Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[stopcrazypp]

The first Gen Prius was a normal looking car and failed in the market place.

The 1st gen Prius looked too much like the smaller bottom-barrel Toyota Echo of the same era, even though it was supposed to slot in between the Corolla and Camry.

The 2nd Gen Prius however, looked like a much bigger car, and was far more practical given the hatchback design and placement of the components (which increased cargo and rear seat room significantly). The looks were also justified by the better cD and the higher mpg numbers.

 

[scaesare]

At this point, Model 3 is nothing more than an abstraction or a bunch of promises based on modeling, if that. Model S was supposed to be a $50,000 car with a 300-mile range. Bolt will not compete with Model 3 in the same way a $24K MINI Countryman does not compete with a $45K BMW 335i.

Certainly both cars haven't been introduced yet, so all we have to go on are the statements of the companies.

 

[cdub]

According to this article, GM is working with focus groups on 200 Mile EV rollout. And therein lies one of the major problems with GM. By and large their cars are designed based on focus group research, which is why so many of them end up being garbage. As one distinguished researcher once said, "Focus groups are to research as bumper stickers are to philosphy." /QUOTE]

I think I was IN that focus group. The car the revealed looks alot like a car I saw from an unknown manufacturer at one. This was a focus group at least 2 years ago though.

 

[palmer_md]

I'm not sure why they did not go for the simple solution and build Volt 2.0 with an alternative full EV platform, it looks like a much better car for an EV and its already halfway there.

 

[ecarfan]

Chevy Bolt. 200 mile range for $30k base price

Well this author got it right:
Chevy Bolt Is The Best Thing That Could Happen To Tesla - Business Insider

Well, sort of right. Quoting the article:

"For Tesla to crack the mass market, it needs other major automakers to invest heavily in electric-vehicle technology, including a network of charging stations that would allow for long road trips in battery-powered cars."

Not really. Tesla will have their Supercharger network fully built out in North America, Europe, China, and a few other countries by 2017 when the Model 3 launches. Tesla won't need help from any other company to make the 3 a success.

 

[gregincal]

Ford Focus Electric ,Ford Energies, VW eGolf e-Up! and most of the normal looking plugins have been sales disappointments.

I would argue that they are failures because they are hastily engineered conversions of ICE cars. I love the look of the Ford Focus and was excited when they announced an EV version, but the EV version has no storage. I don't want a clone of an existing ICE car, but I want a car that looks nice, not quirky. If Tesla is the only company that's going to deliver that to me, then so be it.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, sort of right. Quoting the article:

"For Tesla to crack the mass market, it needs other major automakers to invest heavily in electric-vehicle technology, including a network of charging stations that would allow for long road trips in battery-powered cars."

Not really. Tesla will have their Supercharger network fully built out in North America, Europe, China, and a few other countries by 2017 when the Model 3 launches. Tesla won't need help from any other company to make the 3 a success.

Supercharging isn't enough. We need far more destination charging as well. However, other cars will only be a help there if they are actually able to reach destinations, which requires a quick charging network on the highways.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

If the Bolt concept makes Tesla accelerate the Gigafactory and the Model 3 timeline, that'd be very welcome. First, got to get the pesky X out of the way; it's obviously been such a distraction and a time / resource sink

 

[omarsultan]

At this point, Model 3 is nothing more than an abstraction or a bunch of promises based on modeling, if that. Model S was supposed to be a $50,000 car with a 300-mile range. Bolt will not compete with Model 3 in the same way a $24K MINI Countryman does not compete with a $45K BMW 335i.

The S40 originally started at $49,900 and the 85kWh car goes 300 ideal miles (this was announced before the current EPA test cycle existed).

 

[stopcrazypp]

The way other automakers help is by giving legitimacy to the EV cause. It is an acknowledgement long range EVs are here to stay.

 

[Model 3]

The ting here is not if the Bolt is ugly or beautiful, or if it's in the $30k price range or the $40k price range.

The thing here is that GM did NOT commit them self to anything!

They showed a "concept car". Translated to - "We may or may not produce a car at an unknown time in the future that may or may not look like this concept, it may or may not be a BEV, or a PHEV, and may or may not have a range around about maybe 200 miles +/- after an unknown driving cycle that may or may not have any, all or some of the specification that we gave you."

Yes, this show was only vaporware. I was looking forward to this event, and hoped that they would commit them self to produce and sell an BEV with (at least) a 200 miles range at a price where it was within reach for the mass marked in a reasonable time frame (2016-2018?). They did NOT! And I will not shout out "hallelujah" for there missing effort.

GM: Commit your self to something or shut up!

 

[rolosrevenge]

I am actually quite happy with this car and really hope it makes it to production. When you look at all of the quirky styles of the ICE cars out there, you realize that there's tons of room in the market for cars with similar specs but just different styling. I don't think this would negatively impact Model 3 sales at all, but rather boost them since more people will want an EV. Isn't Tesla's Super Charger protocol the same as the CCS but with a different plug? Then even a build out of that network is helpful for Tesla owners. I would love to see Tesla publically offer use of the supercharger network for this for a modest fee. Put pressure on GM to make EVs work for everyone.

 

[JRP3]

I'm not sure why they did not go for the simple solution and build Volt 2.0 with an alternative full EV platform, it looks like a much better car for an EV and its already halfway there.

Marketing nightmare to have an EV version of the car they marketed as an "EV" :wink:

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I am actually quite happy with this car and really hope it makes it to production. When you look at all of the quirky styles of the ICE cars out there, you realize that there's tons of room in the market for cars with similar specs but just different styling. I don't think this would negatively impact Model 3 sales at all, but rather boost them since more people will want an EV. Isn't Tesla's Super Charger protocol the same as the CCS but with a different plug? Then even a build out of that network is helpful for Tesla owners. I would love to see Tesla publically offer use of the supercharger network for this for a modest fee. Put pressure on GM to make EVs work for everyone.

ICEVs are different. Nobody buys an efficient ICEV because they'll spend less time refueling.

BEVs refuel slowly, so if a manufacturer wants to build a long-distance BEV (e.g. Model S), rather than a long-range BEV (e.g. Roadster) they have to consider the refuel:drive ratio. There are two ways to lower that ratio. One is to have faster charging, the other is efficiency. Since long-distance driving is likely to be highway driving, to make the refuel:drive ratio tolerable the vehicle has to be efficient on the highway.

Now consider GM's approach to the following two cars:
- Volt: PHEV/EREV; highway efficiency has small impact on travel time. Aerodynamic design to maximize efficiency, with some utility trade-off.
- Bolt: BEV; highway efficiency has large impact on travel time. Boxy utilitarian design to maximize utility from small size.

So, my problem with the Bolt is that it isn't competition for the Model 3 and if they build this GM clearly isn't trying to build a long-distance BEV. All they're doing is creating a city BEV with more range.

 

[Trev Page]

Well, sort of right. Quoting the article:

"For Tesla to crack the mass market, it needs other major automakers to invest heavily in electric-vehicle technology, including a network of charging stations that would allow for long road trips in battery-powered cars."

Not really. Tesla will have their Supercharger network fully built out in North America, Europe, China, and a few other countries by 2017 when the Model 3 launches. Tesla won't need help from any other company to make the 3 a success.

^ This. The Superchargers are Teslas ace in the hole that will secure their place in the automotive market. They fully understand that in order for EVs to be accepted and considered you must be able to travel long distances with minimum inconvenience. Everything else is just gravy.

Teslas decision to start at the high end and work their way down the price ladder allows them to generate the funds required to built out the Supercharger network. It's a stroke of brilliance that shows careful forethought in their part. As it stands Model S/X buyers are funding the charging network that everyone will benefit from when Model 3 arrives. A side effect of this might play out that their widespread deployment could end up being the de facto standard that everyone else adopts once they realize it was the right way to do things and they should just join up and pay Tesla a per car fee to use them. Everyone wins.

 

[techmaven]

I've been thinking about why I'm a bit upset at GM over the Bolt introduction. It isn't because there might be competition for the Model 3. I'd like for there to be real competition. I think it's good for all of us that want a transition to electric vehicles to happen sooner rather than later.

I'm upset because the Bolt concept car introduction was so light in real information, making it far more smoke and mirrors than it should be for a vehicle that might be in showrooms a mere 2 years away. Further, I'm upset that journalists just ran with that, parroting GM's information with really no real hard questions being asked. It's hard to evaluate based on, well, this much vapor. Given the body shape, and the price, how credible is GM's statements on 200 mile range? Without any hints toward the battery capacity, we simply don't know. Further, to provide no distinction between before tax incentive pricing versus after tax incentive pricing is really incompetence as far as the media reporting goes. But media incompetence is apparently just the accepted norm these days.

As a result, I feel this was was more of a PR stunt. Of course, Tesla stands accused of PR stunts themselves - witness rollout of the battery swap feature so far.

 

[efusco]

I've been thinking about why I'm a bit upset at GM over the Bolt introduction. It isn't because there might be competition for the Model 3. I'd like for there to be real competition. I think it's good for all of us that want a transition to electric vehicles to happen sooner rather than later.

I'm upset because the Bolt concept car introduction was so light in real information, making it far more smoke and mirrors than it should be for a vehicle that might be in showrooms a mere 2 years away. Further, I'm upset that journalists just ran with that, parroting GM's information with really no real hard questions being asked. It's hard to evaluate based on, well, this much vapor. Given the body shape, and the price, how credible is GM's statements on 200 mile range? Without any hints toward the battery capacity, we simply don't know. Further, to provide no distinction between before tax incentive pricing versus after tax incentive pricing is really incompetence as far as the media reporting goes. But media incompetence is apparently just the accepted norm these days.

As a result, I feel this was was more of a PR stunt. Of course, Tesla stands accused of PR stunts themselves - witness rollout of the battery swap feature so far.

That's what concept cars are for. But this is one that GM has expressed intent to produce. And if the PR leads to positive feedback and enthusiasm from potential buyers GM will be even more likely to build and sell the car and in bigger numbers.

Yea, very light on details, but it's something... a heck of a lot more than Toyota has given us.

 

[qwk]

Just imagine GM trying to explain to Bolt buyers, or them finding out after the sale, that they can't use these so called sleek superchargers that are everywhere. Pointing to scarce, and scary frankenplugs won't exactly inspire confidence, or build goodwill.

 

[scaesare]

That's what concept cars are for. But this is one that GM has expressed intent to produce. And if the PR leads to positive feedback and enthusiasm from potential buyers GM will be even more likely to build and sell the car and in bigger numbers.

Yea, very light on details, but it's something... a heck of a lot more than Toyota has given us.

In this vein, GM has admitted (for the first time I'm aware of), that they may have shot themselves in the foot by not moving forward with the EV1 program. This public recognition that they could have had a lead in this segment, and now feel it's an important enough market to address with statement of intention is itself a significant event.

 

[techmaven]

That's what concept cars are for. But this is one that GM has expressed intent to produce. And if the PR leads to positive feedback and enthusiasm from potential buyers GM will be even more likely to build and sell the car and in bigger numbers.

Yea, very light on details, but it's something... a heck of a lot more than Toyota has given us.

Even as far as concept cars go, the Bolt introduction was light. In 2007, GM revealed the Volt concept car and provided weight, hp, battery weight, and battery capacity. None of that was given for the Bolt.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Even as far as concept cars go, the Bolt introduction was light. In 2007, GM revealed the Volt concept car and provided weight, hp, battery weight, and battery capacity. None of that was given for the Bolt.

Yes. Right now I think of it as their MOU car for a deal with LG Chem, and the concept promotion as a way to re-establish EV cred and encourage Volt sales.