Canadian Superchargers

[mknox]

"... the delays we've had in Canada are much more pedestrian than any kind of major certification issue and mostly go back to generally longer permitting, zoning, and utility timelines."

Generally longer than what? The time it takes to get these things done in the States? Sounds like gibberish to me.

I've recently had the opportunity to see some US Superchargers. These are an exceedingly simple utility connection matter, so that can't be the problem. Utilities are connecting much more complex commercial and industrial buildings on a daily basis all over the country.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I suspect the problem is that you have the D team installing Canadian Superchargers. The A, B, and C teams are deploying in the US, Europe and China. Canada with a 10th or less population of each of those other areas, just doesn't rate much attention. Telsa's contractor for Supercharger installation is Black and Veatch, which seemed to only have a small office in BC a year ago. Meanwhile Tesla management is stretched very thin, and can't look over B&V's shoulder all the time.

Here in the US, we've had some epic delays at a few critical Supercharger locations ourselves and it really felt like not everything was being done to move things along. Maybe B&V has this nice fat sole source contract from Tesla, and doesn't feel the pressure to go above and beyond.

 

[nleggatt]

TESLA MOTORS INC. - DP - 40147 GLENALDER PLACE District of Squamish

Just saw the other post... someone beat me to it

 

[Doug_G]

Okay, I can believe that they have had mundane site approval issues. A couple of years ago we did a building project, and it was an incredibly frustrating experience. Between the City, the conservation authority, Hydro One, and the various local utilities, they managed to stall the project for a year and a half.

I could well believe that Tesla would encounter similar problems trying to get site approval... but it's kinda disturbing that this could happen at every site.

 

[Cosmacelf]

The variability is interesting. With literally no one noticing, Tesla managed to build six sites in Norway in record time.

 

[gpetti]

The variability is interesting. With literally no one noticing, Tesla managed to build six sites in Norway in record time.

I think it says a lot about government motivation. I'm not sure how Norway structures jurisdictions but there is clear intent to support EVs at the federal level and presumably Tesla had active support to get all approvals etc as quickly as possible. Given the smaller geography - there are probably not as many different companies and government bodies involved. In Canada things are moving so slowly it almost looks like active resistance though I know this is not the case. Of course with municipal, provincial and federal governments involved in various ways along with the various local utility companies, contractors etc. that has to make life difficult. Throw in our vast distances and spread out population it is perhaps not surprising that it takes so much longer. Such is the size of the country that this thread could easily be two as we pretty much have two different discussions going for the West and East. I know all of these factors are true for the US too but presumably the US started earlier and had more resources assigned given the much larger population density and volume of sales etc.

 

[mknox]

Of course with municipal, provincial and federal governments involved in various ways along with the various local utility companies, contractors etc. that has to make life difficult.

I honestly don't think this is it. These are ridiculously simple connections from an electric utility standpoint. I have worked in the utility industry for over 30 years and we hook up services like this (and ones much more complex) daily. It seems from Tesla's earlier update that equipment certification is also not an issue. I am starting to think that Canada is just low on the priority totem pole, perhaps due to the volume of cars being purchased here.

 

[catnip]

I honestly don't think this is it. These are ridiculously simple connections from an electric utility standpoint. I have worked in the utility industry for over 30 years and we hook up services like this (and ones much more complex) daily. It seems from Tesla's earlier update that equipment certification is also not an issue. I am starting to think that Canada is just low on the priority totem pole, perhaps due to the volume of cars being purchased here.

I agreed. Once again, Canada is being regarded as a door mat, which is totally unacceptable. Superchargers were set up before the first sales in both UK and China. Why can't Tesla do it in Canada.
Even if Tesla has a supercharger system set up within BC. or Ontario as of now, it is 1.5 years too late.

 

[wolfpet]

I'm probably the most patient reader on both TMC and TM forums, but yeah I'm getting frustrated too. I can't go to the States without multi-hour stop in the middle of nowhere and the uncertainty related to this. We planned the US road trip this July and it's ruined.

 

[RiverBrick]

There's a double-whammy of a contractor with limited Canadian experience and Tesla having less incentive to push Canadian sales.

No ZEV credits to be earned by Tesla in any province. Only two provinces offering cash rebates on EV purchases. Canada possibly being the only country in the G20 with no Federal-level EV incentives.

 

[Mayhemm]

I agreed. Once again, Canada is being regarded as a door mat, which is totally unacceptable. Superchargers were set up before the first sales in both UK and China. Why can't Tesla do it in Canada.
Even if Tesla has a supercharger system set up within BC. or Ontario as of now, it is 1.5 years too late.

This is a bit extreme. Although the slow rollout does seem to reinforce the idea that Tesla is dealing with Canada because they feel they have to rather than because they want to (like automakers producing compliance EVs), it's not like we're completely "out in the cold", as it were. The Sun Country Highway network has pretty decent coverage and is the next best thing to a Supercharger. It was due to this network, not Tesla's own, that I decided to purchase my Model S when I did.

 

[RiverBrick]

it's not like we're completely "out in the cold", as it were.

Agreed. For the time-being, we're stuck in 2012, but if it weren't for Tesla we'd still be in the ICE age.

It's worse for Canadian LEAF drivers. Nissan has installed roughly 200 CHAdeMO stations at dealerships in the States and have also donated or partnered to have CHAdeMO installed at other locations. In Canada, Nissan has only a CHAdeMO station at their Toronto-area headquarters and no announced plans for anything else.

 

[Ugliest1]

it's not like we're completely "out in the cold", as it were. The Sun Country Highway network has pretty decent coverage and is the next best thing to a Supercharger.

+1.

 

[SlyWombat]

This is a bit extreme. Although the slow rollout does seem to reinforce the idea that Tesla is dealing with Canada because they feel they have to rather than because they want to (like automakers producing compliance EVs), it's not like we're completely "out in the cold", as it were. The Sun Country Highway network has pretty decent coverage and is the next best thing to a Supercharger. It was due to this network, not Tesla's own, that I decided to purchase my Model S when I did.

Still surprised at the lack of charging up near Blue Mountain, Sun Country as well. 280km round trip is pushing it for me with my lead foot (or Li-ion foot).

 

[PoweredByRain]

[..] if it weren't for Tesla we'd still be in the ICE age.

That's brilliant.

The ICE age - another era...

- - - Updated - - -

There's a double-whammy of a contractor with limited Canadian experience and Tesla having less incentive to push Canadian sales.

No ZEV credits to be earned by Tesla in any province. Only two provinces offering cash rebates on EV purchases. Canada possibly being the only country in the G20 with no Federal-level EV incentives.

I don't agree with this argument.

Are there any ZEV credits to be earned by Tesla in most states?

The existence of an incentive is irrelevant - Tesla makes the same profit selling a car in Canada as they do in the United States, regardless of incentives. Tesla doesn't get any money from the incentive, the consumer does. The only effect the incentive has on the manufacturer is that it makes it easier to sell the car.

It's not even clear to me that there are fewer Teslas per capita in Canada than in the United States. I'd love to see the figures. Anyways, from Tesla's perspective, I think it's more like California vs everywhere else: the population density, and sales (I will bet) are much higher in California than everywhere else. Not surprising, then, that the Supercharger network is densest in California.

I am tired of hearing excuses of the form "Canada is less dense" - well, yes, if you include the frigging arctic, but 99.8% of Canadians don't live in the arctic. (It's also not a very vibrant car market, given the lack of roads and all). The population density in the "Windsor to Quebec" corridor beats anything across the middle of the United States. Yet where has Tesla most recently installed Superchargers? In Kansas. To get from Denver to Kansas City (970 km). Tell me what the population and traffic density on that corridor is compared to Windsor-Quebec (1155 km). The "corridor" in Canada is said to have 18 million people, whereas there's only roughly 8 million in all of Colorado and Kansas.

 

[Mayhemm]

In Canada, Nissan has only a CHAdeMO station at their Toronto-area headquarters and no announced plans for anything else.

Strangely, there is now a CHAdeMO station in Truro, NS. Unfortunately, when installing it they removed the SCH 90A station that was already there (and that I was counting on for my upcoming roadtrip). I don't know who was responsible for the switch.

Come on Tesla CHAdeMO adapter!

 

[RiverBrick]

Strangely, there is now a CHAdeMO station in Truro, NS. Unfortunately, when installing it they removed the SCH 90A station that was already there (and that I was counting on for my upcoming roadtrip). I don't know who was responsible for the switch.

Nova Scotia Power installed that CHAdeMO station. They are slated to install four others this year, all in the Halifax/Dartmouth area. The latest details I can find are almost a year old, though.
http://emc-mec.ca/evve2013/pdfs/22OCT/TS11/3_Swan.pdf

I didn't know they were yanking SunCountry stations to do it, though.

 

[ZsoZso]

Still surprised at the lack of charging up near Blue Mountain, Sun Country as well. 280km round trip is pushing it for me with my lead foot (or Li-ion foot).

You can take a bit longer route via Barrie where they are planning to have a Supercharger -- and there is already a Sun Country Highway charger at Barrie AFAIK.

 

[SlyWombat]

You can take a bit longer route via Barrie where they are planning to have a Supercharger -- and there is already a Sun Country Highway charger at Barrie AFAIK.

Yeah, but coming from the Mississauga side is a bit of pain, as a "destination" it would make sense for IntraWest to get on board with EV's. I am going to have to convince my friends up there to install a dryer plug in their garage.

 

[gpetti]

I honestly don't think this is it. These are ridiculously simple connections from an electric utility standpoint. I have worked in the utility industry for over 30 years and we hook up services like this (and ones much more complex) daily. It seems from Tesla's earlier update that equipment certification is also not an issue. I am starting to think that Canada is just low on the priority totem pole, perhaps due to the volume of cars being purchased here.

I was primarily just comparing the ease of rolling out in Norway versus Canada in response to an earlier point. Our geography and provincial/municipal structure definitely add more bureaucracy to the process as well as having multiple different contractors and utility companies to deal with. I have no idea why Tesla selected Norway, but it does seem to be a fairly strategic spot - virtually guaranteeing a certain level of sales given all the incentives, a relatively easy supercharger roll out, and they have become the poster country for winter driving - questions about model S in winter conditions are often countered by using Norway as an example. Given Norway's sales, that does seem to have paid off, though this could be a circular argument - i.e. if Canada had a supercharger network maybe our sales per capita would be higher.