Charge Compatibility with a Volt

[Wennfred]

I have two J1772 EVSE, one is a 40amp open source and the other one is a Bosch EVSE. So I don’t use the Adapter on the Volt.

Fred

 

[CCIE]

I have that Adapter, Tesla Wall Charger to Chevy Volt, pain in the butt to attach it then you have to wait 30 seconds and it works, the connection from the Tesla side to the Adapter is pretty tight. So I don’t recommend it. Get a J1772 Charger and life will be easy.

Fred

The 30 second wait is because the UMC actually starts by trying to use a proprietary Tesla signaling protocol. After 30 seconds of trying that it falls-back to using normal J1772. There is some hardware in these adapters to block the proprietary Tesla signaling so it doesn’t confuse the non-Tesla car.

 

[darth_vad3r]

The 30 second wait is because the UMC actually starts by trying to use a proprietary Tesla signaling protocol. After 30 seconds of trying that it falls-back to using normal J1772. There is some hardware in these adapters to block the proprietary Tesla signaling so it doesn’t confuse the non-Tesla car.

Really? Are you sure it’s not just that the (non-Tesla) car ignores what it doesn’t understand?

 

[mswlogo]

I have that Adapter, Tesla Wall Charger to Chevy Volt, pain in the butt to attach it then you have to wait 30 seconds and it works, the connection from the Tesla side to the Adapter is pretty tight. So I don’t recommend it. Get a J1772 Charger and life will be easy.

Fred

The adapter I got from Amazon for $219 (Lectron) is not tight at all. The Tesla plug goes in like silk. Seams really nicely made. Can’t test yet. I like the protection caps on both ends too, to keep connections clean.

Do you have to wait the 30 seconds? Can’t you just plug in and walk away? Or is it you just want to verify it’s running properly before walking away?

 

[Wennfred]

The adapter I got from Amazon for $219 (Lectron) is not tight at all. The Tesla plug goes in like silk. Seams really nicely made. Can’t test yet. I like the protection caps on both ends too, to keep connections clean.

Do you have to wait the 30 seconds? Can’t you just plug in and walk away? Or is it you just want to verify it’s running properly before walking away?

No, it won’t start till after 30 seconds... didn’t read the instructions and thought it didn’t work.. then I read that it reads and starts after 30 seconds, will try it later and shoot a video.

Fred

 

[CCIE]

Really? Are you sure it’s not just that the (non-Tesla) car ignores what it doesn’t understand?

Yes, I’m sure. The newer wall chargers start off using SWCAN protocol and then fallback to J1772 after 30 seconds. SWCAN, and the resulting delay, can be disabled by changing dip switch #2 inside the unit to put it in legacy (J1772-only) mode.

Making the Tesla Wall Connector v2 work with the DigiNow Tesla to J1772 adapter

 

[davewill]

Yes, I’m sure. The newer wall chargers start off using SWCAN protocol and then fallback to J1772 after 30 seconds. SWCAN, and the resulting delay, can be disabled by changing dip switch #2 inside the unit to put it in legacy (J1772-only) mode.

Making the Tesla Wall Connector v2 work with the DigiNow Tesla to J1772 adapter

By that description, @darth_vad3r could be correct and the adapter isn't doing anything active to block the communications, then. A non-Tesla car would presumabley ignore the SWCAN comms, anyway.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Yes, I’m sure. The newer wall chargers start off using SWCAN protocol and then fallback to J1772 after 30 seconds. SWCAN, and the resulting delay, can be disabled by changing dip switch #2 inside the unit to put it in legacy (J1772-only) mode.

Making the Tesla Wall Connector v2 work with the DigiNow Tesla to J1772 adapter

Right so, the 30-second delay is the WC trying to talk to a Tesla, and failing, because the non-Tesla says "huh?" or just silently ignores the non-J1772 protocol. Then when the WC times out after 30s and falls back to J1772 the non-Tesla says "hi, there ... let's do business".

There doesn't have to be hardware in the adapter to block SWCAN, right? That was what I was saying "are you sure?" about ... I'm not sure what your response indicates about your "sure-ness" ... how does this make is sure that there's hardware in the adapter to block SWCAN?

There is some hardware in these adapters to block the proprietary Tesla signaling so it doesn’t confuse the non-Tesla car.

Really? Are you sure it’s not just that the (non-Tesla) car ignores what it doesn’t understand?

I don't see anything you've added that proves to me there's hardware to block SWCAN in the adapter.

A well designed protocol endpoint (an EV in this scenario) is usually strict in what it sends, and liberal in what it accepts ... but it's unlikely to be "confused" by a protocol it's not designed to accept. It would just ignore it.

There's probably some J1772 protocol handshake phase it's waiting for and doesn't do jack all until it sees that, which presumably the SWCAN protocol is totally different and doesn't do the same handshake as J1772.

I see no reason for there to be hardware to block the Tesla protocol.

 

[CCIE]

Right so, the 30-second delay is the WC trying to talk to a Tesla, and failing, because the non-Tesla says "huh?" or just silently ignores the non-J1772 protocol. Then when the WC times out after 30s and falls back to J1772 the non-Tesla says "hi, there ... let's do business".

There doesn't have to be hardware in the adapter to block SWCAN, right? That was what I was saying "are you sure?" about ... I'm not sure what your response indicates about your "sure-ness" ... how does this make is sure that there's hardware in the adapter to block SWCAN?





I don't see anything you've added that proves to me there's hardware to block SWCAN in the adapter.

A well designed protocol endpoint (an EV in this scenario) is usually strict in what it sends, and liberal in what it accepts ... but it's unlikely to be "confused" by a protocol it's not designed to accept. It would just ignore it.

There's probably some J1772 protocol handshake phase it's waiting for and doesn't do jack all until it sees that, which presumably the SWCAN protocol is totally different and doesn't do the same handshake as J1772.

I see no reason for there to be hardware to block the Tesla protocol.

From the horse’s mouth:

Tesla to J1772 Adapter?

 

[darth_vad3r]

From the horse’s mouth:

Tesla to J1772 Adapter?

I think that's the opposite of what you are saying. That's not talking about blocking the Tesla EVSE from talking to and "confusing" the non-Tesla EV. That's talking about added smarts to the adapter to talk to the Tesla EVSE that convinces it to supply power even if it is configured to ONLY talk to Teslas. The Tesla EVSEs have a dip-switch that can be set to (a) "talk to anyone" or (b) "talk only to Teslas".

The adapter with smarts is claiming it will work with Tesla EVSEs configured as in (b) by communicating with the EVSE.

I wouldn't at all characterize this as the adapter 'blocking' the protocol so as to not 'confuse' the non-Tesla EV.

 

[CCIE]

I think that's the opposite of what you are saying. That's not talking about blocking the Tesla EVSE from talking to and "confusing" the non-Tesla EV. That's talking about added smarts to the adapter to talk to the Tesla EVSE that convinces it to supply power even if it is configured to ONLY talk to Teslas. The Tesla EVSEs have a dip-switch that can be set to (a) "talk to anyone" or (b) "talk only to Teslas".

The adapter with smarts is claiming it will work with Tesla EVSEs configured as in (b) by communicating with the EVSE.

I wouldn't at all characterize this as the adapter 'blocking' the protocol so as to not 'confuse' the non-Tesla EV.

The dip switch actually tells the Tesla wall connector to either 1). try SWCAN and then fallback to J1772, or 2). just use J1772.

The problem with option 1 is that non-Tesla vehicles don't understand SWCAN. The unknown signaling can put them in a funky, causing them to refuse to negotiate J1772 once SWCAN times-out. The logic in the JDAPTER blocks the SWCAN signal, so the non-Tesla will likely accept the J1772 after the 30 second delay.

If the JDAPTER was speaking SWCAN to the wall connector, vs just blocking it, then the 30 second delay wouldn't exist.

 

[darth_vad3r]

The dip switch actually tells the Tesla wall connector to either 1). try SWCAN and then fallback to J1772, or 2). just use J1772.

The problem with option 1 is that non-Tesla vehicles don't understand SWCAN. The unknown signaling can put them in a funky, causing them to refuse to negotiate J1772 once SWCAN times-out. The logic in the JDAPTER blocks the SWCAN signal, so the non-Tesla will likely accept the J1772 after the 30 second delay.

If the JDAPTER was speaking SWCAN to the wall connector, vs just blocking it, then the 30 second delay wouldn't exist.

Alright, so are you suggesting that some non-Tesla cars can just plug into a Tesla WC configured in "Tesla" mode with any dumb adapter, and work after 30 seconds, but that same dumb adapter would not work with some other non-Tesla cars, solely based on how the car reacts to SWCAN?

Hmmm.

I haven't seen this posted about before. Do you have any examples you recall, or is this your interpretation?

I do recall reading about some other compatibility issues between certain cars that didn't strictly follow the J1772 protocol state transition timing requirements* properly. I had thought that was the issue, and nothing to do with misunderstanding SWCAN.

*IIRC, something about jumping instantly from vehicle present to ready to charge state, or something like that. Instead of waiting X seconds (10?). Not sure if I'm recalling correctly though. I think there were people with physical switches on their adapters to let them work around this issue, by doing the timing themselves, instead of how the (non-compliant) car wanted to do it.

EDIT: Hmm, or maybe I'm remembering it backwards... the Tesla WC follows the protocol strictly and has the timing delay, but some cars don't work well with that and expect an instant switch of states or they don't work?? There's definitely a thread (or two) about this somewhere.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I do recall reading about some other compatibility issues between certain cars that didn't strictly follow the J1772 protocol state transition timing requirements* properly. I had thought that was the issue, and nothing to do with misunderstanding SWCAN.

*IIRC, something about jumping instantly from vehicle present to ready to charge state, or something like that. Instead of waiting X seconds (10?). Not sure if I'm recalling correctly though. I think there were people with physical switches on their adapters to let them work around this issue, by doing the timing themselves, instead of how the (non-compliant) car wanted to do it.

EDIT: Hmm, or maybe I'm remembering it backwards... the Tesla WC follows the protocol strictly and has the timing delay, but some cars don't work well with that and expect an instant switch of states or they don't work?? There's definitely a thread (or two) about this somewhere.

Found one post that describes what I'm trying to recall. This specific post is talking about EU with CCS connector that doesn't require an adapter, where as in NA we do need an adapter from Tesla plug to J1772 port...

Tesla Wall Charger - only Tesla cars?

Any car that adheres strictly to CCS Combo 2 specifications with respect to timings can charge on a EU TWC-- not only Tesla. If you set the second DIP switch to "Legacy" then even more cars can charge (the manual just says the switch should be "on" but the TWC cover documents what it's for). There remain a few that will sometimes not work, or only work with tricks (like holding a button on an adapter for 10 seconds to simulate a delay between proximity control and charging control signals). But that is, of course, entirely the problem of the car -- standards are standards. Some cars just make contact with PC and CC at the same time, and that's not what they're supposed to do.

 

[CCIE]

Alright, so are you suggesting that some non-Tesla cars can just plug into a Tesla WC configured in "Tesla" mode with any dumb adapter, and work after 30 seconds, but that same dumb adapter would not work with some other non-Tesla cars, solely based on how the car reacts to SWCAN?

Yup, that's my understanding, not that there is a dumb adapter available to confirm it with. It depends on the car's willingness to keep retrying J1772 communication. If it tries once and then enters a fail state until the EVSE is unplugged/re-plugged, then SWCAN will cause a failure. If it retries, then it would get past the 30 second delay and work.

 

[Bob M]

I bought my wife a Volt.

I have a Permanent UMC plugged into a 14-30 outlet at one house.

I have a Wall Connector on 40A breaker at another house.

Is there an adapter that can go from the Tesla cord to the Volt?

I might just use 120V for the Volt but didn’t know if there were ways to use the Tesla connectors for the Volt. I don’t fully understand the Volt requirements yet beyond the 120V. Volt did change in 2019 and has different charger in the car (supposedly the same one that’s in the Bolt).

I know I could convert what I have with a 3rd party charger and use an adapter on the Tesla. But that is a bit pricey.

I might T-Off an outlet off the Wall Connector setup.

I don’t want to have to unplug UMC and plug in Volt at the other location. I’d like it as convenient as possible to plug in nightly.

The location with the Wall Connector sometimes is a short stay (1 day) so faster charging would be nice. And the battery will always be depleted on the Volt (120 miles to get too).

Wiring new circuits now is also very difficult. Blown foam and closed up just this past winter at the UMC location. The location with UMC is a short (10 miles) daily commute. With a full night to charge back up. It’s also not a big deal any time it’s short because there is a backup SC under the hood. I’m pretty maxed out on circuit/amps at this location as well. And I already have an A/B switch between UMC outlet and Garage heater outlet.

I’m little concerned on long term battery health using 120V exclusively and slight loss in efficiency.

I did not understand all the terms you used in your question, but I had a Chevy Volt, (which I was very happy with) until I bought my M3. I plugged my Volt into 110, but I already had 50 amp wirin220v wiring in place for my future full BEV. . My son did the same about a year later. . However , my 2013 Volt came with a 110 v charger. I later saw instructions on how to very simply convert that charger into a 220 v charger by just changing the input wiring to 220. The charger is set to accept it. The output cable remains the same, I believe just hooked up slightly differently. My son did the conversion and the Volt charged so much more quickly. I don’t know why the 220 volt charger, with the right plug, can’t plug into the same 220 outlet you use for the Tesla charger cable (the one that came with my M3.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Yup, that's my understanding, not that there is a dumb adapter available to confirm it with. It depends on the car's willingness to keep retrying J1772 communication. If it tries once and then enters a fail state until the EVSE is unplugged/re-plugged, then SWCAN will cause a failure. If it retries, then it would get past the 30 second delay and work.

OK, I think we just have different interpretations of SWCAN "causing" a failure. I read that as somehow, the actual SWCAN protocol messes up the car. What you said above is just that J1772 doesn't work, and it gives up retrying (for example).

That's not SWCAN specifically messing up the car, that's just Tesla deciding to use SWCAN and not J1772 for 30 seconds messing up the car. Tesla could equally mess up the same car by doing nothing for 30 seconds, no?

So if I understand you correctly, then we agree, I just disagree with your phrasing

 

[CCIE]

OK, I think we just have different interpretations of SWCAN "causing" a failure. I read that as somehow, the actual SWCAN protocol messes up the car. What you said above is just that J1772 doesn't work, and it gives up retrying (for example).

That's not SWCAN specifically messing up the car, that's just Tesla deciding to use SWCAN and not J1772 for 30 seconds messing up the car. Tesla could equally mess up the same car by doing nothing for 30 seconds, no?

So if I understand you correctly, then we agree, I just disagree with your phrasing

Sounds good The bottom line is really that a "smart" adapter is needed to allow most non-Tesla cars to charge from a Tesla EVSE.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

We have a Jdapter. Works well. However, if I was using it all the time I would just get a standard 240 EVSE.

 

[mswlogo]

The dip switch actually tells the Tesla wall connector to either 1). try SWCAN and then fallback to J1772, or 2). just use J1772.

The problem with option 1 is that non-Tesla vehicles don't understand SWCAN. The unknown signaling can put them in a funky, causing them to refuse to negotiate J1772 once SWCAN times-out. The logic in the JDAPTER blocks the SWCAN signal, so the non-Tesla will likely accept the J1772 after the 30 second delay.

If the JDAPTER was speaking SWCAN to the wall connector, vs just blocking it, then the 30 second delay wouldn't exist.

Thanks so much for this info !!!

It allowed me to "make" a Tesla extension from J1772 components. It would not work without flipping that DIP !!!

See details here

Anyone buy eves adapters Tesla plug extension cord? (post #9)