Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[anticitizen13.7]

With notable exceptions, I'm pretty disappointed with this group. This is the sort of thing that Elon was hoping for and is exactly what is needed to advance EVs. We need major manufactures making a commitment to 'real' EVs. Of course it's no as sexy as a Model X or S...it's also half the price. No it won't compete with a Model 3, so what...the Prius doesn't compete with an i8 either. Yes, they're pretty short of specifics and the looming question of an internet charging infrastructure needs to be answered.

Ok, well, if the big automakers don't want to go for "sexy", could they at least go for normal looking?

If, for example, Ford showcased an EV SUV that looked like the Ford Escape, or Honda made a skateboard-platform EV that looks like a Fit or CR-V, I'd be raising a glass of champagne and wishing them success. I don't want to drive some weirdo car from bizzaro land, and I don't think most car buyers want that either.

 

[scaesare]

With notable exceptions, I'm pretty disappointed with this group. This is the sort of thing that Elon was hoping for and is exactly what is needed to advance EVs. We need major manufactures making a commitment to 'real' EVs. Of course it's no as sexy as a Model X or S...it's also half the price. No it won't compete with a Model 3, so what...the Prius doesn't compete with an i8 either. Yes, they're pretty short of specifics and the looming question of an internet charging infrastructure needs to be answered.

But, as a group, the most important thing we can do is give GM positive feedback on this effort, imperfect though it might be. By doing so it will put pressure on Toyota, Nissan, Ford and others to meet the demand.
I may well be in the market for a Bolt for my kids, warts and all, if they answer some of the remaining questions to my satisfaction. This is a positive step forward and we should all recognize and support it as such.

Indeed. It seems that many here feel that for Tesla to ultimately to succeed, others have to fail.

I don't believe that to be the case... particularly if the criteria for success is "wide spread adoption of EV's". Elon has said similar.

It's a huge market. There are people who buy Civics and Altimas. There are also people who buy Fits and Versas. There's room for many players... moreso there's a very good likelihood that that the EV market as a whole will only ultimately survive ONLY if there are multiple players...

 

[TEG]

But, as a group, the most important thing we can do is give GM positive feedback on this effort, imperfect though it might be. By doing so it will put pressure on Toyota, Nissan, Ford and others to meet the demand...

Yes! I think most of the nit-picks are critical in two areas:
#1: Minor annoyances with specific styling details.
#2: Concerns that it is partial vaporware and not close to production yet.
Both of these can be fixed before the expected release date.
Generally it seems a step in the right direction, and not too bad a concept to roughly show us what they plan to do.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

It's a huge market. There are people who buy Civics and Altimas. There are also people who buy Fits and Verses. There's room for many players... moreso there's a very good likelihood that that the EV market as a whole will only ultimately survive ONLY if there are multiple players...

Civic driver here. Again, this is not about wanting GM to fail. To me at least, this is about being angry that car makers seem to think that EV customers are wierdos with weird taste.

Honda went the right direction with the FCX Clarity fuel cell car a couple years ago. Yes, it did look somewhat futuristic, but it was elegant and familiar to anyone who has owned a Honda Accord. If car makers want mass acceptance of EVs, they have to design EVs that have mass appeal, and not go the route of trying to stand out too much, like Pontiac Aztec.

 

[aronth5]

Indeed. It seems that many here feel that for Tesla to ultimately to succeed, others have to fail.

I don't believe that to be the case... particularly if the criteria for success is "wide spread adoption of EV's". Elon has said similar.

It's a huge market. There are people who buy Civics and Altimas. There are also people who buy Fits and Verses. There's room for many players... moreso there's a very good likelihood that that the EV market as a whole will only ultimately survive ONLY if there are multiple players...

With notable exceptions, I'm pretty disappointed with this group. This is the sort of thing that Elon was hoping for and is exactly what is needed to advance EVs. We need major manufactures making a commitment to 'real' EVs. Of course it's no as sexy as a Model X or S...it's also half the price. No it won't compete with a Model 3, so what...the Prius doesn't compete with an i8 either. Yes, they're pretty short of specifics and the looming question of an internet charging infrastructure needs to be answered.

But, as a group, the most important thing we can do is give GM positive feedback on this effort, imperfect though it might be. By doing so it will put pressure on Toyota, Nissan, Ford and others to meet the demand.
I may well be in the market for a Bolt for my kids, warts and all, if they answer some of the remaining questions to my satisfaction. This is a positive step forward and we should all recognize and support it as such.

Agree. GM's announcement is definitely positive and will bring pressure on the other car companies to match or exceed the Bolt's capabilities. Definitely want to hear what GM's charging network strategy will be.

 

[JRP3]

I think some of us would just like to see better EV's from the competition, not weirdly styled compact cars. We've had far too many of them over the years. Just because a car is an EV doesn't mean it's automatically wonderful.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

I don't have a problem with GM stuffing a whole bunch of batteries in a compact hatchback. It looks better than an i3, a Leaf, or a Mercedes B class. A car that could look like a Peugeot 208 GTi:

with 55 kWh of batteries and fast charge capability is a good thing. The problem for me is that Chevy provided almost no information in order to even partially validate their claims.

That's not a Peugeot 208 GTi. This is:

(Tried finding a picture from the same perspective, but were unable to within half a minute...)

 

[tonybelding]

Well, the Bolt looks disappointing only in comparison with some of the inflated expectations some had built up in their imaginations. Also, all the hype we heard over the past few days about GM "targeting Tesla" with the Bolt seem pretty far off the mark now.

If you want to talk about winners and losers, though... GM is a winner because they are getting into BEVs in a serious way. Tesla and Nissan also win, because GM is validating their strategies too. The losers... I just feel sorry for companies like Mazda or Chrysler (and by extension Fiat), for example. They've chosen not to invest in EV technology, and when they realize their mistake they will have a hard time mustering the resources to catch up.

 

[scaesare]

I think some of us would just like to see better EV's from the competition, not weirdly styled compact cars. We've had far too many of them over the years. Just because a car is an EV doesn't mean it's automatically wonderful.

I haven't seen many claims of "wonderful".

A 200 mile range EV in the $30K range from a major manufacturer IS significant though.

And again: quirky styled cars sell very well to some segments of buyers. With Chevy's entry, we DOUBLED the number of cars in this EV category... yet that's still only a grand total of TWO. That's not enough to be all things to all people...yet.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Continued from post #247 above:

Personally I think the Renault Clio is a better looking supermini. And notably: It's better looking than it's EV version – the Zoe (!)...

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think some of us would just like to see better EV's from the competition, not weirdly styled compact cars. We've had far too many of them over the years. Just because a car is an EV doesn't mean it's automatically wonderful.

I agree. If this car had a Tesla badge, I would still give out the same criticism. I certainly don't hope that Tesla goes in this direction.

And I understand that some here are in "defensive mode" because of reading too many articles referring to this car as the "Tesla killer". It's hard not to do so when most of the media is framing up a rivalry.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I haven't seen many claims of "wonderful".

A 200 mile range EV in the $30K range from a major manufacturer IS significant though.

And again: quirky styled cars sell very well to some segments of buyers. With Chevy's entry, we DOUBLED the number of cars in this EV category... yet that's still only a grand total of TWO. That's not enough to be all things to all people...yet.

Can we stop this right now. Can a mod please change the title. GM is saying $30kcafter incentives, which means $37.5k (and that Volt 2 won't be a roaring success) I don't think of that as "$30k range." It's $37.5k and that's a different market to $30k.

And pah to the we're all in this together crowd. They've decided to build a BEV, where efficiency can significantly reduce journey time, with "200 mile" range in a form factor that's inefficient for highway travel. Meanwhile, the Volt is an aerodynamic compact, despite the fact that it's designed to take advantage of the fast refueling capability of gasoline.

What is wrong with this picture?

 

[scaesare]

Can we stop this right now. Can a mod please change the title. GM is saying $30kcafter incentives, which means $37.5k (and that Volt 2 won't be a roaring success) I don't think of that as "$30k range." It's $37.5k and that's a different market to $30k.

And pah to the we're all in this together crowd. They've decided to build a BEV, where efficiency can significantly reduce journey time, with "200 mile" range in a form factor that's inefficient for highway travel. Meanwhile, the Volt is an aerodynamic compact, despite the fact that it's designed to take advantage of the fast refueling capability of gasoline.

What is wrong with this picture?

The S 60 is widely regarded as "being in the $60K range." The base price is $69,900 and the ordering prominently displays $63,570 as the bottom line after incentives.

If the model 3 is $35K and the Bolt is $37,500, I'd suggest that $2500 difference puts them in the same range.

 

[Krugerrand]

But, as a group, the most important thing we can do is give GM positive feedback on this effort, imperfect though it might be.

As a group we give GM positive feedback so that they might be encouraged to follow through, but as a group we give Tesla negative feedback so that they can get better?

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Indeed. It seems that many here feel that for Tesla to ultimately to succeed, others have to fail.

I don't get that impression at all. I think the vast majority of regulars here and true EV supporters would be quite happy to see GM get their act together.

 

[woof]

Looks okay to me...but what do I know, I bought a "Solar Orange" i3! More BEVs the better I say.

 

[RobStark]

The S 60 is widely regarded as "being in the $60K range." The base price is $69,900 and the ordering prominently displays $63,570 as the bottom line after incentives.

If the model 3 is $35K and the Bolt is $37,500, I'd suggest that $2500 difference puts them in the same range.

Model S is not widely regarded as being in the $60k price range even on EV sites. Usually $80k or $100k is stated.

Fair enough since average selling price is $106k. And probably went up in Q4 2014 because of the P85D.

Fair for Chevy to show on its website $30k in bold and show $37.5k less prominently.

Even fair to track your internet ID and show you a line giving you your State incentive.

Does not mean we have to live with that nonsense.

Especially in this class most people will not qualify for the full Fed tax credit.

And GM said between $30k and $35k after Federal tax credit.

Which may mean a base MSRP of $42.5k.

GM will live to regret publicizing $30k more so than Tesla shopping around the $50k Model S number in 2010 because buyers in this class are more price sensitive and will get severe sticker Shock. Pun intended.

- - - Updated - - -

To me at least, this is about being angry that car makers seem to think that EV customers are wierdos with weird taste.

The first Gen Prius was a normal looking car and failed in the market place.

2nd and subsequent generations look like the iconic Prius we all know today and sells as many as half a million units per year.

Moral of the story for automakers is green car shoppers want designs that stand out from standard ICEv and shout out their environmentalist bona fides to everyone that looks their way.

Ford Focus Electric ,Ford Energies, VW eGolf e-Up! and most of the normal looking plugins have been sales disappointments. Outlander PHEV being the really big exception.

Froggy looking LEAF just past 30k US sales.

Puppy Bull Dog looking i3 past hoped for 10k first year global sales to 12k units.

 

[JRP3]

The first Gen Prius was a normal looking car and failed in the market place.

Well I'd say it was more on the ugly side of bland.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Well I'd say [the first Gen Prius] was more on the ugly side of bland.

IMO the first Gen Prius was about as ugly as a mass market car can get.

 

[scaesare]

Model S is not widely regarded as being in the $60k price range even on EV sites. Usually $80k or $100k is stated.

Not if you are talking base piece for the 60. Likely you can option a Bolt for higher price just as you can a S60.

The point is that the Bolt and Model 3 will be separated by something like a few thousand dollars in practicality. That's in the same range.

The larger point is that it's the first 200 mile range EV other than a Model 3 for anything even close to that amount of money... regardless of if you feel it's uglier than sin...

 

[ebwb]

Not if you are talking base piece for the 60. Likely you can option a Bolt for higher price just as you can a S60.

The point is that the Bolt and Model 3 will be separated by something like a few thousand dollars in practicality. That's in the same range.

The larger point is that it's the first 200 mile range EV other than a Model 3 for anything even close to that amount of money... regardless of if you feel it's uglier than sin...

At this point, Model 3 is nothing more than an abstraction or a bunch of promises based on modeling, if that. Model S was supposed to be a $50,000 car with a 300-mile range. Bolt will not compete with Model 3 in the same way a $24K MINI Countryman does not compete with a $45K BMW 335i.