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I've had a similar experience few times over the past four winters. When the car has been parked outside in subzero temperatures the brakes are sometimes slow to react and a few times there was zero pressure when I pushed the pedal all the way down. After a few pumps it slowly regains pressure. No close-calls but certainly nerve racking. I presume it's just the system is cold and once warmed works fine.
A vacuum based system, like the earlier Tesla pre-facelift is susceptible to this sort of thing. It takes a while for the vacuum to build up. The older the car, the more tiny leaks, so the quicker it looses pressure. My pickup does the same thing. Initially, only noticed if I didn’t drive it for a week. Now it’s overnight.
Hi, I haven't read all the previous posts but I did have a similar situation happen to me last week. First off, I want to point out that this I am a younger driver (32) but that is the 7th car I own and it is the only one that has this behavior. Here in Montreal, we've had a few days at -25 celcius and then one day with heavy rain where the temperature was around 5 celcius.
I got in the car after it had been sitting there for 3 hours (at home I have a heated garage) and I had *NO* brakes at all. Not even a little... I was going at 5 km/hr and has to put the car in reverse to stop!! Thank god I was in the stores parking as I could of easily hit someone. I immediately had the car towed. Tesla inspected the car and found no fault in the braking system. They think that the braking pads might have stuck to the rotors. As we barely use our brakes, they suggested two things to avoid this problem in the futur:
1- They recommend that I clean my brakes at least once a year (cost of 140$), ideally before winter.
2- The technician told me to put regen at low at least once a day per month to clean up the potential rust/debris on the rotors.
Personally, I think that Tesla should at least call it's customers once a year to let it's customers know about potential braking issues (especially in cold weather regions). Like I said, my previous lexus, Toyota, Mustang, Genesis, etc. have never had this issue as obviously you use braked more often in ICE vehicles.
I got in the car after it had been sitting there for 3 hours (at home I have a heated garage) and I had *NO* brakes at all. Not even a little... I was going at 5 km/hr and has to put the car in reverse to stop!! Thank god I was in the stores parking as I could of easily hit someone. I immediately had the car towed. Tesla inspected the car and found no fault in the braking system. They think that the braking pads might have stuck to the rotors. As we barely use our brakes, they suggested two things to avoid this problem in the futur:
1- They recommend that I clean my brakes at least once a year (cost of 140$), ideally before winter.
2- The technician told me to put regen at low at least once a day per month to clean up the potential rust/debris on the rotors.
Personally, I think that Tesla should at least call it's customers once a year to let it's customers know about potential braking issues (especially in cold weather regions). Like I said, my previous lexus, Toyota, Mustang, Genesis, etc. have never had this issue as obviously you use braked more often in ICE vehicles.
PaulS
Member
Yes, somewhat. I think I know where you are going... I thought the same at first... antilock braking doing the best it could. After experiencing it several times, I became convinced otherwise... including doing a test myself that involved spraying water from a hose into the brakes and then being able to recreate the issue on non-icy roads.
PaulS
Member
Thanks!!! I will relay this to them and let you know what they do for me when I take it in on Thurs.
This happened to me just a few days ago and it was a bit scary. I instantly realized it was the combination of rusty rotors and wet brakes and the car would likely have taken 3x as long to stop if I didn't mash the pedal hard.
In all the different cars I've driven, this issue only happens noticeably in 2 different cases: 1) sitting overnight after driving in the rain so the rotors rust and then driving in the rain in the morning and 2) 30+ minutes of freeway driving without braking in very wet conditions.
This happens on all cars that I've owned but it hasn't been as pronounced as on the Model S for several reasons: 1) the car is a bit heavier than other cars which demands more brake performance 2) the wheels may be more open than other vehicles exposing brakes to more water and most importantly 3) the brakes are used a lot less frequently due to regenerative braking which may lead to a layer of water build-up on the rotors and pads.
Car washes and city driving in the rain won't cause this as a car wash doesn't apply that much water to the pads/rotors and the brakes are also applied at lower speeds (which prevents the pad from essentially hydroplaning on the rotor). However, if the rotors are rusty to start with (sitting overnight after a rain) then application of wet brakes pads on wet rusty rotors won't clear the rust which leads to increased braking distances too which is what happened to me a few days ago.
In all the different cars I've driven, this issue only happens noticeably in 2 different cases: 1) sitting overnight after driving in the rain so the rotors rust and then driving in the rain in the morning and 2) 30+ minutes of freeway driving without braking in very wet conditions.
This happens on all cars that I've owned but it hasn't been as pronounced as on the Model S for several reasons: 1) the car is a bit heavier than other cars which demands more brake performance 2) the wheels may be more open than other vehicles exposing brakes to more water and most importantly 3) the brakes are used a lot less frequently due to regenerative braking which may lead to a layer of water build-up on the rotors and pads.
Car washes and city driving in the rain won't cause this as a car wash doesn't apply that much water to the pads/rotors and the brakes are also applied at lower speeds (which prevents the pad from essentially hydroplaning on the rotor). However, if the rotors are rusty to start with (sitting overnight after a rain) then application of wet brakes pads on wet rusty rotors won't clear the rust which leads to increased braking distances too which is what happened to me a few days ago.
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
I had the same thing happen in early January, when the temps were below zero. It happened just as I pulled my car out of the garage in the morning. After a few hard brake applications, the brakes started working again. The problem came back one more time under similar circumstances. I'm pretty certain that this was caused by ice on the front brake rotors. In both instances, the car had a lot of snow buildup inside the front fenders.
Another time when this sometimes occurs is when leaving a carwash, and the front rotors still have soap on them. I've learned to be cautious when approaching the first traffic light after leaving a carwash.
This sounds like the loss of power brake boost problem that I've had (I didn't find this thread before posting), although for me it didn't clear on it's own - I had to power off and restart the car to clear it.
Temporary loss of power brake assist
Temporary loss of power brake assist
PaulS
Member
They said I already had revised pads and splash shields, and that to prevent this in the future we should turn regen to low from time to time in the winter in our dirty/salty climate to keep the pads floating freely in their mounts on the callipers. I'm not entirely comfortable with this answer, but there seems to be nothing I can do to receive a better answer. If this is such an issue in cold climates, I would think that they better implement something precautionary that automatically addresses it by turning off/down regen periodically in cold weather, before somebody has a tragic accident.
Don85D
Member
I don't buy the 'pads stuck in their mounts' explanation as the pads fail to release when this occurs. The rotors get hot and warp long before the pads will lose any braking effect. So it's just the opposite when pads are corroded in their holders, they grab and hold more than normal.
After reading some of this feedback from owners in salty winter climates I am coming to the conclusion that an ICE Winter Beater is the best option. There is a world full of inexpensive cars well suited to the abuse of winter while the better cars can sit in storage for a couple of months. My neighbours do this for their Porsche and MoPar collectable sports cars so I'm following their lead.
Besides, an ICE generates excess heat and if other drivers want to play bumper cars I don't worry as much. By parking the Model S, insurance and winter tire savings make for an easy business case to drive an ICE in winter.
Our situation may be unique as we are retired so our need to commute each day is gone and we avoid long distance touring in winter. Our solar panel array continues to pump electricity into the grid that we can buy back in summer months.
A Model S and an ICE Winter Beater combo make sense at this time in the EV evolution. Perhaps in 10 years that may change but for now I'm becoming happier that we kept our old ICE with good winter tires when we purchased the Tesla.
Mitigating risk should be high on every car owner's list and this is my solution for your consideration.
After reading some of this feedback from owners in salty winter climates I am coming to the conclusion that an ICE Winter Beater is the best option. There is a world full of inexpensive cars well suited to the abuse of winter while the better cars can sit in storage for a couple of months. My neighbours do this for their Porsche and MoPar collectable sports cars so I'm following their lead.
Besides, an ICE generates excess heat and if other drivers want to play bumper cars I don't worry as much. By parking the Model S, insurance and winter tire savings make for an easy business case to drive an ICE in winter.
Our situation may be unique as we are retired so our need to commute each day is gone and we avoid long distance touring in winter. Our solar panel array continues to pump electricity into the grid that we can buy back in summer months.
A Model S and an ICE Winter Beater combo make sense at this time in the EV evolution. Perhaps in 10 years that may change but for now I'm becoming happier that we kept our old ICE with good winter tires when we purchased the Tesla.
Mitigating risk should be high on every car owner's list and this is my solution for your consideration.
PaulS
Member
Scary stuff really. I feel like they need to find a real solution, instead of making excuses about regen, etc. Somebody is going to get badly hurt if they don't solve this... especially when the 3 is shipping in high volume.
PaulS
Member
T could do something like this via software, no? I forwarded this video to them when I got the usual post-service email questionnaire.
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