Maybe. But millions more could find a place for one that made road trips as effortless as a modern Tesla does, which is the point of the discussion you're complaining about - especially if GM dreams of competing with the 3 at the same price point with this car.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
Maybe. But millions more could find a place for one that made road trips as effortless as a modern Tesla does, which is the point of the discussion you're complaining about - especially if GM dreams of competing with the 3 at the same price point with this car.
I don't see GM as trying to compete with the 3; I see both companies competing for the 100's of million of new car buyers out there. Even the amount of people/companies/municipalities that want an electric car that won't be perceived as luxury is likely large.
So you're saying that you believe a significant number of people would choose to buy a less capable car for more money because it *isn't* perceived as luxury/sleek/sexy?
That's quite a reversal from how I thought these things worked, and seems to cast doubt on a lot of marketing strategies I've seen...
I see it as a niche in the market. Even if they were cheaper, I could only image the uproar if my town bought BMW's or Teslas for their parking maids. A lot of companies would also likely have a problem with supplying their lower level employees with a car perceived as luxury. I'm not saying this is a major factor, just one niche GM may take advantage of.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Its ugliness is not the main issue I have with the Bolt. It is its lack of TACC. One year with a Tesla has completely spoiled me. I don't want another ICE or a car without at minimum TACC. Autosteer is wonderful but not critical, IMO.
What is GM thinking by leaving that feature off?
What is GM thinking by leaving that feature off?
As sagehost has posted, your speculation is groundless. The leaf already fulfills the role you're envisioning for the bolt and is cheaper than the bolt, and yet there aren't that many families who take advantage of it.
Mine is one of those families, with a commuter EV and a long-range vacation minivan, and have been advocating this arrangement for years. Despite having sufficient range for their daily needs, the #1 issue was range, and those families will be won over by the bolt. But do you want to guess what #2 complaint was? The leaf looks dorky.
Of the families who have a commuter EV, do you want to guess what they need out of their next vehicle? Long-range charging access for vacation trips.
Trust sagehost's data over your own speculation. Or at least acknowledge that the real comparison in your example isn't the model 3, but a leaf or the new focus EV. Everyone else wants a long range EV, ala model 3
It is a bit of a mystery. I suspect it is just timing.
GM has been a bit slow on support for radar-based ACC and added it to an early introduction 2017 model of the Volt this spring after missing the 2016 model year deadline.
I suspect that radar-based ACC will be an option on the 2018 Bolt EV.
Sadly, no. It seems that people who had their cars built earlier this week have moved to "status 4000" or ready to be placed on a carrier for delivery but my car that was built just over 2 weeks ago is still sitting at the "status 3800" or car produced level.Is your Bolt on a train yet, Jeff N?
This is typical of what happened with my Volt (VIN 42) that was built in early November of 2010 when it and other early-built cars stayed in a several week QA state before getting to dealers. However, in 2010 my status stubbornly never showed the car being shipped from the factory.... ever. I kept seeing more recently built cars going on to the rail carriers and being traced as they got closer and closer to California (customers could do that back then) while my car sat at code 3800 supposedly at the factory.
Then it suddenly arrived at my dealer ahead of the other cars. It turned out that my dealer officially delivered the first Volt in Northern California and GM put on a media event with the first customer in front of TV cameras. My car just happened to be at the same dealer so they put both of our cars and a few others on trucks in order to ship them out faster than rail but never updated the status code for my VIN.
Last edited:
GM is holding that card close to it's chest. Best guess is the new braking system lengthened the development.
But the Bolt's AEB is actually the safety feature, not ACC. ACC can be used as DDA. Distracted Driving Assist. Allowing you to play with your phone, read, sleep, put on makeup, etc, while driving.
We do know that distracted driving has passed drunk driving as the #1 killer of drivers, and the #1 killer of young people overall.
We are teaching our dogs to poop on the sidewalk in the hope everybody picks up their dung.
diamond.g
Active Member
I thought the Bolt used the same braking system that Tesla uses.
The Bolt uses the same braking setup as the Gen 2 Volt actually (same supplier, Bosch), so you'd think it'd be not too difficult to outfit Bolts with ACC.
Maybe MY2018 will have some version of Supercruise? NHTSA Issues Safety Guidelines for GM’s Super Cruise System - HybridCars.com
Not really. The Bolt will have multiple methods of regen, and some of the brake travel is used for regen calibration.
But in the end, if you mash the brakes violently, it's hyd, ABS, SC. GM is extremely talented at writing code for these integrated systems.
AFAIK, the GM system does a couple tricks Tesla cannot. It has a manual regen assist paddle, and 3 ranges of regen, D mode, L mode, light brake mode.
This is perhaps why a GM can pump 60kW of electric retard into a car that is 1000lb less with much smaller tires and battery.
A P90 should be able to hit 125kW of regen peak since 18kWh of battery can do 60kWh.
Supercruise will be interesting. What can GM do if they want to set a new benchmark level for ACC? If it's anything like the jump that occurred when they released Active Handling on a 175mph sports car, it will be a big jump in tech.
Indeed. All new cars need AEB, IMO. I'm happy to hear that GM didn't drop the ball there.
For a vehicle with a base cost upward from $30k, you'd think they'd go ahead and add the hardware and put software plans in place for TACC. But the model to implement new features with software updates has not been GM's. They are good with fixing safety problems via recalls though.
Also, I'm thinking they weighed the cost of delaying delivery and opted to just get an affordable long-range EV out there before Tesla.
I want GM (and all EV manufacturers) to succeed but this omission makes me sad.
When I got my HPWC back in May one of the installation options was to use two phases of a 480V three phase and I think the resulting voltage was 277V. I didn't look at it very closely because I was lucky to get 240V/48A single phase out of our box without major electrical work. I don't know where the manual went at the moment.
The HPWC supports a large number of installation options. Tesla uses them for destination chargers too and some of those have three phase available on the property. I expect that the HPWCs at many Tesla facilities are 277V.
For car shoppers comparing the Model 3 to the Bolt is like comparing a Toyota Yaris with a Ford Fusion. The size difference is about the same. There aren't many car shoppers out there agonizing over whether to get a Yaris or a Fusion.
The only reason people compare the Bolt and the Model 3 at all is that they are both electric. It's more of the EV ghetto thinking. The car industry has successfully ghettoized EVs into a niche of eco buyers and incentive seekers. The rest of the car buying public ignores them, even a lot of hybrid buyers aren't quite willing to go the extra step and abandon the ICE under the hood.
Tesla is the only company that has broken out of that ghetto. I admit to only being a mild eco buyer. I was not shopping for EVs. I started out looking at full ICE, but wanted a bit better mileage than what was available. Hybrids were mostly gutless as were the more economical ICE. I don't need super acceleration, but I want something decent enough to get on the freeway without being lunched.
I looked at the Model S on a lark and here I am. I would never seriously consider a Bolt, Leaf, i3, or any other EV out there. All but Tesla's offerings are compromised designs intended to only appeal to the eco/incentive buyer. They are all ugly things that scream to the world "I'm driving an ugly EV!", they are all small, and none are capable of a long distance road trip today. The Bolt may have a network in a couple of years, but 2018 would be 5 years after Tesla solved the problem.
The Model 3 should be compared to a Camry, Fusion, Impala, Accord, etc. That's what it really lines up against. It will be a bit more expensive, but it fills the niche of the mid-sized family sedan. I have a neighbor who wants a Model 3. He has a long commute of an hour each way and his gasoline bills are eating his wallet. He's currently driving an older Camry. For him the extra price of the car would be offset with lower fuel bills.
Right now most of the Model 3 reservation holders here are mostly people who have been following Tesla for a while and are enthusiasts for one reason or another. That population will probably make the Model 3 one of the biggest car successes in recent history. What might make it one of the very top car successes in history will be the mainstream ICE midi-szed sedan and other family vehicle buyers who switch to a Model 3. That will make the Model 3 a game changer on the scale of the Model T.
The Bolt may turn out to be the best non-Tesla EV to date, but it's kind of like being the best blues musician in the 1950s. Some people know of them and maybe they really are great musicians, but the mainstream music market doesn't even know that kind of music exists, or if they do, they never would listen to it. It took the revolution of the 60s when British musicians influenced by American blues became popular in the US that the mainstream noticed this genre of music in it's native country.
jgs
Active Member
Yes. I attribute it to being the only pure-play EV company shipping vehicles. Nobody else is all-in, they're dipping in a toe and it compromises them in some way -- if not vehicle design (though it always has so far, DCFC as an option, really?) then driving ecosystem (charging network) or sales experience.
It's like the chicken and the pig in the bacon and eggs breakfast. Or something.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
80 or so Bolts going to NYC, the city got a good deal. Must be nice to order in bulk.
New York buying 80 Chevy Bolts, with help from Obama
New York buying 80 Chevy Bolts, with help from Obama
I don't disagree with most of what you're saying - actually I think you made some great points here - but given that Tesla told us the BMW 3 series and Audi A4 are their reference targets and that those are priced about the same as the 3, I'm not sure why you're suggesting comparing to the ICE class below that.
Similar threads
