audio system oem...?

[spatterso911]

I have the SS upgrade, and I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. It is heavily weighted to the front, and there is minimal spatial imaging going on. The interface is fine, and in reality, any true audiophile will tell you that the quality begins with the amp and ends with the speakers, not with the head unit or level of user control. My best audio systems required the least interaction to make it sound phenomenal. That being said, Tesla has kinda dropped the audio ball here. The model S has a great acoustic environment. It really needs to have some work done to take advantage of the rear hatchback space and the rear speaker deck could have really been used here to audio advantage. I am taking the car to a high end custom audio designer in a couple weeks to design a system to take advantage of the acoustic environment. I will report back when I have more information.

 

[yobigd20]

I have the SS upgrade, and I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. It is heavily weighted to the front, and there is minimal spatial imaging going on. The interface is fine, and in reality, any true audiophile will tell you that the quality begins with the amp and ends with the speakers, not with the head unit or level of user control. My best audio systems required the least interaction to make it sound phenomenal. That being said, Tesla has kinda dropped the audio ball here. The model S has a great acoustic environment. It really needs to have some work done to take advantage of the rear hatchback space and the rear speaker deck could have really been used here to audio advantage. I am taking the car to a high end custom audio designer in a couple weeks to design a system to take advantage of the acoustic environment. I will report back when I have more information.

I'll be waiting for your report on this

 

[Tommy]

I have the SS upgrade, and I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. It is heavily weighted to the front, and there is minimal spatial imaging going on. The interface is fine, and in reality, any true audiophile will tell you that the quality begins with the amp and ends with the speakers, not with the head unit or level of user control. My best audio systems required the least interaction to make it sound phenomenal. That being said, Tesla has kinda dropped the audio ball here. The model S has a great acoustic environment. It really needs to have some work done to take advantage of the rear hatchback space and the rear speaker deck could have really been used here to audio advantage. I am taking the car to a high end custom audio designer in a couple weeks to design a system to take advantage of the acoustic environment. I will report back when I have more information.

I've been tempted a few times to write a review of the S' audio system from the perspective of an audiophile and truth be told it would be an "apples and oranges" comparison to a hi-end home system. Not really fair to the S; its audio system should be judged relative to its peers and I lack first hand knowledge of the sound quality of the S' competitors to give an honest evaluation.

I do know that a car environment has many "strikes" against it to reproduce sound as the recording engineer intended. These shortcomings apply to all car listening environments: Highly reflective surfaces, the primary listening position not being equal distant from the L/R sound source; multiple sound sources vs one ideal single point sound source, vibration of the speaker enclosures (door panels), mediocre electronics, drivers, playback source. An extensive list but hardly all inclusive.

Your quest for better amps and speakers, I am sure will make an improvement in the sound; however don't expect a true "sound stage" to emerge from these upgrades. There's just to many acoustic short comings that a car environment has to reproduce what the recording engineer intended.

Regarding the importance of the head unit, Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn made quite a name for himself by insisting the source, in this case the turntable, was the single most important link in the audio chain. He made many believers with his breakthrough product the Sondek LP12 turntable. Fast forward 40 years and if you care to listen to the improvement a time error corrected CD redbook player can do to a CD, PM me and I would be happy to have you listen to my rig, I am in South OC. Just bring your favorite CD's.

PS: for you audiophiles reading this, yes I know LP's are still king.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

I have the SS upgrade, and I am somewhat disappointed with the sound. It is heavily weighted to the front...

No kidding. I have to bias my fader to about R7 to give it a neutral feel, otherwise it sounds like all of the sound is coming from the front speakers...

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I am taking the car to a high end custom audio designer in a couple weeks to design a system to take advantage of the acoustic environment. I will report back when I have more information.

Please do! I'm very interested in your findings.

 

[inottawa]

I will report back when I have more information.

Look forward to your report as well.

 

[gtimbers]

The biggest problem making meaningful modifications to late model cars is the degree to which the electronics are merged with the car operating systems. In the good old days, one could simply change the head unit and/or the speakers and accomplish a lot. Now, the head unit is integrated into the dash and inseperable from the Nav, Phone, etc. If the factory system is decent, it will use dedicated EQ for each speaker position. Simply replacing existing speakers with others will yield unknown results. If you can't get to the electronics you're probably screwed.

I have listened to the Studio system several times in the store and when using lossless music, the sound is very good overall. I agree with those who think the imaging is a bit vague and I also agree that the front rear balance is not ideal. As stated in an earlier post, the sound processing should be designed to create nice rear channels from a Stereo source. These algorithms are plentiful and rather trivial to implement in the design.

I should be getting my car next week and I will make some measurements on the acoustic system and report back. I understand t hat the center speaker is actually a sound bar comprised on multiple small speakers. This would account for the vague imaging. But it is a nice way to not have a single large speaker stuffed on the dash surface like many cars.

There is a product called a JBL MX8. It is a DSP box with 2 inputs, up to 8 channels out either amplified or line level. It has the ability to unwrap the stock EQ and then measure the car acoustically and apply the required EQ to achieve a target curve. The system also has manual EQ capability to fine tune the results to taste. It works off a Stereo input and can derive proper surround information for the rears. The catch is that we need to find the input to the amplifier modules, or the output from the front channels from the existing amplifiers. The MX8 can then fix things. There is one other potential problem. If the tesla system uses balanced electronics instead of single ended, the MX8 will have problems. Isolation transformers would be necessary but they soften bass impact.

i have read that Tesla is satisfied with the performance of the Studio system and has no immediate plans to change things. Based on the many really important software issues they have, I can't argue. However, the system can be hugely improved by software upgrades and as such, here may be hope for the future. It appears to me that the existing hardware is capable of much higher performance levels than what we are currently experiencing.

 

[gtimbers]

Well, I have the car and I had to make some measurements. Overall, the results are very good for a factory system. It is capable of a relatively appropriate response measurement. It has a slight rise in the midrange which can't totally be eliminated with the tone control without causing issues elsewhere. It also has a dip in the measured response between 300 and 700 Hz which cannot be fixed with the provided controls. I used a 3 microphone array in the drivers seat for this set of tests. I would prefer more mic's and to also average in the passenger seat results but I was in a hurry. I use Mono pink noise, decorralated stereo pink noise, Left channel, Right channel and difference (L-R) noise. All five signals gave the same results (except for bass level in L-R) which is very good. This means that the center channel up-mixer is functioning well. As we all know, the rear channels are not properly implemented either in Stereo or in Dolby. I hope Tesla gets around to fixing this. It is a simple software change and there are plenty of decent rear channel synthesizers out there.

Once adjusted, using lossless FLAC versions of CD's, the sound is very presentable. There is ample volume capability and the presentation is clear, smooth and detailed. It is clearly not Home quality Audiophile good, but it is really fine for automobile sound. It is also not aftermarket, competition sound. That is a whole animal of its own. The bass is solid, deep but lacking a little in tightness, or punch, but still very good overall. For those of us using iTunes or similar to process the CD's, I am thinking it would be possible to apply pre-EQ to the download that could correct for the response errors in the car. I am showing highly smoothed results, but the raw data is commendably free from high Q peaks and dips which means that simple EQ can make a pleasant difference. I am planning to work out the pre-EQ curve and see if iTunes can do it. Then application of XLD to translate the Apple files to whatever format you prefer is straightforward.

The target curve I have displayed is fairly representative of properly done OEM systems. It is, however, based on listening in a still car with no engine running. In operation, the bass level must be pumped up to overcome road and wind noise. I found the optimum settings for the car to be "0" for the High, "-1" for the Mid, and "2-4" for the Low. The graph I show illustrates "4" for the Low setting. I personally prefer more like "6" when driving.

 

[Tommy]

Thanks for the write-up and doing the measurements. I listen at +3.5 bass,-1mid and +1.5 treble with Dolby on and F/R set to +1 rear.

One of the complaints often posted is the sound is too forward centric. I found that reducing the mid range and using dolby recesses the soundstage just a bit so that vocals are more laid-back and not "in your face".

 

[vcor]

@gtimbers Thanks!

You beat me by a few hours (and did a better job too). I made similar measurements this morning, using a flac file of test sounds (from Alan Parsons - Sound Check CD), with all the Tesla controls at 0, volume at the lower "8" and ended up with similar results. Car was parked and there was no outside noise. Climate was also turned off. I used a cheap Radio-shack level meter, C weighting, slow response. I have the standard audio, and was pleasantly surprised on the overall response, which seems reasonable to me for a vehicle system. I did see a rapid drop off below 40 Hz, and the meter stops at 50db (so those shown at 50db are really lower), which makes sense since there is no subwoofer with the standard audio.

I do wish I had bought the Studio package, only for the better low end bass. I've been looking at how to add a bit more bass (subwoofer or replacing the 6" door speakers with 8" would help).

I was hoping I wasn't going to be the first to attempt an aftermarket audio upgrade. If no one else figures it out or writes it up, I'll likely do it myself and write it up for others to follow.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Thanks for the updates, gentlemen. The more data and thoughts you can share, the better... and I'm grateful for the work you've done so far already. I look forward to hearing more.

I'm glad to see that I will probably like how the Studio Sound performs in my Model S, but I'll also admit that I'm willing to put time, effort, and some money into the system if I can reasonably improve it further.

 

[gtimbers]

I used calibrated microphones and no weighting. My measurements are pretty accurate, however in a car environment you need to make a bunch of measurements in the seating area and average them. I cut some corners to get quick results. I don't see anything wrong with the transducers. The problems are with the electronics, primarily voicing issues. I need to find out where the main amplifier unit lives. I suspect it is on the back side of the dash, probably reachable from the frunk area. Fixing the front bias is going to be tough. We need to hope that Tesla will address it within their programming.

Keep in mind that the Radio Shack SPL meter is not very flat and a single point measurement can be very misleading.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

"Keep in mind", he says. :-D Thank you for letting me know, I had no idea! :-D

 

[vcor]

Yep - I agree my measurements were a bit crude - also I only used a single point in the center on the armrests - not a good listening position.

I've opened up all the frunk panels and there is no amp that I could see. I expect it's under the dash, but that's rather difficult to pull apart. I'll work on it more. I did identify the HD radio module is on the driver's side in the dash. I expect it includes the AM/FM and possibly more. It's a Panasonic unit, but searching the web, I could not find as a product on the Pansonic OEM sites. Likley it is a semi-custom design for Tesla. I don't have the Sound Studio, and I'm fairly sure there is a second amp or module for it since there is a fuse just for Sound Studio. There is an empty place above the glove box (on my car) that might be where the Sound Studio amp resides?

You can easily snap off the black side dash panel (after you open the passenger door) and take a look. It's only held on by snaps - no screws.

 

[vcor]

Update: I pulled apart a door, to look at a speaker and it's mounting. The speakers do appear to be a semi-custom design for Tesla! In my case, it's the 6" (160mm) that comes with the Standard audio (Sound Studio uses 8" in the front doors, 6" in the rear doors). They are specified at 2 ohms (measured 1.8 ohms).

The design is interesting from the lack of metal in the speaker - the basket (which holds the magnet away from the cone) is made entirely with plastic ribs, making the entire assembly fairly light for a speaker. I've never come across something similar, but it makes sense that they were going for weight savings. The plastic has a Tesla logo molded into it and it appears on the speaker label with a Tesla part number. The OEM vendor has "SW" in the plastic as well as the label on the back of the speaker. I've seen this logo somewhere before, but a quick search didn't find the vendors name. The speaker is made in China.

The speaker is about 2.5" deep, and the mounting design will not allow a deeper speaker. The speaker back plate looks to be quite close to the window when in it's down position. Due to the mounting design, it looks to be difficult to replace this speaker with a commercial speaker of the same size as there are no mounting holes for the rim of the speaker. The foam surround is glued into the plastic basket. A smaller speaker could be mounted, but it would be a bit of headache, and I'm not sure it would be an improvement.

Here's a shot of the back of the speaker

 

[yobigd20]

Here's a shot of the back of the speaker
View attachment 17783

Is that a QR code? The image is too small for my iphone to read it. If that's a QR code you might be able to scan it using a QR reader on your phone and that might give you more info...

I've been searching for that logo via google images and haven't found anything yet either.

 

[yobigd20]

Interesting, quoting their 10k report just release:

"If our vehicle owners customize our vehicles or change the charging infrastructure with aftermarket products, the vehicle may not operateproperly, which could harm our business.
Automobile enthusiasts may seek to “hack” our vehicles to modify its performance which could compromise vehicle safety systems. Also,
we are aware of customers who have customized their vehicles with after-market parts that may compromise driver safety. For example, some
customers have installed seats that elevate the driver such that airbag and other safety systems could be compromised. Other customers have
changed wheels and tires, while others have installed large speaker systems that may impact the electrical systems of the vehicle. We have not
tested, nor do we endorse, such changes or products. In addition, customer use of improper external cabling or unsafe charging outlets can
expose our customers to injury from high voltage electricity. Such unauthorized modifications could reduce the safety of our vehicles and any
injuries resulting from such modifications could result in adverse publicity which would negatively affect our brand and harm our business,
prospects, financial condition and operating results."

 

[LazyBear]

I used calibrated microphones and no weighting. My measurements are pretty accurate, however in a car environment you need to make a bunch of measurements in the seating area and average them. .

$100 amplifier has same flat frequency response as $1000 amplifier. The latter just sounds better

Besides frequency response time alignment, phase errors and speaker distortions especially at crossover points matter quite a bit. In my BMW 535 I replaced speakers and connected OEM L7 output to JBL MS-8 and additional amplifier. I have no idea if frequency response is flat or not and neither I want to measure it - whole thing sounds 1000x better for me and that what matters. :smile:

- - - Updated - - -

Well every manufacturer advises against mods and yet aftermarket industry is flourishing. I am yet to see any manufacturer voiding warranty because of basic mods. Extreme system - maybe. Addition of an amp of replacing speakers - hardly.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TEMPO_COAX.pdf 6" has 2.5" mounting depth Alternatively, 5 1/4" may be installed with adapter and it has shallower depth.

http://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Maximo-Coax.pdf has 2.2" depth for 5 1/4" speaker

I'd say plastic speaker is a bad idea. Speaker must have rigid structure for or else whole bunch of phase distortions are going to happen.

 

[FlasherZ]

Is that a QR code? The image is too small for my iphone to read it. If that's a QR code you might be able to scan it using a QR reader on your phone and that might give you more info...

I've been searching for that logo via google images and haven't found anything yet either.

That's a data matrix bar code that reads "(TMN:1004833-02-A)" -- part #.

 

[gtimbers]

I made some more precise measurements. The system is quite good, but it needs some electronic tune-up to be all it can be. All of the hardware is fine and I'm confident that there guts for the software mods. Unfortunately, we may have to hope for Tesla to make some mods, and I don't find that to be very likely.

The best response is achieved with Low @ 0, Mid @ -4, and High @ 0. The Mid can be between -2 and -4 depending on taste and input selection. Bluetooth is poor so the Mid needs to be up some. The Low control is great @ 0 when stopped, but it needs to be elevated when in motion. I am using +2 - +4 while driving. The radio (FM) needs a little boost. I am using lossless USB music so I can't speak to MP3.

Tesla's implementation of the center speaker(s) is quite interesting and unique. They have it setup so that the center image for the driver is over the steering wheel and directly in front of the passenger. This makes the sound image pretty,uchidentical for both the driver and passenger.

The car really needs a decent surround generator for stereo material. The Dolby control is detrimental, and plain stereo doesn't make adequate use of the rear speakers. They might just as we'll not be there. This would be a simple software mod. The other thing that is necessary would be volume increase with vehicle speed. Also a very easy thing to do and a linear increase with speed works great. It doesn't have to be done with a microphone to be effective. I would also raise the bass level in a similar manner. Not a lot, but a few dB total at freeway speed

The implementation of these 3 things would make the system a world class Factory system. There is a moderate response hole centered around 600 Hz that if better EQ'ed would be the icing on the cake. Our only hope as aftermarket guys would be to get a processor between the 2 channel output of the head unit and the multichannel amplifier/processing box, if that is how Tesla is doing things.