It would at minimum throw an error with the 60kwh pack firmware. Since Tesla reloads new firmware after something as simple as a charge port replacement, I sure as hell wouldn't want to try a 60kwh>85kwh swap without reloading the proper firmware. That is just not smart.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
60kw upgrade to 85kw, Was told by multiple Tesla Sources not possible at this time.
- Thread starter islandbayy
- Start date
I hope you're right. Elon has said he loves upgrades, so let's hope that when the longer range battery pack is developed for commercial use, Tesla sets the upgrade at a reasonable price.
I have a MS60. Have had it since April. My daily work commute is 35 miles roundtrip. On Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays, my travel is longer (roughly 100 miles roundtrip). The MS60 is enough for me as I don't drive very far. On some occasions, I will drive down to San Diego, Santa Clarita, or Palm Springs (in the 90 to 110 mile range one way). the car has enough juice to get there...just have to plan ahead on how to get the car charged back to full again. Would it have been nice to have the 85kWh? sure. any buffer is nice. Just wasn't in my budget. For any longer trips, i'll rent a car or fly. I am happy with my purchase and it hasn't changed the way I drive. although, i am thinking of doing a SF trip with the car to check out the SC network, something I would not have contemplated in an ICE.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
So I wanted to resurrect this thread because I am interested in doing this.
Now that there are a lot of Model S' (sorta) on the road now, there are a lot of wrecks/salvage cars out there. After upgrading David Noland's car, Tesla no longer wants to upgrade customer's 60 Kwh cars to 85 kwh. The only way to upgrade is sell your car and buy another.
I drive a lot of miles. It won't be too long before my warranty is going to expire, but a little longer before the battery/drive unit warranty is going to expire, but anyway let's set warranty issues aside. There are now salvage batteries showing up for sale. If I wanted to swap out my 60 for an salvage 85 what would it take? Tesla won't touch it. I assume there is a firmware change that needs to happen. Does anyone know anything about this? Will right to repair laws ever apply to Tesla, thus giving more access to the software on this car? Has anyone done the swap besides David Noland? I though someone here with a 60 was given a loaner 85 battery while their 60 battery was being refurbished.
Now that there are a lot of Model S' (sorta) on the road now, there are a lot of wrecks/salvage cars out there. After upgrading David Noland's car, Tesla no longer wants to upgrade customer's 60 Kwh cars to 85 kwh. The only way to upgrade is sell your car and buy another.
I drive a lot of miles. It won't be too long before my warranty is going to expire, but a little longer before the battery/drive unit warranty is going to expire, but anyway let's set warranty issues aside. There are now salvage batteries showing up for sale. If I wanted to swap out my 60 for an salvage 85 what would it take? Tesla won't touch it. I assume there is a firmware change that needs to happen. Does anyone know anything about this? Will right to repair laws ever apply to Tesla, thus giving more access to the software on this car? Has anyone done the swap besides David Noland? I though someone here with a 60 was given a loaner 85 battery while their 60 battery was being refurbished.
I actually have already gone through this whole thing. You know me
If I could have done this, I would have already, over a year ago. Here is the conclusion to much information begging, asking, and bribery.
Swapping the battery is the easy part, a couple hours at most if you have a lift. The hard part is the software. After the battery swich, a Tesla Tech will need to update firmware and unlock the car for the different size battery. Problem is, I was told tesla will not do it on a salvage battery, only on a bettery they have sold new, though, refuse to sell a new battery. At this time, you would need to get a Moonlighting Tech to do it on site. Problem then becomes, how Tesla has locked down the computer systems in the car. They are now both locally and remotely locked. The cars now REQUIRE A ACTIVE INTERNET CONNECTION (At least in the USA and Canada) to allow the tech accessing the car to log in, by authenticating the log in details, and the specific tech with Tesla's database.No internet? Then you get a free Tow-Job.
Have you asked to swap the 60 for a new 85 or did you ask if you can just buy a new 85 battery? I can understand they don't want to upgrade 60 to 85 because what are they would end up with a ton of 60 batteries. But I don't understand why they would let you purchase an 85 battery.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Thanks Islandbay.
David, when I did talk to Tesla, they said it is corporate policy to not allow any upgrade from 60 to 85. New battery or otherwise. I hope someday they may revise that policy.
My 60 battery is holding up well, as is the whole car. It's just that there are now some perfectly good 85 batteries floating around at a reasonable cost. So tempting. It would be nice to use one after the warranty is depleted due to my quickly increasing mileage.
David, when I did talk to Tesla, they said it is corporate policy to not allow any upgrade from 60 to 85. New battery or otherwise. I hope someday they may revise that policy.
My 60 battery is holding up well, as is the whole car. It's just that there are now some perfectly good 85 batteries floating around at a reasonable cost. So tempting. It would be nice to use one after the warranty is depleted due to my quickly increasing mileage.
Last edited:
Those would probably go for a lot more if Telsa would give us the info needed to install them. I feel like Tesla is trashing the value of our cars through their unreasonable and possibly illegal policies. Not that Tesla should be obligated to install these packs, but third-party shops and skilled DIYers ought to be able to do it. And Tesla should be providing the service manuals and tools that can't be acquired from any other source.
When the cars are purchased Tesla makes it clear that there are no plans to allow battery upgrades and you should order the battery size you need. So how are they "trashing the value of our cars" by not facilitating battery upgrades?
At some point in the future Tesla will (hopefully) need to deal with:
- A lot more cars on the road, especially with the smaller capacities
- Lots of batteries that need to be removed and replaced
Without wanting to rehash all the old swap v Supercharge arguments, but a reliable, automated swapper would help Tesla handle both problems. They would rather come up with Superduperchargers, but it's not a given. Tesla just really doesn't want to do swapping _now_, and CARB has taken away all incentive to do it now.
per glhs272's post above yours, "After upgrading David Noland's car, Tesla no longer wants to upgrade customer's 60 Kwh cars to 85 kwh."
so I'm guessing Tesla did it once and then said F* IT, too much work, not enough profit. IMO seems kinda lame to design and engineer it in such a way that it's possible but then refuse to allow anyone to do it.
What smaller capacities? GTFO with clowncars aka leaf and I3.
Tesla should and will stay with 200+ mile cars.
To poor to buy one? Buy a leaf.
paintpolisher
Banned
I'm not talking about upgrades.
The value of my battery pack is less, because it can't be installed in another Tesla. And if my pack fails out of warranty, I won't be able to replace it with a salvage pack. I'll be stuck paying Tesla to fix it, which will be expensive, because they have no competition for this service.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Since David got his upgrade and wrote an article about, Tesla changed it's policy to not allow it, even if you were willing to pay them a bunch money to do it. Obviously it is technically possible. In fact it's pretty easy. But every module on the car, such as the battery, drive unit, dc to dc converter, charge port is serialized and therefore is not plug and play. Even if you wanted to swap an 85 kwh battery for another 85 kwh battery, you can't do it unless tesla allows it by reprogramming the firmware on the car for the changed hardware. Right now anyway, Tesla won't allow much of anything. This effectively means all salvage Tesla cars are basically only worth the scrap value of what it's made of.
- - - Updated - - -
When I purchased my car Tesla was advertising battery swap. In fact you can still find it on their website. It has no bearing on reality. It is entirely a bait and switch deal. Now, I am not trying to be all Boo-hoo about this. I like my car even as it is. But it still concerns me from a long term viability perspective. The battery in my car is going to wear out eventually. I don't know for sure what can be done to replace when that time comes, but it certainly looks like to me that my only option would be to buy a brand new same as before battery from Tesla, installed by Tesla, if I'm lucky. It certainly appears that getting a good used or salvaged battery will never be an option. I am not aware of any other car company this tight with their serviceability.
Also, I think it is worth mentioning I understand to some degree why Tesla doesn't want people just swapping out high voltage parts willy-nilly. I would just like an avenue to be able to work with Tesla to make sure things are done safely and correctly. It's not like high voltage batteries have never been used on a car before Tesla. There are reputable third party shops able to service other electric cars and hybrids with their high voltage batteries.
Last edited:
To be fair, Tesla has an excellent warranty on the battery and so far every time someone had an issue with a battery they fixed it quickly and for free. I think that's the most important part about trusting a new technology and protecting the value of your car.
There will be a larger battery and at that point Tesla will allow upgrades. Otherwise they won't be able to keep their promise on the resale value. Once a larger battery is out, the prices of an old Model S would drop quite a bit unless they can be upgraded.
There will be a larger battery and at that point Tesla will allow upgrades. Otherwise they won't be able to keep their promise on the resale value. Once a larger battery is out, the prices of an old Model S would drop quite a bit unless they can be upgraded.
I'm just going to do a quick chime in here, As I only have a minute. I will do a longer response later this evening. I will state, when I went to the Skokie mall store to do my original first test drive right before ordering, that I specifically went out of my way and ask if in the future I wanted to upgrade my battery from a 60 to 85 kW or larger depending on what future offerings were, if I would be able to do so, either by paying the difference or whatever set price their was. The sales person I spoke to said he was unsure and went and asked a manager. when he returned, I was specifically told that yes, if I wanted to upgrade my cars battery pack after I have received it, it could be done. if I knew how bad the communication problems were with Tesla back then, I would've taken that with a grain of salt.
Last edited:
With the rate of battery failures (sure, that statement might be a bit slanted because mine went out), I would never attempt to do this on my own, and I'm a big DIYer. Even if it were possible, swapping the battery would undoubtedly void the warranty and leave a huge liability if it were to fail.
The battery is designed to be swapped out without needing a specialist. The connector was specifically designed to be plug and play. I know for sure as the person who designed the connector gave a lecture at a major university and the video is still online.
I also find it interesting that Islandbayy was specifically told that swapping out the battery was possible when he bought his car but now they changed their mind. It definitely was a big selling point for me. Knowing that battery technology advances faster than the rest of car ages, I went with the Model S with the expectation it would be somewhat future proof with the ability to buy a newer, higher capacity battery later on, or at least replace it with a new one when the old one has degraded too much for whatever reason. I hope Tesla will let us upgrade to a newer battery in the future.
Similar threads
