Anyone have a 6MT car in addition to their Y?

[ewoodrick]

You realized that you pretty well proved my point.
"

speed would stall at lower speeds due to interruption of the combustion cycle and burn excessive fuel at higher speeds.

The ICE effectively has NO torque at low speeds. I'm not sure that one would even run at 50 RPM.

Yall just brainwashed from an ICE only perspective.

Let's look at a basic 3 speed with overdrive

• Starting from a stop. 2nd or 3rd just can't cut it.
• Accelerating from a few mph. 1st usually gives out at a very low speed, 3rd doesn't have enough torque.
• At speed - 1st or 2nd just can't go that fast.
• Overdrive is optimized for normal high-speed driving
• Adding more gears is mostly to put the engine in a better torque position while accelerating.

In other words, as my intent was, gears are only there to make up for the inability for the ICE to meet the requirements of an automobile or truck.

 

[NovaY]

You realized that you pretty well proved my point.
"


The ICE effectively has NO torque at low speeds. I'm not sure that one would even run at 50 RPM.

Yall just brainwashed from an ICE only perspective.

Let's look at a basic 3 speed with overdrive

• Starting from a stop. 2nd or 3rd just can't cut it.
• Accelerating from a few mph. 1st usually gives out at a very low speed, 3rd doesn't have enough torque.
• At speed - 1st or 2nd just can't go that fast.
• Overdrive is optimized for normal high-speed driving
• Adding more gears is mostly to put the engine in a better torque position while accelerating.

In other words, as my intent was, gears are only there to make up for the inability for the ICE to meet the requirements of an automobile or truck.

There is no starting from a stop for an ICE engine without a torque converter. This is simply a characteristic of ICE engines. A transmission and an ICE work as part of a system. Saying that gears make up for the inability of an ICE is like saying batteries make up for the inability of electric motors to turn by itself. You also ignore the fuel economy point.

 

[Nubo]

Yup, 2019 Miata! Only complaint is the Model Y steering wheel feels sportier.

View attachment 915994

Did you stop there because of the orange?

 

[ewoodrick]

There is no starting from a stop for an ICE engine without a torque converter. This is simply a characteristic of ICE engines. A transmission and an ICE work as part of a system. Saying that gears make up for the inability of an ICE is like saying batteries make up for the inability of electric motors to turn by itself. You also ignore the fuel economy point.

Okay, my original post where I said that gears were there ONLY to optimize torque may have been an exaggeration. They are there for a number of other shortcomings of the ICE.

But back to main point, and the point of this thread, driving with gears is something that people got used to because they were needed, not because they were fun.
And for those that think that driving with gears is fun, well, it's pretty obvious that you are in a dwindling minority, as so few ICE cars have manual transmissions anymore, lots of ICE cars going to the much more efficient and intelligent CV transmissions.

Driving a manual transmission car is like dialing a rotary phone. Sure, it's fun (actually just different) every once in a while, but it gets boring to most, pretty quick.

Manual transmissions are pretty much becoming a relic of the past, as well as the drivers who use them.

 

[nate704]

I drive a manual and here is the PROS and CONS

PROS
1. Easier and cheaper to maintain/fix
2. Theft prevention for millennial/Gen Z thieves who don't know how to drive a manual car

CONS
1. You need to learn how to drive a manual tranny car
2. Slow at start
3. Slow to react for emergency
4. Less fuel efficient for city stop and go traffic
5. You want to cut off your left leg during severe stop and go traffic for hours
6. Family member cannot drive if they don't know how to drive a manual tranny car during emergency
7. Money Shift!!

 

[White Shadow]

You realized that you pretty well proved my point.
"


The ICE effectively has NO torque at low speeds. I'm not sure that one would even run at 50 RPM.

Yall just brainwashed from an ICE only perspective.

Let's look at a basic 3 speed with overdrive

• Starting from a stop. 2nd or 3rd just can't cut it.
• Accelerating from a few mph. 1st usually gives out at a very low speed, 3rd doesn't have enough torque.
• At speed - 1st or 2nd just can't go that fast.
• Overdrive is optimized for normal high-speed driving
• Adding more gears is mostly to put the engine in a better torque position while accelerating.

In other words, as my intent was, gears are only there to make up for the inability for the ICE to meet the requirements of an automobile or truck.

LOL....engines idle speed is approximately 800 - 850 RMP. There's no situation where an ICE would be at 50 RPM.

 

[White Shadow]

Okay, my original post where I said that gears were there ONLY to optimize torque may have been an exaggeration. They are there for a number of other shortcomings of the ICE.

But back to main point, and the point of this thread, driving with gears is something that people got used to because they were needed, not because they were fun.
And for those that think that driving with gears is fun, well, it's pretty obvious that you are in a dwindling minority, as so few ICE cars have manual transmissions anymore, lots of ICE cars going to the much more efficient and intelligent CV transmissions.

Driving a manual transmission car is like dialing a rotary phone. Sure, it's fun (actually just different) every once in a while, but it gets boring to most, pretty quick.

Manual transmissions are pretty much becoming a relic of the past, as well as the drivers who use them.

Being necessary and being fun aren't always mutually exclusive. Something can be necessary and be fun. And don't look now, but not just manual transmission using gears and/or gearing. There are plenty 8-, 9-, and even 10-speed automatic transmission vehicles all over the roads. So you point about being in a dwindling minority is completely false. The vast majority of vehicles on the roads today use gears. EVs and CVTs equipped cars are just a small fraction compared to cars that actually use gears.

And to compare the fun factor of dialing a rotary phone to driving a manual transmission car just proves that you're completely out of touch with reality or at best just completely ignorant.

BTW, do you think Tesla doesn't use gearing? If so, you're very uniformed. Gearing is absolutely necessary on a Tesla too.

 

[White Shadow]

I drive a manual and here is the PROS and CONS

PROS
1. Easier and cheaper to maintain/fix
2. Theft prevention for millennial/Gen Z thieves who don't know how to drive a manual car

CONS
1. You need to learn how to drive a manual tranny car
2. Slow at start
3. Slow to react for emergency
4. Less fuel efficient for city stop and go traffic
5. You want to cut off your left leg during severe stop and go traffic for hours
6. Family member cannot drive if they don't know how to drive a manual tranny car during emergency
7. Money Shift!!

Slow at start? Hmm...not so much. I can do 1.7 seconds 60' times in my manual transmission quattro Audi. That's fairly quick off the line.

 

[nate704]

Slow at start? Hmm...not so much. I can do 1.7 seconds 60' times in my manual transmission quattro Audi. That's fairly quick off the line.

That is your perfect launch. You cannot repeat that every time. It is also slower then the same audi model with DSG/dual clutch gear box.

 

[White Shadow]

That is your perfect launch. You cannot repeat that every time. It is also slower then the same audi model with DSG/dual clutch gear box.

I can repeat it every single time. It's an AWD car. Hold the RPM and launch....zero wheel spin. 1.7 short times all day long. I have probably 20 time slips with 1.7 short times, all within a few thousands of a seconds of each other. And it's not slower than a DSG/dual clutch. The car was made manual or torque converter automatic only.

 

[ewoodrick]

Being necessary and being fun aren't always mutually exclusive. Something can be necessary and be fun. And don't look now, but not just manual transmission using gears and/or gearing. There are plenty 8-, 9-, and even 10-speed automatic transmission vehicles all over the roads. So you point about being in a dwindling minority is completely false. The vast majority of vehicles on the roads today use gears. EVs and CVTs equipped cars are just a small fraction compared to cars that actually use gears.

And to compare the fun factor of dialing a rotary phone to driving a manual transmission car just proves that you're completely out of touch with reality or at best just completely ignorant.

BTW, do you think Tesla doesn't use gearing? If so, you're very uniformed. Gearing is absolutely necessary on a Tesla too.

Sorry, confusing manual and automatic transmissions. There are very few manual transmissions sold today. The number of people that have driven a manual transmission is dwindling.

 

[nate704]

I can repeat it every single time. It's an AWD car. Hold the RPM and launch....zero wheel spin. 1.7 short times all day long. I have probably 20 time slips with 1.7 short times, all within a few thousands of a seconds of each other. And it's not slower than a DSG/dual clutch. The car was made manual or torque converter automatic only.

Again, that is your perfect clutch dump with perfect RPM. You might be able to do 20 times, but not 20000000 times.

DSG cars are always faster than the manual cars always.

 

[NovaY]

Okay, my original post where I said that gears were there ONLY to optimize torque may have been an exaggeration. They are there for a number of other shortcomings of the ICE.

But back to main point, and the point of this thread, driving with gears is something that people got used to because they were needed, not because they were fun.
And for those that think that driving with gears is fun, well, it's pretty obvious that you are in a dwindling minority, as so few ICE cars have manual transmissions anymore, lots of ICE cars going to the much more efficient and intelligent CV transmissions.

Driving a manual transmission car is like dialing a rotary phone. Sure, it's fun (actually just different) every once in a while, but it gets boring to most, pretty quick.

Manual transmissions are pretty much becoming a relic of the past, as well as the drivers who use them.

???

Are you seriously trying to argue that the subjective preferences of others, the things that bring them joy, are invalid because your own preferences are different or that they are in the minority?

 

[blinkme323]

Sorry, confusing manual and automatic transmissions. There are very few manual transmissions sold today. The number of people that have driven a manual transmission is dwindling.

Sorry, but what is your directive here? I'm confused? Let's bring this back on topic please.

 

[White Shadow]

Again, that is your perfect clutch dump with perfect RPM. You might be able to do 20 times, but not 20000000 times.

DSG cars are always faster than the manual cars always.

Have you ever drag raced a car at a track? It's not hard to press the gas to get your desired RPM. And if you have launch control, it's beyond easy. 20 times out of 20 tries is all I need to do to say it's 100% repeatable. AWD takes the traction variable out of the equation. I could go to a track today and guarantee you that I'll get a 1.7 short time on any given run. It's as easy as running consistent times in a Tesla.

 

[White Shadow]

???

Are you seriously trying to argue that the subjective preferences of others, the things that bring them joy, are invalid because your own preferences are different or that they are in the minority?

Yup, nailed it. Haters will always be haters. I just find it amusing that there are haters on every side. Lots of ICE people hate EVs. And lots of EV people hate ICE and more specifically manual transmissions. Me? I like them all and I don't really care what anyone else thinks. So bring on the hate, I'll say to the haters! LOL

 

[nate704]

No one said they hate manual tranny cars. You just cannot accept the fact and keep denying and pretending it is someone else's fault/hate, which is not.

 

[shurik74]

I love manuals, driving them since I was 13 years old! You get engaged fully with a car controlling it the way you want with three pedals! EV's don't have soul, just one pedal drive... Don't take me wrong, I like my wife's Tesla for super car acceleration but that's it.

 

[White Shadow]

No one said they hate manual tranny cars. You just cannot accept the fact and keep denying and pretending it is someone else's fault/hate, which is not.

Not at all....I couldn't care less if anyone hates or loves manual transmission cars, ICE cars, etc... The only thing that matters to me is what I like or don't like. That said, when I see misinformation being stated/spread, I'll correct it. No hard feelings at all though...

 

[kyogre]

Did you stop there because of the orange?

Yup. But also to fill up gas because this is an ICE car. Feels kinda weird that my kids won't even know how to use a gas station, much less drive a manual.

Funny how this post has steered toward manuals existing only out of necessity but not fun. That's definitely not the case for sports cars currently offered in stick shift (Mazda, BMW, Porsche, Ford). In fact, the used market has shown to highly value manual versions of sports cars vs their auto/DSG/PDK equivalents.

I love manual things. I'd rather pedal my bike than use an e-bike. I'd rather walk/run than drive. I like to wash my own car vs use a car wash. It's totally subjective and there will always be people that have preferences that might not be the most efficient or practical.