: "What are we supposed to do?"

was referred to the matter of Free Speech raised by Richard.

If you're talking about what an Exxon CEO can say, I'd guess there's no room to pursue that. He's just trotting out what others like to believe. I don't think this is a free speech issue. We're coming much further along with being able to make choices that express our beliefs, on CO2. Not in every nation, but the time is coming where both the BEV and ICE driver more frequently have to explain what is obvious about them, to people whose views they'll have no idea about. That is fortunately not a comfortable spot to be in. If we didn't have the power to choose renewable electricity supply, or make these other choices, I suppose maybe there could be a need to do some "amending". I just don't believe, in the U.S. anyway, that we are that Plutocratic. It's bad, just not "free speech" bad.

 

[beeeerock]

I don't know if this link has been posted in any other thread yet, but some of the initial 'history' is quite interesting as it applies to economics and such...:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html

The rest is very good too, if quite long!

 

[tigerade]

I don't know if this link has been posted in any other thread yet, but some of the initial 'history' is quite interesting as it applies to economics and such...:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html

The rest is very good too, if quite long!

I thought the article overall was very good and enjoyable to read. The climate change section was a pretty good layman's explanation of the big picture. It has 13K shares so I am loving that people are being exposed to the science, even if the science is being presented in a simple and entertaining way.

 

[deonb]

To open up another area of concern here, it is now apparent that the profound and extremely serious drought that has engulfed California the last few years has now spread north to Oregon, Washington state, and British Columbia, Canada. The alteration of the climate is causing much larger effects much sooner than many people realize. We are going to see significant damage to quality of life AND the economy within the next few years, not just in the decades to come!

Actually... quality of life in the Pacific North West has improved over the last few years. We've had 45 consecutive days of sunshine last year, which we've never had before. My wife was bummed not having a white Christmas, but other than that it was nice being able to put up Christmas lights in shorts and a T-Shirt.

As per economy, the guy who installed our air conditioning system last year certainly thinks that business is booming. And I'm sure people who install desalination plants are salivating at the thought of what's going on in California.


But my larger point is this - anytime anybody links a negative localized event directly to global warming, you give fodder to someone else to link an opposing localized event directly to disprove global warming, and you concede the high ground. Your alter-ego can easily now take what you said and say: "But look at Boston!", at which point if you point out the difference between seasonal localized weather and climate, you sound hypocritical.


My favorite analogy: if a fridge magnet falls off the fridge, don't point to it as prove that the magnetic poles of the earth are shifting.

 

[dhrivnak]

@beeeerock

Agree 100%.

Problem is that doing all the things that you are mentioning is very difficult in Italy. Here people are not very much interested in the Climate Change/Global Warming issue and, what's most important, people are not absolutely willing to invest money on this matter. But all the points that you mentioned are good and I will focus on them for my activity expecially after (and if) I will work out my problem of work. (To this concern see, if you wish, my thread on this matter in the Off Topic section.)

I disagree. If you personally have not made the changes to live CO2 free how can you possibly convince others? For me the Tesla has been a great way to open the door. People show a genuine interest. Then explain how you power the cool car and the house with solar and they seem to get it. Sustainability can be good and cool.

 

[ZsoZso]

I have solar PV and 2 EVs, but I am not satisfied, because my house is still heated by nat.gas and built the usual standard Canadian way (which is not sustainable at all and the insulation is a joke not to mention the forced-air heating system).

So I am actively seeking to buy the right piece of land where I can build a proper sustainable home: passive solar with some geothermal heat-pump for the very cold winter days, with solar PV + wind turbine for electricity generation and battery backup (off-grid). Large heat capacity inside the house (using building materials selected for that property + water columns), very high R-rating insulation outside the walls, south facing wall mostly glass: 2x argon filled triple glazing with sealed air-pocket between the 2 layers. Ventilation of the house provided by Earth-tubes snaking deep under the foundation. Once I complete this project, I'll be proud to be leading by example.

 

[dhrivnak]

Wonderful ZoeZoe. Starting from scratch it is not hard to do it right. We built with ICF's (Insulating Concrete Forms) and Structural Insulating Panels SIP's for the roof. Throw in passive solar orientation and your heating needs are minimal. Www.hrivnak.com

 

[ggies07]

I'm putting this in here for the part that I put in Bold because it goes along with the Wait, but Why article.

At OPEC theSaudi Oil Minister Mainly Wants to Discuss Solar Power - Bloomberg Business

It's interesting because just two weeks ago, while on a panel in Paris, the minister spoke at length about the nation's ambitious plans to push into solar power, recognizing that one day its fossil fuel exports will end. Al-Naimi said Saudi Arabia will be exporting lots of electricity, rather than oil.

 

[beeeerock]

So I am actively seeking to buy the right piece of land where I can build a proper sustainable home:

Very interesting! My first house was EKOSE'A and I learned quite a significant amount about what works and - more importantly - what doesn't. I'm now in a house that is more typical in construction, but heated/cooled with a geo-exchange system. Very sustainable (actually more so than the EKOSE home in reality) in that natural gas is used for the stove and BBQ only.

Feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to hear about my experiences!

- - - Updated - - -

I'm putting this in here for the part that I put in Bold because it goes along with the Wait, but Why article.

At OPEC theSaudi Oil Minister Mainly Wants to Discuss Solar Power - Bloomberg Business

Fantastic and surprising at the same time. I've wondered many times what would happen to the OPEC states when their livelihood disappeared. In all that land of sun and sand and not much else, they'd have to fall back to exporting egg timers... but solar is an obvious move that they should really be building out in a big way now, while they have the oil revenues to pay for it all. They think they have the tiger by the tail with all the oil under their sand, but the potential game-changer is actually the sun and open space suitable for solar. Even if they didn't 'export' the electricity in a big way, they could be using it for hydrogen production (which may or may not be the best choice but will likely play a role in all reality).

 

[ggr]

Presidential candidate and "devout catholic" tells the Pope that he's wrong about climate change. Delusions of grandeur?

rick-santorum-pope-climat_n_7498768
Santorum-vs-Pope-on-global-war

 

[ggies07]

I really like what this young guy says and how he's taking a stand for his generation to help our situation. There is a short video at the top of the article of him talking on the subject.


YouTube film-maker Finn Harries: my generation must save the planet | Environment | The Guardian

As architecture design students we are taught to constantly question and reimagine the way things are. We’re taught that the world we live in is not a given. It’s the result of the best efforts our ancestors could muster at that time. If it has flaws, it is up to our generation to pick up where they left off and create the world we want to see for ourselves and our children.

 

[EchoDelta]

I have solar PV and 2 EVs, but I am not satisfied, because my house is still heated by nat.gas and built the usual standard Canadian way (which is not sustainable at all and the insulation is a joke not to mention the forced-air heating system).

So I am actively seeking to buy the right piece of land where I can build a proper sustainable home: passive solar with some geothermal heat-pump for the very cold winter days, with solar PV + wind turbine for electricity generation and battery backup (off-grid). Large heat capacity inside the house (using building materials selected for that property + water columns), very high R-rating insulation outside the walls, south facing wall mostly glass: 2x argon filled triple glazing with sealed air-pocket between the 2 layers. Ventilation of the house provided by Earth-tubes snaking deep under the foundation. Once I complete this project, I'll be proud to be leading by example.

Great direction! A lot of those choices contain a lot of embodied energy, but within that choice seems like a lot of patterns. Does the wind turbine pay off where you are at? I nixed mine, the payoff wasn't there when I saw I could bump storage of solar a notch (Pacific Northwest here).

For buying the right land, I suggest you look closely at sun orientation and enough but too much slope and running water, valley and ondulating terrains will help w water storage and gravity differential. Are you planning to just build a house or do a permaculture-style homestead?

 

[Raffy.Roma]

In Italy it's raining and hailing heavily under the sun now!

When you say Climate Change......

 

[ggies07]

This is a great letter from Bill McKibben to Obama:

McKibben to Obama: You still have time to be a climate champion but not much | Grist

Love the last bit:

The sad part of this battle, for all of us, is that physics doesn’t really care about political realities — about how tough Congress has been, or for that matter how burned out and tired some of the rest us can get. Physics just cares about carbon. Reality reality trumps political reality.