Australian Supercharger network

[Dborn]

As a current reservation holder in Australia, I'd like to state on the record for anyone at Tesla reading this that I do NOT consider it mandatory to have Super Chargers planned or deployed for Tesla to commence shipments to Australia.

It would certainly be great if they were present in some major rural road corridors but lets face it: Australia is just a bloody big country for a relatively small population (and a much smaller Tesla ownership community) and as much as we may be car nuts just how often would you *actually* be driving Melbourne/Sydney or Sydney/Brisbane reality is that isn't the common use case.

I put down a deposit on the model S before superchangers were even part of the picture, I was prepared to do so then, am prepared to do so now on the basis of no superchanging network here.

Agree.

 

[spentan]

Call me selfish, but for me, the only supercharger I would actually benefit from would be one between Canberra and Sydney,

That's only a convenience thing as well, so that I wouldn't have to run around Sydney looking for a charging station. (I'm not sure if there are any hotels/valet with charging stations).

That way CBR-SYD-CBR free trips would be a real selling point (for me haha), as well as the fact that ACT provides no stamp duty fees for ACT registration.

Unfortunately, even though I have multiple properties in ACT, I live just across the border in NSW (Jerrabomberra, Greater Queanbeyan). So I will be up for the Stamp Duty charges, though registration in Sydney will be easy provided that the service center/previous store is located there.

I know a few people in CBR that drive to Melbourne, but to be honest, considering the driving time of 6-7 hours, flying is much more efficient.

Usually from Canberra even for work, we drive up, because we usually have a lot of kit that requires excess baggage.

 

[Rokku]

I think early supercharger expansion is a "nice to have" but the most important thing is to reduce the luxury car tax or have EV incentives because buying a 85kw for around 200k is just way to expensive.

 

[spentan]

I think early supercharger expansion is a "nice to have" but the most important thing is to reduce the luxury car tax or have EV incentives because buying a 85kw for around 200k is just way to expensive.

This is the exact reason I cancelled my Signature Reservation

The fact that it would cost me about 70k+ for a P85+ just in government fees and taxes in order to own one in Aus over USA, I'd rather take my chances moving to USA

 

[Tasdevil]

As a current reservation holder in Australia, I'd like to state on the record for anyone at Tesla reading this that I do NOT consider it mandatory to have Super Chargers planned or deployed for Tesla to commence shipments to Australia.

It would certainly be great if they were present in some major rural road corridors but lets face it: Australia is just a bloody big country for a relatively small population (and a much smaller Tesla ownership community) and as much as we may be car nuts just how often would you *actually* be driving Melbourne/Sydney or Sydney/Brisbane reality is that isn't the common use case.

I put down a deposit on the model S before superchangers were even part of the picture, I was prepared to do so then, am prepared to do so now on the basis of no superchanging network here.

I agree with shipments before superchargers, and I see your point with your reservation.

however if tesla said there were going to be no super chargers in Australia, then I would take that as an offence and not buy one. Supercharger have or are going into every nation that tesla plan to sell to, so why are we different?
yes we have a huge land mass for our size, but if tesla can't put a supercharger in every capital city (and more than one in the bigger cities) then that's a joke.

but I haven't seen tesla skimp or cut corners on their roll out promises yet. So here's hoping.

 

[moollar]

yes we have a huge land mass for our size, but if tesla can't put a supercharger in every capital city (and more than one in the bigger cities) then that's a joke.

I'm not sure if you realise the purpose of the Superchargers. They're not putting them in cities in any of the countries they've put them in - at least, not yet anyway (including the USA). They're for long distance travel and are placed along major highway routes for this purpose, not in the cities. The idea is that you charge at home or work (or somewhere else) for city driving. Charge overnight, for example, and wake up with a "full tank" every morning. Not so much of an issue for city driving. This is why long time reservation holders were not fussed placing a reservation before the superchargers were announced - who ever drives over 300-400km a day in city driving? Nobody I know, that's for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if they start rolling out superchargers along the east coast highways at some point (e.g. Pacific and Hume highways at least). No idea when that would happen, but I would be pretty disappointed if it didn't happen.

As others have mentioned though, what really needs to happen is the removal of the Luxury Car Tax and other stupid taxes (e.g. stamp duty) for 100% EVs as a zero emission vehicle. I'm sure the Federal Government could easily remove the LCT for 100% EVs as part of their "direct action plan". However, with the way their budgets work, I think it would be tough to convince the states to remove stamp duty, although you may be able to argue that they might get more back in GST for these high value transactions.

It's still unclear if there are any import duties applicable under the Australia-USA free trade agreement. Hopefully not. They could even add other incentives to purchase zero emission vehicles, but I'm not getting my hopes up on that one. It's not like we have very progressive governments on that front (on both state and federal levels).

 

[callmesam]

From Cairns to Perth is 6911 km.

1 Supercharger every 175km = 40 Superchargers to cover 85+% of the population.

@$150,000 US/Supercharger = $6,000,000 for installation

There is very likely to be a robust Supercharging network.

Big question is how long until there are routes through the interior?

 

[spentan]

From Cairns to Perth is 6911 km.

1 Supercharger every 175km = 40 Superchargers to cover 85+% of the population.

@$150,000 US/Supercharger = $6,000,000 for installation

There is very likely to be a robust Supercharging network.

Big question is how long until there are routes through the interior?

Every 175 km?

You mean every 175 miles?

In which case, they're probably better off doing them every 300km

Tbh, I don't see superchargers coming up in Australia for at least a year or two after release.

 

[meloccom]

If Tesla starts a Supercharger network in Australia they would start with the areas where most cars are delivered, which I imagine is Melbourne and Sydney. So 4 or 5 supercharging stations could easily link them and support Canberra at the same time. Later build out towards Brisbane and Adelaide and maybe a few to cover the inland trip from Sydney to Adelaide. Can't see Perth or North QLD happening any time soon if at all.

 

[callmesam]

Every 175 km?

You mean every 175 miles?

In which case, they're probably better off doing them every 300km

Tbh, I don't see superchargers coming up in Australia for at least a year or two after release.

Spacing in the US is every 80-120 miles so 175 km is correct.

Either way the network for the entire coast should be relatively cheap and easy to build out

 

[Tasdevil]

I'm not sure if you realise the purpose of the Superchargers. They're not putting them in cities in any of the countries they've put them in - at least, not yet anyway (including the USA). They're for long distance travel and are placed along major highway routes for this purpose, not in the cities. The idea is that you charge at home or work (or somewhere else) for city driving. Charge overnight, for example, and wake up with a "full tank" every morning. Not so much of an issue for city driving. This is why long time reservation holders were not fussed placing a reservation before the superchargers were announced - who ever drives over 300-400km a day in city driving? Nobody I know, that's for sure.

Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO. "We are giving Model S the ability to drive almost anywhere for free on pure sunlight."

for or me that means the places you won't be able to drive on sunlight are the very remote places. But if I'm wrong and I can't do my everyday driving from superchargers that's disappointing.

edit* 45min Mark of the 2013 shareholders meeting. Elon answered a question about superchargers and said he will be installing superchargers within cities. #yay

 

[moollar]

Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO. "We are giving Model S the ability to drive almost anywhere for free on pure sunlight."

for or me that means the places you won't be able to drive on sunlight are the very remote places. But if I'm wrong and I can't do my everyday driving from superchargers that's disappointing.

edit* 45min Mark of the 2013 shareholders meeting. Elon answered a question about superchargers and said he will be installing superchargers within cities. #yay

I had a look at the shareholder video and he was responding to a question where he was trying to think of possible solutions for people who live in high density cities like "San Francisco or Manhattan or London". His preference was for cities to install street level charging infrastructure, but that they might possibly have to look at some sort of supercharger solution where this doesn't happen. It was all pure conjecture and at no point did they say they would do it, but that the issue of people living in high density cities who do not have off-street parking will need to be addressed in the long term (despite the fact that the number of customers that meet this criteria is currently only a small percentage). He made the point that they still need to "figure out" a solution for those people.

They have not committed to rolling out superchargers in cities yet, as much you might want this to happen. In fact, he made a big deal about the fact that one of the great benefits of owning an electric vehicle is when you can charge it where you park and not have to go out of your way to refuel (and how much "gas stations suck"). He also pointed out that having to go to a supercharger and wait for 20 mins is not anywhere near as convenient as being able to plug in where you normally park.

I'm curious - do you want superchargers in cities because you want free electricity for a future car you might want to own or do you want them because you do not have some place that you might be able to charge it for your regular city driving (e.g. garage, etc.)? You seem to be taking and quoting one liners out of context to make them fit with what you want to happen.

 

[Tasdevil]

Both. The only place I could charge is at home.
Also nothing is "free" in this world. (Except oxegyn and sunlight). And elon even said the cost of the supercharger is built into the car. And because the cost is capital and very little maintenance.

Also my point of having superchargers within cities is if your traveling to another city. How can you charge quickly when your there?

Btw when I say city I mean the whole city not just the Central Business District

 

[gregincal]

Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO. "We are giving Model S the ability to drive almost anywhere for free on pure sunlight."

for or me that means the places you won't be able to drive on sunlight are the very remote places. But if I'm wrong and I can't do my everyday driving from superchargers that's disappointing.

edit* 45min Mark of the 2013 shareholders meeting. Elon answered a question about superchargers and said he will be installing superchargers within cities. #yay

I do drive everyday on sunlight; it's called installing solar panels on your roof. Superchargers in cities are a very last resort because it's part of the old stupid "gas station" model. The beauty of an electric car is that it is fully charged every morning without having to ever charge it up unless you are driving outside its range.

- - - Updated - - -

Both. The only place I could charge is at home.
Also nothing is "free" in this world. (Except oxegyn and sunlight). And elon even said the cost of the supercharger is built into the car. And because the cost is capital and very little maintenance.

Also my point of having superchargers within cities is if your traveling to another city. How can you charge quickly when your there?

Btw when I say city I mean the whole city not just the Central Business District

I don't think you have a good conception of the range of the Model S. It would be extremely difficult in city driving to exceed its range over the course of a day even if you took several trips from the suburbs into the city and back.

 

[moollar]

I do drive everyday on sunlight; it's called installing solar panels on your roof. Superchargers in cities are a very last resort because it's part of the old stupid "gas station" model. The beauty of an electric car is that it is fully charged every morning without having to ever charge it up unless you are driving outside its range.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think you have a good conception of the range of the Model S. It would be extremely difficult in city driving to exceed its range over the course of a day even if you took several trips from the suburbs into the city and back.

I think gregincal has it right. Tasdevil, I'm not sure if you fully see the benefit of having an EV. If there is a plug, you can charge it - especially in Australia. We have the advantage of our regular electricity being 240V, which means that charging for daily city use can generally be covered with using a regular power socket on a standard 16A household power circuit. If I owned an EV (unfortunately I don't at the moment) I would probably get a dedicated higher amperage circuit installed at my home for faster charging during off-peak hours. However, that doesn't mean using a "regular" outlet doesn't work.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario. I recently visited my parents in Queensland for Christmas. If, in a couple of years time, I own a Tesla and there were superchargers placed along the Pacific Highway, I will be able to make that trip (from Sydney to Brisbane) without modifying the way my family travel to Queensland. We stop every couple of hours for at least 20 minutes (a basic requirement with kids) for a bathroom break and to stretch the legs using our current car, so using the superchargers would not add any time to our 900-1000km drive. When we get to my parents' we will be able to just plug into one of their regular power points in the garage each night using the Tesla mobile connector (which comes with the car). No need for superchargers in Brisbane. I would be surprised if any place you stay at would not have a regular power point for you to plug into.

Assuming you are charging at 240V and 12A, you will be able to top up each night with more than 150km of additional range using a regular power point. I'm assuming charging from, say, 8pm-8am. Have a look at the charging calculator on this page:

Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors

To figure out how long charging would take on a regular Aussie powerpoint, change the outlet on the calculator to NEMA 14-30 and then double the time figure in the top left-hand corner of the calculator (which is kinda like changing 240V at 24A down to 240V at 12A). It won't be totally precise to the minute due to the different amperage, but it gives you an idea. Having over 150km top up each day is more than enough for while we are there, even if we were going to the beach or a theme park every day. On the other hand, it would be way less convenient to have to go out of my way during our stay to get to a supercharger a few times (and wait for 20-30 minutes on each occasion) compared to just plugging in each night (Elon made this point rather emphatically in the shareholder meeting video you referred to, Tasdevil). My parents also have solar panels on their roof, so I would also be using some sunlight for my charging.

As for expecting to not have to pay for ANY electricity for your car, I can't help you with that feeling of entitlement.

 

[Jmac]

yes - we installed a HPC for development work with the Roadster - a 32 there as well and an external 32 too! - plenty of charge

 

[Tasdevil]

Assuming you are charging at 240V and 12A, you will be able to top up each night with more than 150km of additional range using a regular power point. I'm assuming charging from, say, 8pm-8am. Have a look at the charging calculator on this page:

As for expecting to not have to pay for ANY electricity for your car, I can't help you with that feeling of entitlement.

When I quoted "drive almost anywhere for free on pure sunlight" I was referring to what elon was referring to; superchargers.

I would pay for the electricity i use at a supercharger no worries. I pay for petrol, so there's no difference.(although I do expect the price to be a lot cheaper).

peoples 2 burning questions about EVs; what's the range? How long does it take to charge? So u get 300miles, from fully charged, after that it takes 20mins to charge at a SC, but only gives u 150miles. Then when u get to your destination you can't charge 150miles in 20mins because there's no SC, so it will take you 9 hours on a 240v outlet.

They need superchargers in the cities.

 

[meloccom]

Peoples 2 burning questions about EVs; what's the range? How long does it take to charge? So u get 300miles, from fully charged, after that it takes 20mins to charge at a SC, but only gives u 150miles. Then when u get to your destination you can't charge 150miles in 20mins because there's no SC, so it will take you 9 hours on a 240v outlet.

They need superchargers in the cities.

This is the sort of thing I say when I get asked that question.
Unless you are a courier, If you think about your driving patterns carefully you'll realise that you can drive in city traffic pretty much all day and not drive 400km. If you live in Hobart you could drive up and down Mt Wellington many times as well as a lot of side trips on a single Model S charge. When you get home in the evening, you plug in even with a 15A 240v supply your Tesla is "full" and ready to go again the next day. So I don't see a need for Superchargers for locals, possibly only for visitors on their way through. Road trips are another matter.

 

[Tasdevil]

Yeah that's my point, if I got from Launceston to Hobart, to me a SC in both cities is better than 1 half way. And when you do road trip and your in an unfamiliar place the last thing you want to be worrying about is running out of charge.

Maybe if tesla install a new type of SC in the city (in the future) that chargers faster so like 200miles in 10mins and it also suits other plug types that take some form of fast charge and this is a pay for charge depot.

My house has 3phase so I'll be hooking that 80A(or whatever it is) up to the garage so I can charge ASAP.

 

[spentan]

Yeah that's my point, if I got from Launceston to Hobart, to me a SC in both cities is better than 1 half way. And when you do road trip and your in an unfamiliar place the last thing you want to be worrying about is running out of charge.

Maybe if tesla install a new type of SC in the city (in the future) that chargers faster so like 200miles in 10mins and it also suits other plug types that take some form of fast charge and this is a pay for charge depot.

My house has 3phase so I'll be hooking that 80A(or whatever it is) up to the garage so I can charge ASAP.

Tasdevil, to be brutally honest, I don't think any superchargers going into Tasmania are viable.

Considering Launceston to Hobart is 200km, you could go there and back in one daily charge.

Considering the superchargers cost ~US$500k based on US parts and labour, I'd expect the Aussie costs to be about $600k.

This then would depend on how much usage it could get. With Tesla Model S costing between 100-200k, do you really think that there will be many owners in tassie?

Putting superchargers on the Melbourne to Sydney route will definitely be the busiest, and even then, I don't know whether there will be enough customers to warrant that.

One of Teslas first superchargers was in Barstow, and the amount of Model Ses going LA <-> Vegas is probably at least 10x if not 100x the drivers going Syd<-> Melb