All discussion of Lucid Motors

[Mengy]

So Tom Moloughney charges a Lucid Dream from zero to full, and it takes 138kWh of energy to fully charge what Lucid claims to be a 118kWh battery pack?

I think the EPA docs were correct, the pack is more like 134kWh rather than 118kWh like Lucid claims, which would mean the car is not near as efficient as Lucid claims it is.

 

[RobStark]

So Tom Moloughney charges a Lucid Dream from zero to full, and it takes 138kWh of energy to fully charge what Lucid claims to be a 118kWh battery pack?

I think the EPA docs were correct, the pack is more like 134kWh rather than 118kWh like Lucid claims, which would mean the car is not near as efficient as Lucid claims it is.

Lucid claims 118 kWh useable.

It may very well be 134 kWh gross.

Charging loses are going to be greater at 300 kW fast charging than 150 kW fast charging.

Doesn't necessarily change the efficiency of the car.

 

[Todd Burch]

Tom did his insideevs podcast this morning. Talked about fast charging an Air Dream Range.

Reached peak 303 kW for a little bit.

Charged 100 miles in 5 minutes.

Charged 300 miles in 21 minutes.

And pumped 134 kWh (!) into the pack. So either the charging efficiency is quite low, or that pack is considerably larger than 118 kWh.

 

[Todd Burch]

Lucid claims 118 kWh useable.

It may very well be 134 kWh gross.

Charging loses are going to be greater at 300 kW fast charging than 150 kW fast charging.

Doesn't necessarily change the efficiency of the car.

Many if not most would argue that it does indeed affect the efficiency of the car. Just as miles per gallon of gasoline put into the tank matters, miles per kWh put into the battery matters. It shows how far you're going per given unit of energy. You can't exclude charging efficiency from the efficiency of the car. DC to DC charging efficiency should be in the 95-99% range.

 

[Doggydogworld]

So Tom Moloughney charges a Lucid Dream from zero to full, and it takes 138kWh of energy to fully charge what Lucid claims to be a 118kWh battery pack?

I think the EPA docs were correct, the pack is more like 134kWh rather than 118kWh like Lucid claims, which would mean the car is not near as efficient as Lucid claims it is.

Typical charging losses. Especially at 200++ kW due to battery cooling needs. Model S uses 114 kWh on EPA test.

 

[JRP3]

DC to DC charging efficiency should be in the 95-99% range.

Not necessarily at the high C rates they are pulling.

 

[Todd Burch]

Not necessarily at the high C rates they are pulling.

Fair enough. I’ve seen mixed values on DC fast charging efficiencies and nothing definitive. Although of course once you get up above 50% SOC and charge rate tapers significantly, those efficiencies should be approaching the mid-upper 90s.

With the 4680s and the shorter electron flow path when charging, there should be a step increase in high-C charging efficiency.

 

[MP3Mike]

Walk-through of the Lucid Air UI:

 

[RobStark]

Tom Maloughney was on the insideevs podcast.

Discussed Lucid Air and fast charging. Said ~100 Warren Reclich acolytes have been attacking him online accusing him of being a fraud and a paid schil for Lucid.

Said he will do video showing meticulous test on Air Dream, Model S Plaid, and Taycan. He said it will show at a 350kW charger it will fill the pack 118 kWh and have 16 kWh charging losses. He will also show how many kWh is required to fill Model S Plaid and Taycan. And show charging losses. He said he expects Tesla to have the least charging losses as a percentage because the charging power is the least. But he expects something comparable.

 

[JRP3]

Warren is a bit of a drama queen. Dillon Loomis had some criticisms of Warren's claims in this video and Warren freaked out and responded with a lot of misinformation, some of which I pointed out in the comment section.

 

[RobStark]

By Tom Moloughney

Lucid Air DC Fast Charge Follow Up: Charging Losses Explained

We do a deep dive into the charging efficiency and losses incurred during our Lucid Air DC fast charge test and compare it to the Tesla Model S Plaid.

insideevs.com

 

[Mengy]

By Tom Moloughney

Lucid Air DC Fast Charge Follow Up: Charging Losses Explained

We do a deep dive into the charging efficiency and losses incurred during our Lucid Air DC fast charge test and compare it to the Tesla Model S Plaid.

insideevs.com

That still seems very inefficient to me though? My friend who has a 2019 M3 is never more than 2-3% over what the battery takes when DC fast charging at an Electrify America charger (they display the kWh put into the battery). Tom is saying the Lucid lost 13% during fast charging, and that just seems unusually high to me?

Do Tesla's simply lose much less energy while fast charging?

 

[JRP3]

My friend who has a 2019 M3 is never more than 2-3% over what the battery takes when DC fast charging at an Electrify America charger

At what power level?

 

[Accident]

Bjorn Nyland has a few videos charging the Model 3 at Ionity 350 kW chargers.

93% efficiency charging 10% to 90% at a max rate of 191kW. The efficiency is about 90% while it's charging at +120kW

 

[RobStark]

That still seems very inefficient to me though? My friend who has a 2019 M3 is never more than 2-3% over what the battery takes when DC fast charging at an Electrify America charger (they display the kWh put into the battery). Tom is saying the Lucid lost 13% during fast charging, and that just seems unusually high to me?

Do Tesla's simply lose much less energy while fast charging?

No, I don't believe Model 3 is losing 2-3% to charging losses while charging from 0-100% with a peak of almost 250 kW.

Here is the end of Tom's article.

Conclusion:​

As you can see, the Model S Plaid actually documents slightly higher charging losses in its EPA filing than that Lucid Air did, 15% compared to 14%. However, the EPA filings only require AC charging data, not DC fast charging information, and as we mention above there are differences, and the charging results depend on a variety of outside factors.

Still, based on the official EPA filings, in our opinion, if one were to accept the fact that the Tesla Model S has a 99.3 kWh battery pack, one should also accept the fact that the Lucid Air Dream Edition has a 118 kWh pack.


Coming from Tom is a vid of Model S Plaid fast charging from 0-100%

 

[mark95476]

Porsche were hyping their superfast >300kW charging rates so that's the natural comparison to Lucid. Porsche Taycan and Lucid are at similar price points.

Also, I think Porsche added a setting or limiter over battery degradation concerns.

 

[RobStark]

Lucid posted this picture on Twitter on Tuesday.

 

[Mengy]

Lucid is under investigation by the SEC over concerns about the SPAC deal:

Lucid Motors subpoenaed by the SEC over its SPAC deal. Shares plunge

 

[juanmedina]

The Tesla Model S Plaid Is the Quickest-Charging EV We've Tested

The Tesla Model S Plaid Is the Quickest-Charging EV We've Tested​

The Plaid can accept 250 kW for five minutes, helping it to beat the previous Model S's charging speed by nearly 20 percent....

....Its total time was 38 minutes—some nine minutes, or 19 percent, quicker than the 2021 Model S Long Range Plus we tested—with the highest average charging rate (125 kilowatts) we've seen yet. That betters the average charging rate that we've measured on the Audi e-tron (121 kW) and Porsche Taycan (118 kW) and obliterates that of some other EVs, such as the VW ID.4 (82 kW) or Ford Mustang Mach-E (47 kW).

Good stuff. Hopefully they will the Lucid soon.

 

[mltv]

Lucid Group, Inc. Announces Proposed Convertible Senior Notes Offering

Lucid Group, Inc. ("Lucid")(Nasdaq: LCID) today announced its intention to offer, subject to market and other conditions, $1,750,000,000 aggregate principal amount of convertible senior notes due 2026 (the "notes") in a private offering to persons reasonably believed to be qualified...

finance.yahoo.com

SP dropping AH