Bolt EV EPA range = 238 miles combined!

[Jeff N]

The interior has less volume than a Nissan Versa Note with similar build quality, performance, and style.

Build quality is somewhat subjective but I suspect the Bolt has nicer display and features. I'm not familiar enough with interior details of the Note and Bolt to go into point-by-point detail.

Of course, the Note will have a crude gas engine that drives poorly and the Bolt will have an instantly reactive, smooth, quiet, and powerful EV motor and controls.

Car & Driver says:

Handsome styling, a roomy back seat, and the promise of astronomical fuel economy are not enough to make the Versa Note an appealing car. Its weak 1.6-liter four-cylinder makes 109 hp and pairs with either a sloppy five-speed manual or a drone-inducing CVT. We could forgive the Versa Note its faults if it were fun to drive, but alas, its road behavior is bland thanks to a soft suspension and grip-free tires. Pick a competitor or even a used car before dropping your cash on one of these.

We do have some spec numbers.

Versa Note:
94.1 sq ft passenger space
18.8 rear luggage space
57.1 storage with rear seat folded
9.5 seconds 0-60

Model S60:
94.0 sq ft passenger space
26.3 rear luggage space
58.1 storage with rear seat folded
5.5? seconds 0-60 (original spec 5.9 seconds)

Bolt EV:
94.4 sq ft passenger space
16.9 rear luggage space
56.6 storage with rear seat folded
6.5 seconds 0-60

like that they are doing it, but this is more of a Leaf killer. No way it competes with the model 3, especially when you consider their modules are 50% larger by weight and volume (per kWh).

So I'm buying a Model S60 or base trim Model 3 and I'm supposed to care that it has empty space in the battery pack under the floor vs. the Bolt?

My prediction: Excluding internal Bolt sales of GM to it's own Lyft subsidiary, GM will never sell more than 5,000 Bolts a year if the transaction price is > $25,000 after credits.
As I said -- still-born.

Lyft is not a GM subsidiary. You really think that after the first year of retail sales that GM will have sold less than 5,000 of them? Seriously?

As a Volt owner, a person who likes the Bolt, and someone supportive of GM's electrification efforts in general, would it make you feel better if I told you that I think the Model 3 will far, far outsell the Bolt EV?

I should hope so because otherwise Tesla is going to be in serious financial trouble. Their plans depend on high volume sales in order to use all of the batteries from the huge battery factory they are building.

 

[Rashomon]

The more I look at the route they took, the more I am convinced they did everything they could to stay off a normal, 65 mph freeway. 101 flow of traffic is usually 70+
They only hopped on to 101 when it was necessary to transfer to different small highways. Some of these back roads are the type of road you get stuck behind a tractor that is moving between fields/orchards. The journalists must have know something was up when they were avoiding the major/normal freeway. 1 is kinda aggravatingly slow (but a classic, beautiful drive, so I'll let that slide). One of the Chevy people was even noted in one of these drive reports as saying Highway 1 was frustrating.

Anyway, GM proved that you can get really good efficiency numbers when you drive slower than the EPA test. Plus It makes it look like your car is handily beating the EPA numbers (you are, in a way). First impressions are important, and GM nailed this one, with some of the test drivers arriving with 20+ miles left. Plus they got perfect weather (very little climate control needed, GCR showed 99% driving, 1% climate energy usage screen) Every little bit helps.

Very few people (other than EV owners and engineers) understand how non-linear EV range is with speed. I've driven all those roads covered on the Bolt press trip many a time, and you could average 55 or considerably better on the two lanes if you were pushing really, really hard -- much easier on a motorcycle than a car because of the ease of passing the lurking motorhomes. Get behind one of those for awhile and you might be averaging 25 on PCH. But it's evident all the journalists on this trip were obeying the Chevrolet PR department and driving less aggressively than might be typical in, say, a Car and Driver comparison test road trip It's pretty clear that Chevrolet PR gamed this to gild what are already impressive range numbers. However, at the 80 mph cruising speeds that are typical for some California freeways, the range of the Bolt will likely be somewhat worse than the more aerodynamic if heavier S60, let alone a M3.

As for why anyone might buy a Bolt over an M3, the tall and space efficient configuration might be the reason other than availability. SUVs and cross-overs are killing sedans in sales, and a lot of people have gotten used to the ease of entry and high view point they provide, and the utility of a hatch. I do think GM has blown it a bit with the positioning of the Bolt -- it comes across as too downscale other than it being electric. Shopped against the similar in configuration Honda Fit, the Bolt costs about $10,000 more after tax incentives, though it's considerably quicker, and likely quieter and better equipped. It does argue that Tesla needs to get the Model Y out behind the M3 ASAP.

 

[SageBrush]

As a Volt owner, a person who likes the Bolt, and someone supportive of GM's electrification efforts in general, would it make you feel better if I told you that I think the Model 3 will far, far outsell the Bolt EV?

I feel fine -- thanks.

There is, I suspect, still a large group of people who carry GM loyalty and will not be inclined to switch to EV until it is a GM EV. Same for Ford by the way. So while I personally would not purchase a GM anything, I look forward to GM making EVs that are enticing enough to get their base out of gas guzzlers. The Bolt is not even close, and for the very much the same reasons that it is not in the same league as the Model 3: a $30k sub-compact, no frills econobox with an ~ 85 mile travel radius is ... ridiculous. Five years ago people who valued EV over everything else may have looked twice, but now the Model 3 covers the EV part, covers it vastly better than the Bolt due to the SuperCharger network, and is a lot more car, substance and style to boot.

I am not against the idea that GM or Ford or whomever give Tesla stiff competition -- quite the opposite. The world-wide car market is huge and waiting to be exploited and converted. I wish GM success in converting the Bro1999's of the world to EV, and anybody else who does not want a Tesla. For now though, a Tesla competitor will have to make an EV that is vastly better and/or cheaper than the Model 3 because the SuperCharger network is such a huge Tesla advantage. It is obvious that the Bolt does not come close.

 

[SageBrush]

You really think that after the first year of retail sales that GM will have sold less than 5,000 of them? Seriously?

Quite confident, at $30k after credits. Look at the transaction prices Nissan had to accept to keep sales over 1000 a month.

Regarding Lyft

Lyft and General Motors revealed yesterday that they are teaming up to build a network of self-driving cars. The country’s biggest automaker will invest $500 million in Lyft to develop a fleet of autonomous vehicles that can be summoned on demand; while waiting for that day to arrive, GM will also set up national hubs where Lyft drivers can rent and operate cars without owning them.

So not a subsidiary, but they might as well be.

 

[Vitold]

And who here believes the Model 3 will have more interior passenger volume than the Model S? So pretty safe to say the Bolt will beat the Model 3 in that category too.

Unless you like wearing high hats than you should not care much about that, plus, larger volume takes longer to heat or cool off. Model 3 is large where it counts and can actually fit 5 adults or accommodate child seats better.

(that's the last time I'm mentioning Tesla when talking about Bolt because it's not fair to Chevy to compare Bolt to Model 3)

 

[kablammyman]

*sigh* right before my very eyes, I'm watching a group of people turn into obnoxious stereotypical bmw fanboys. Its not a good look! The bolt may not be the car of your dreams, but that doesn't mean its a bad car. Give credit where credit is due.

I know this is a Tesla forum, but I thought many of us were also fans of EVs in general. I guess that's not the case...seeing some of the hate makes me kinda feel like a kid who just found out santa isn't real.

 

[Vitold]

*sigh* right before my very eyes, I'm watching a group of people turn into obnoxious stereotypical bmw fanboys. Its not a good look! The bolt may not be the car of your dreams, but that doesn't mean its a bad car. Give credit where credit is due.

I know this is a Tesla forum, but I thought many of us were also fans of EVs in general. I guess that's not the case...seeing some of the hate makes me kinda feel like a kid who just found out santa isn't real.

It probably irks many Tesla fans when Bolt is being compared to a Tesla car just because both run on batteries. I don't see anyone comparing Honda Fit to BMW 3 series because that would be silly.

 

[Az_Rael]

*sigh* right before my very eyes, I'm watching a group of people turn into obnoxious stereotypical bmw fanboys. Its not a good look! The bolt may not be the car of your dreams, but that doesn't mean its a bad car. Give credit where credit is due.

I know this is a Tesla forum, but I thought many of us were also fans of EVs in general. I guess that's not the case...seeing some of the hate makes me kinda feel like a kid who just found out santa isn't real.

I was just thinking this as well. This thread sounds like when someone opens a "That new Samsung phone looks cool" thread over on the MacRumors forums, LOL.

 

[bro1999]

The Chevy Bolt has beaten Tesla’s Model 3 by a year

Don't get much smarter than those MIT folks!

This comment is hilarious:
"ConstantinSirbu 14 hours ago

I'd rather wait another 2 years and get a reliable Tesla, than rush into it and end up with some Chevy.

Tesla doesn't have as many service centers because their cars don't break down as often as Chevy."

So much irony....

 

[Vitold]

I was just thinking this as well. This thread sounds like when someone opens a "That new Samsung phone looks cool" thread over on the MacRumors forums, LOL.

It does not help when GM is actively against Tesla sales model and openly supported bill in Indiana that blocked Tesla from selling direct.

 

[Vitold]

The Chevy Bolt has beaten Tesla’s Model 3 by a year

Don't get much smarter than those MIT folks!

Funny. I click the link and the first sentence is already inaccurate. So much for MIT clout...

EDIT: and funny conclusion as well: the only reason to buy Bolt is because it is available (which is not accurate, again) and Model 3 is not...

 

[trils0n]

Don't get much smarter than those MIT folks!

Well, except they say the Model 3 will have 215 miles of range, like that was the final EPA number (hint: the EPA number hasn't been released) The reveal event said that was the minimum they were shooting for, not the final EPA result (no mention of that, so 2nd error).

 

[Jeff N]

Don't get much smarter than those MIT folks!

Sadly, in my limited experience with them Technology Review seems to regularly publish articles that are hostile to EVs and Tesla. I don't take them as a particularly serious or savvy news site on transportation tech.

 

[Vitold]

Sadly, Technology Review regularly publishes articles that are hostile to EVs and Tesla. I don't take them as a particularly serious or savvy news site on transportation tech.

Writer of this article worked previously for Gizmodo...

 

[jkk_]

It does not help when GM is actively against Tesla sales model and openly supported bill in Indiana that blocked Tesla from selling direct.

Haven't been following those bills since those don't matter here in Europe. But I think I saw one comment somewhere (can't remember where) that the bill would've only allowed Tesla to sell directly while other OEMs would've still been locked in the dealership model? If that's true wouldn't it be better to have a bill where all OEMs can sell directly?

 

[techmaven]

I do agree that the Bolt is a terrific achievement from a major automaker. And I think it is, overall, a good thing for the EV movement and validates the direction that Tesla staked out many years ago.

It is also natural to compare and contrast this new product against other vehicles. Also, Tesla has taken some heat over the launch of the Bolt, so it is important to draw the distinction as to why one would choose a Tesla over a GM Bolt. And as with any new product, the manufacturer's claims do have to be validated. That includes Tesla, as we know they are sometimes "liberal" with their specs.

 

[SageBrush]

Let's say the Bolt is available for purchase a year before the Model 3. Just how many people are there who will spend $30k and then be unhappy with their purchase 12 months later ? Remember, the argument is that these are people who otherwise would buy a Model 3 but buy a Bolt instead because of the wait.

If $30k is chump change and they gotta have an EV now, they buy or lease a Model S.

 

[jkk_]

It is also natural to compare and contrast this new product against other vehicles.

Agree, but I think it's stupid for journalists to compare it to the model 3. I mean, I get why they are doing it but it's still stupid. It's like comparing VW Golf to BMW 3-series or something like that. Completely different cars for different segments.

 

[bro1999]

Agree, but I think it's stupid for journalists to compare it to the model 3. I mean, I get why they are doing it but it's still stupid. It's like comparing VW Golf to BMW 3-series or something like that. Completely different cars for different segments.

The Bolt and Model 3 are the only cars confirmed to be going to production that will be priced under $40k and have at least 200 miles of range (well, basically confirmed. Elon could always change his mind like he did with the Roadster and jack the price up). Comparisons are inevitable, even though one is a utilitarian hatchback and the other a "sporty" sedan.

Same reason the Leaf and Volt 1.0 were compared: they were the only mass produced plug-in vehicles out on the market.

 

[Zoomit]

Either system of equations will work if you weight the numbers properly, your numbers were not weighted properly, if you want to check it substitute your calculated range numbers into the equation .55*city +.45*highway and see what you get, it will be close to but not exactly 238.

I rounded to avoid a false appearance of precision in the last post but the correct numbers, assuming unrealistic precision in the given data, are:

Bolt Highway Range = 218.3486miles
Bolt City Range = 254.0784miles

Plug those into the above equation and you will get 238.0000miles

/nerd fight

It's interesting to note that the 90D has almost the same highway efficiency as the 1000lbs lighter and much smaller Bolt, 107MPGe vs. 110MPGe.

It's a weighted harmonic mean. 1/(.55/c+.45/h)
invert mpge to get gpme, then weight to calculate overall gpme, then invert to get overall mpge.

I'm going declare ItsNotAboutTheMoney as the actual victor of this nerd fight. The harmonic mean is required to calculate the Combined Fuel Efficiency number. (Page 2: https://www3.epa.gov/fueleconomy/documents/420f14015.pdf) I took the equations and verified that they simplify down to the two simple equations shown below if you want to back out the City Range and Highway Range. You need to have the EPA Combined Range and the respective City and Highway Fuel Economy numbers.

City Range = Combined Range * (City Fuel Economy / Combined Fuel Economy)
Highway Range = Combined Range * (Highway Fuel Economy / Combined Fuel Economy)

For the Bolt EV
City Range: 256 mi <-- (238 * 128 / 119)
Highway Range: 220 mi <-- (238 * 110 / 119)