Brexit

[Singer3000]

If only there was a scientific way to figure this out … (apart from you raging against a strawman).

Explaining the Trump Vote: The Effect of Racist Resentment and Anti-Immigrant Sentiments | PS: Political Science & Politics | Cambridge Core

I thought this thread was entitled 'Brexit', not Trump?

I'm not raging by the way, it is not the Jedi way

I don't know you but I suspect you've spent very little time in the UK, given your repeated comingling of the pricklier aspects of the Trump phenomenon with Brexit. I've tried to help you understand the difference but it's not my job to change your mind.

Anyhoo, I'll duck out of this thread for a while. This is an investment forum and it's very unlikely that Brexit will impact TSLA at all for quite a few months at this point (all the MPs have gone on holiday for one thing!)

 

[Buckminster]

Nigel Farage's new party is doing well. EU need to give UK a 10 yr sunset clause on backstop, otherwise we will keep EU from progressing (as well as UK which is again bad for EU). Resentment building on both sides won't help with my second masterplan of re entering EU down the line.

UK civil servants seem to think border tech is 10 years away also, citing Blockchain use:
Leaked Home Office document reveals high-tech solution to avoid hard Northern Ireland border a 'decade away'
Opportunity for EU to open borders to other countries and control world quality stds?

 

[Buckminster]

Laura Kuenssberg on Twitter

 

[nwdiver]

Rumor is that Brexit is a plot point in season 4 of 'The Expanse'

 

[neroden]

Theresa May and the Fixed Term Parliaments Bill are destroying the entire UK electoral system. Oh my God. No wonder Farage's poll numbers are rising. She's even restarted the Troubles. Parliament has lost the confidence of the people, and May has lost the confidence of the people and of Parliament (despite the Tories being unwilling to say so in an open vote).

The Queen is derelict in her duty; she should have dismissed May already. This situation has no precedent since the 1820s at least.

 

[neroden]

For many countries, there are quite obvious historical attractions to either grouping under the protection of larger neighbours or else using the European project as a backstop against slides towards nationalism, autocracy or hyperinflation. There are after all very few countries in Europe that in the past 100 years have not lived either under autocracy or foreign occupation (or both).

Since this list of countries under foreign occupation includes Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, this might explain why all three countries are hardcore "Remain", and only *England* voted "Leave".

*cough*

 

[neroden]

The UK has succeeded in vetoing very little EU policy of any substance in recent years

The UK got out of every single problematic part of EU policy, including retaining its own currency and its own immigration controls! The UK was big enough and powerful enough that it could get exceptions from any EU-wide policy, and it did, while still maintaining favorable trade status.

The UK had a uniquely excellent position within the TU. If anyone was actually voting based on policy, Spain and Greece have good reasons for leaving the EU, and so does France -- Germany has imposed horrific, economy-crushing policies on all three using the EU as a cudgel. NOTHING similar has happened in the UK.

What was the EU imposing on the UK? Human rights law? Environmental law? Well, the UK should damn well agree to comply with those! This is why the people complaining that the EU is infringing on UK "sovereignty" are either mistaken or evil; evil if they think that the UK needs to violate environmental laws or violate human rights laws, mistaken if they think the EU is doing anything else significant to the UK.

In short, "Leave" made no sense for the UK, which already had exceptions from everything about EU law which was problematic. It would make a lot of sense for Greece, or Spain, or Italy, or France to "Leave", but it makes no sense for the UK.

 

[Singer3000]

Since this list of countries under foreign occupation includes Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, this might explain why all three countries are hardcore "Remain", and only *England* voted "Leave".

*cough*

Stop spreading #fakenews Neroden!

Firstly Wales voted Leave in 2016.

Secondly it’s open to question whether you could ever define Wales as having been an independent country, since it did not become a unified political body until rule was established by England (in 1282!)

But yes, you are right as regards Scotland, I think culturally that played a big part subconsiencely. N Ireland is a bit more complex than that as you well know

 

[Singer3000]

The UK got out of every single problematic part of EU policy, including retaining its own currency and its own immigration controls! The UK was big enough and powerful enough that it could get exceptions from any EU-wide policy, and it did, while still maintaining favorable trade status.

The UK had a uniquely excellent position within the TU. If anyone was actually voting based on policy, Spain and Greece have good reasons for leaving the EU, and so does France -- Germany has imposed horrific, economy-crushing policies on all three using the EU as a cudgel. NOTHING similar has happened in the UK.

What was the EU imposing on the UK? Human rights law? Environmental law? Well, the UK should damn well agree to comply with those! This is why the people complaining that the EU is infringing on UK "sovereignty" are either mistaken or evil; evil if they think that the UK needs to violate environmental laws or violate human rights laws, mistaken if they think the EU is doing anything else significant to the UK.

In short, "Leave" made no sense for the UK, which already had exceptions from everything about EU law which was problematic. It would make a lot of sense for Greece, or Spain, or Italy, or France to "Leave", but it makes no sense for the UK.

More fake news Mr Neroden. The UK (and Ireland) have an opt out from the passport free Shengen travel zone. It does not have a sovereign immigration policy with respect to Single Market nationals.

There’s a million and one rules imposed on the UK big and small against its both its political and popular will. To pick two entirely at random, VAT on tampons and the abolition of day light savings. The new directive on copyright law is pretty unpopular too.

 

[busaman]

Since this list of countries under foreign occupation includes Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, this might explain why all three countries are hardcore "Remain", and only *England* voted "Leave".

*cough*

scotland ireland and wales could not survive on thier own without great hardship we give them billions of pounds in social,education and healthcare
ie, free precritions, social security payments, free higher education to list a
few.

 

[Buckminster]

scotland ireland and wales could not survive on thier own without great hardship we give them billions of pounds in social,education and healthcare
ie, free precritions, social security payments, free higher education to list a
few.

You're from Suffolk - pretty sure you are on the payroll too.

 

[EVNow]

Secondly it’s open to question whether you could ever define Wales as having been an independent country, since it did not become a unified political body until rule was established by England (in 1282!)

So funny. This exact logic was used to say India has never been an independent country and it is ok for the British to rule over India !!

 

[busaman]

You're from Suffolk - pretty sure you are on the payroll too.

i run my own buisiness how else could i afford to buy a MS outright so no im not.

 

[EVNow]

i run my own buisiness how else could i afford to buy a MS outright so no im not.

LOL. So you think you don't benefit in anyway from all the investments and expenses of the government ?

 

[busaman]

in some small ways yes BUT i pay a lot more in taxes than i get in return.

that argument could be used for every living person so not really relavent.

 

[Mader Levap]

in some small ways yes BUT i pay a lot more in taxes than i get in return.

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

 

[neroden]

More fake news Mr Neroden. The UK (and Ireland) have an opt out from the passport free Shengen travel zone. It does not have a sovereign immigration policy with respect to Single Market nationals.

There’s a million and one rules imposed on the UK big and small against its both its political and popular will. To pick two entirely at random, VAT on tampons

Everyone wants that abolished, right? Human rights law requires that it be abolished, so the EU can't impose anything to the contrary -- human rights law overrides any Commisison directives. Anyway the Commission agreed that that should be abolished.

EU expected to give states more leeway to cut sales tax rates - Reuters

and the abolition of day light savings.

Summer time should never have existed.

The new directive on copyright law is pretty unpopular too.

Well, nobody in the EU likes the copyright law directive either. That's a straightforward example of regulatory capture by big business, and you'll get something just as bad -- or even much worse -- in a fully independent UK. Historically the UK was much worse about regulatory capture by big business than the EU.

 

[Buckminster]

Laura Kuenssberg on Twitter
Local elections - nothing much to see here. Lib Dems doing well as the only big remainer party.

 

[busaman]

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

they also collected taxes.

 

[RobStark]