Alignment no longer part of Annual Service?

[sorka]

Its almost a 3-year old car at this point, and the company is 12 years old, hardly brand new. Regardless, using that argument means that the company is charging us to be beta testers for it. If they are using these inspections to improve future products, they should be paying for the inspections and wrapping that into the development cost of the future cars.

Um. Compared to a 100 year old company that has iteratively modified one existing platform into another over generations. By comparison, Tesla was just born yesterday. It's astonishing they've gone as far as they have in such a small amount of time.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Um. Compared to a 100 year old company that has iteratively modified one existing platform into another over generations. By comparison, Tesla was just born yesterday. It's astonishing they've gone as far as they have in such a small amount of time.

Agree with this ^^

 

[rxlawdude]

Be aware that if you purchase the "extended warranty" (really a misnomer as it's a contract to repair items and not a legal warranty), you MUST have Tesla do its $600 (or discounted, in the case of the prepaid maintenance) service EVERY 12,500 miles or once a year, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

Those driving the car more than 12,500 miles will not have the full 4 or 8 years, as the 12,500 mile interval will come back and bite later.

So, to recap: First 50,000 miles/4 years is covered under a warranty. You do not need to take your MS to maintenance services at 12,500 miles or one year to keep this factory warranty in place. But those who bought the extended warranty (or those who buy it prior to expiration of the original warranty) must be aware that it's not worth the paper it's written on unless you have always abided to the 12,000mile interval.

Be informed consumers.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Be aware that if you purchase the "extended warranty" (really a misnomer as it's a contract to repair items and not a legal warranty), you MUST have Tesla do its $600 (or discounted, in the case of the prepaid maintenance) service EVERY 12,500 miles or once a year, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

The standard 50,000 mile warranty also states that in order for the warranty to be valid, the car must be serviced according to Tesla's recommendations. Tesla's recommendations are every year or 12,500 miles, whichever occurs first, per the owner's manual. So even with the standard warranty, which you say is immune to the service intervals, states in writing that you must adhere to Tesla's recommendations. Yet Tesla still does warranty work on my car even though I don't adhere to their stated recommendations.

Those driving the car more than 12,500 miles will not have the full 4 or 8 years, as the 12,500 mile interval will come back and bite later.

So, to recap: First 50,000 miles/4 years is covered under a warranty. You do not need to take your MS to maintenance services at 12,500 miles or one year to keep this factory warranty in place. But those who bought the extended warranty (or those who buy it prior to expiration of the original warranty) must be aware that it's not worth the paper it's written on unless you have always abided to the 12,000mile interval.

Be informed consumers.

You are speaking strictly about the language contained in the warranty, you are not speaking about Tesla policy. Those are two different things.

For instance, in the 50,000 mile warranty Tesla specifically states that squeaks and rattles are NOT COVERED, yet Tesla goes out of its way to address those issues. What is in writing is superseded by Tesla's actions. Tesla's pre-paid service plan requires the car to be serviced every year or 12,500 miles, whichever occurs first, but Tesla has changed that policy in practice and has waived both mileage and time restrictions. I have an email to that effect, which I've posted in other threads.

Just because it is written does not mean it is so.

Elon's blog post saying that regular service is NOT required to maintain the warranty can just as easily be applied to the extended warranty. He did not qualify his statements in any way, and did not make his comments specific to which warranty. He wrote generally, so one can take that to reasonably apply to all warranties. Did you read that blog post?

 

[Larry Chanin]

Be aware that if you purchase the "extended warranty" (really a misnomer as it's a contract to repair items and not a legal warranty), you MUST have Tesla do its $600 (or discounted, in the case of the prepaid maintenance) service EVERY 12,500 miles or once a year, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

Those driving the car more than 12,500 miles will not have the full 4 or 8 years, as the 12,500 mile interval will come back and bite later.

So, to recap: First 50,000 miles/4 years is covered under a warranty. You do not need to take your MS to maintenance services at 12,500 miles or one year to keep this factory warranty in place. But those who bought the extended warranty (or those who buy it prior to expiration of the original warranty) must be aware that it's not worth the paper it's written on unless you have always abided to the 12,000mile interval.

Be informed consumers.

Service plans

Annual inspection, $600
Every year or 12,500 miles

According to this Tesla web page (link provided above) there is no requirement for WHICHEVER COMES FIRST, at least as of today. :wink:

Larry

 

[breser]

Just because it is written does not mean it is so.

And just because Tesla has done something in the past or for some other person despite what their legal obligations are doesn't mean they will do it for you. If you expect them to do more than what they're obligated to do you're setting yourself up for a disappointment when policies change.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

And just because Tesla has done something in the past or for some other person despite what their legal obligations are doesn't mean they will do it for you. If you expect them to do more than what they're obligated to do you're setting yourself up for a disappointment when policies change.

Are you saying that my email from Jerome - Senior VP of Sales & Service - telling me that I can use my 4 pre-paid service visits at any time or mileage interval of my choosing will enable Tesla to deny me warranty coverage under the Extended Warranty?

Are you saying that ANYONE who did not service their cars at exactly the intervals prescribed in the owner's manual can be denied standard warranty service at any time in the future, as it states in the warranty document?

All of my experience with Tesla, from service on up to the senior management, tells me otherwise.

 

[breser]

Are you saying that my email from Jerome - Senior VP of Sales & Service - telling me that I can use my 4 pre-paid service visits at any time or mileage interval of my choosing will enable Tesla to deny me warranty coverage under the Extended Warranty?

Contract explicitly excludes a communication like that from altering your agreement. The only way to change the agreement is to have an amendment signed by bother parties. So no it really doesn't do much from a legal perspective.

However, I suspect that Tesla would honor whatever Jerome said. Especially as long as Jerome is still there. But that doesn't mean that your email means anything for me.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Contract explicitly excludes a communication like that from altering your agreement. The only way to change the agreement is to have an amendment signed by bother parties. So no it really doesn't do much from a legal perspective.

However, I suspect that Tesla would honor whatever Jerome said. Especially as long as Jerome is still there. But that doesn't mean that your email means anything for me.

Well, I was talking about me.

Also, the warranty and service documents contain no signatures - neither mine nor Tesla's. The document is a statement of policy, and I believe that policy can be changed by an email communication. After all, Tesla includes language saying it reserves the right to make changes and without notice.

 

[breser]

Well, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about me.

Also, the warranty and service contracts contain no signatures - neither mine nor Tesla's.

The original warranty is accepted as part of the purchase (which is usually accepted via the online delivery acceptance). The warranty and service contracts are usually sold online and accepted that way. The original method of agreement does not have to match the method of amendment. Tesla's contracts always stipulate a signed agreement by both parties (with an officer of the corporation on Tesla's side) in order to amend them. Go read your contract yourself.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The original warranty is accepted as part of the purchase (which is usually accepted via the online delivery acceptance). The warranty and service contracts are usually sold online and accepted that way. The original method of agreement does not have to match the method of amendment. Tesla's contracts always stipulate a signed agreement by both parties by and officer of the corporation in order to amend them. Go read your contract yourself.

That contradicts the clause where Tesla can make changes unilaterally and without notice. At least such language appears in the pre-paid service contract, and that is the language that I relied upon to take my communication from Jerome to be an amendment to that agreement. By contrast, things that have changed - cost of ranger service, valet service radius, etc. - were never promised to remain unchanged in any contract or policy document as far as I know. Tesla appears to be acting consistently and I would have no reason to doubt anything they've said to me.

 

[breser]

That contradicts the clause where Tesla can make changes unilaterally and without notice. At least such language appears in the pre-paid service contract, and that is the language that was changed for me when I received my communication from Jerome.

This is the clause that's in the original vehicle warranty. Which is even stronger, it flat out says nobody can modify the warranty including Tesla employees. But that they may do something more for you anyway.

Modifications and Waivers
No person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Tesla employee or authorized representative,
can modify or waive any part of this New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Tesla may occasionally offer
to pay a portion or all of the cost of certain repairs that are no longer covered by this New
Vehicle Limited Warranty for specific vehicle models, which some states may refer to as
“adjustment programs.” In such circumstances, Tesla will notify all known registered owners of
affected vehicles. You may also inquire to Tesla directly regarding the applicability of such
programs, if any, to your vehicle. Tesla may also occasionally offer to pay a portion or all of the
cost of certain vehicle repairs that are no longer covered by this New Vehicle Limited Warranty
on an ad hoc case-by-case basis. Tesla reserves the right to do the above and to make changes to
vehicles manufactured or sold by Tesla and the applicable warranties, at any time, without
incurring any obligation to make the same or similar payment or changes for vehicles Tesla
previously manufactured or sold, or applicable warranties including this New Vehicle Limited
Warranty. Nothing herein shall imply that any Tesla vehicle is free of defects.

The MVPA has this bit in it.

Governing Law; Integration; Assignment. The terms of this Agreement are governed by, and to be interpreted according to, the laws of the State in which we are licensed to sell motor vehicles that is nearest to your address indicated on your Vehicle Configuration. Prior agreements, oral statements, negotiations, communications or representations about the Vehicle sold under this Agreement are superseded by this Agreement. Terms relating to the purchase not expressly contained herein are not binding. We may assign this Agreement at our discretion to one of our affiliated entities.

It's been a while but I believe the extended warranty and service plan has the language I was referring to before. But I don't happen to have those agreements handy.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I understand what you are saying and that the language exists in the warranty and service contracts, etc., but implicit in your statements is that Tesla is not acting in good faith with its customers because it is recommending actions that would lead Tesla to deny future warranty coverage. Elon wrote in a blog that regular maintenance is NOT needed to maintain warranty coverage, which is in direct contradiction to the written warranty. Jerome sent me an email stating that the service intervals have been lifted. If I am to take your point of view, I am not to believe Elon or Jerome, one being the most senior officer of the company, and who have offered specific instructions contrary to their written policies.

So the take-away is that Tesla is telling us to do things that are contrary to written policies so as to enable Tesla to deny us coverage later. I simply cannot subscribe to this point of view because it is contrary to every experience that I've had with this company. I think Elon would be surprised to hear that he does not have the power to change Tesla warranty and service policies without sending all owners a signed, written amendment.

 

[breser]

I understand what you are saying and that the language exists in the warranty and service contracts, etc., but implicit in your statements is that Tesla is not acting in good faith with its customers because it is recommending actions that would lead Tesla to deny future warranty coverage. Elon wrote in a blog that regular maintenance is NOT needed to maintain warranty coverage, which is in direct contradiction to the written warranty. Jerome sent me an email stating that the service intervals have been lifted. If I am to take your point of view, I am not to believe Elon or Jerome, one being the most senior officer of the company, and who have offered specific instructions contrary to their written policies.

So the take-away is that Tesla is telling us to do things that are contrary to written policies so as to enable Tesla to deny us coverage later. I simply cannot subscribe to this point of view because it is contrary to every experience that I've had with this company. I think Elon would be surprised to hear that he does not have the power to change Tesla warranty and service policies without sending all owners a signed, written update.

I'm not suggesting that Tesla is doing that to try and mislead you. I'm just saying don't count on Tesla doing something different than what the contract actually requires them to do. I'm trying to set expectations correctly, which is that Tesla may go above and beyond what they have to. But nobody should expect that they do so. In fact I'd argue that's almost exactly what the original warranties language is saying.

If Elon or Jerome says something that's probably a very good sign that's going to be Tesla's policy going forward. I would expect people who relied on that statement would probably be ok, especially in the case of a warranty limitations.

But policies do change. We can't expect just because alignment service was included in annual service at one point that it will be forever. Anything Tesla has locked in by agreement they are bound to. But things like a Service Advisor telling me the reason for cost of annual service being $600 is the alignment doesn't mean that without a service contract I should expect to get an allignment forever either.

There's a difference between reasonable expectations and expecting Tesla to never change. Not saying you're suggesting that they can't change, but I want to make sure that people understand that you really shouldn't count on anything that Tesla is doing above and beyond what they actually have to.

 

[gizmoboy]

...I want to make sure that people understand that you really shouldn't count on anything that Tesla is doing above and beyond what they actually have to.

That's the key point.

Any while they may go above and beyond that, it's always in their sole discretion, and it may change based on other factors (stock price, market pressures, ownership change, etc.).

I got an email clarification from my local sales center that the pre-purchased service visits don't have to be used at any particular time, and I would certainly try to hold them to that when I buy and want to use them at my timeframe, but I know that my argument is not as strong as a possible counter-argument by them as to the letter of the contract to which I agreed.

 

[breser]

For what it's worth my vehicle was in for the first annual service (at 17,000 miles already). They said it didn't need alignment so no idea on the policy situation.

 

[rxlawdude]

I understand what you are saying and that the language exists in the warranty and service contracts, etc., but implicit in your statements is that Tesla is not acting in good faith with its customers because it is recommending actions that would lead Tesla to deny future warranty coverage. Elon wrote in a blog that regular maintenance is NOT needed to maintain warranty coverage, which is in direct contradiction to the written warranty. Jerome sent me an email stating that the service intervals have been lifted. If I am to take your point of view, I am not to believe Elon or Jerome, one being the most senior officer of the company, and who have offered specific instructions contrary to their written policies.

So the take-away is that Tesla is telling us to do things that are contrary to written policies so as to enable Tesla to deny us coverage later. I simply cannot subscribe to this point of view because it is contrary to every experience that I've had with this company. I think Elon would be surprised to hear that he does not have the power to change Tesla warranty and service policies without sending all owners a signed, written amendment.

Amped, you're in Real Estate. You should know better than anyone that the "four corners" of a written contract is what the courts will enforce. Period.

I'm just trying to prevent you from becoming another P-D when Tesla begins enforcing its contract terms more strictly.

It is absolutely true that not performing the 12,500 mile or 1 year interval will NOT void the WARRANTY, that's not the issue. That's settled law. TMC would have to prove that the failure resulted directly from not having maintenance done at the prescribed intervals, and that's a high bar. Rather, they will honor the warranty unless it's obvious. (Example from the ICE world: failure to maintain oil in the crankcase would void the warranty for the engine rebuild, but not affect the warranty on the rest of the vehicle.)

There are two issues, both are CONTRACT terms and NOT WARRANTIES.

• The Pre-paid service plan. Plain language terms state "Notwithstanding the date this Agreement is purchased or becomes effective, maintenance inspectionsmust be performed within 1,000 miles or 30 days of the specified maintenance intervals for Your selectedPlan. Any scheduled maintenance not completed within such time will be excluded and no maintenanceinspections will be added as a replacement for any such excluded maintenance inspections." It's as clear as can be. Tesla can tell you to take a flying leap when you come in at one year and 20,000 miles and expect that to be your "first" of four "annual" services. I read this as Tesla will consider the first 12,500 mile inspection forfeit, and believe any court will similarly interpret it thusly.
• The Vehicle Extended Service Plan (inartfully referred to as "extended warranty," which it legally is not). The plain language states "[t]he Owner’s Manual includes specific recommendations regarding the use, operations, and maintenanceof the Vehicle. To maintain the validity of this Vehicle ESA, You must follow correct operationsprocedures and have Your Vehicle serviced as recommended by Tesla. If requested, proof of requiredservice, including receipts showing date and mileage of the Vehicle at the time of service, must bepresented before any repairs under this Vehicle ESA commence. Service within 1,000 miles and/or 30days of Tesla’s recommended intervals shall be considered compliant with the terms of this Vehicle ESA.

You can pretend that a non-binding email will have an effect, but good luck. I will take the written terms as they are, and not expect anything beyond that. If they do provide services in excess of what is promised in the New Vehicle Warranty and VESP, or waive the service intervals, I'll be delighted. But I won't expect it.

 

[Electricfan]

I'm not going to read all 157 posts on this thread, but I'll weigh in anyway...

I just (24 hrs ago) plunked down my $1900 for the 4 yr service plan. I read the agreement and I was certainly convinced that alignment was part of the deal. If not, I'll be sorely disappointed.

 

[rxlawdude]

I'm not going to read all 157 posts on this thread, but I'll weigh in anyway...

I just (24 hrs ago) plunked down my $1900 for the 4 yr service plan. I read the agreement and I was certainly convinced that alignment was part of the deal. If not, I'll be sorely disappointed.

But you're missing so much great information. It's been well documented that unless alignment is excluded from that pre-paid service plan, it is included and Tesla will honor it. Those going in "a la carte" will pay extra for alignment beyond the $600.

 

[Electricfan]

But you're missing so much great information. It's been well documented that unless alignment is excluded from that pre-paid service plan, it is included and Tesla will honor it. Those going in "a la carte" will pay extra for alignment beyond the $600.

Awesome, thanks, knew a generous forum member would save me the trouble!