2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

[mmd]

RANT:

Saw this electrek article about CA Utility proposals...

Electric utilities are seeking to expand electric vehicle infrastructure with 10,000+ new charging stations in California

Here's an excerpt regarding SDG&E:
(San Diego Gas & Electric)

"The proposal also includes a special rate that incentivizes EV owners to charge their cars at times of day when clean energy is plentiful and energy prices are low.”

So, here's the Rant...

I've been on SDG&Es "EV plan" for years now.

I guess how much the $/kWh rate is for "super-off peak" (i.e. Midnight to 6am)?

Keep in mind this is the hours that you SHOULD charge your EV since the utility has the lowest demand then...

Answer: over twenty cents per kilo-watt hour. That's right!
There cheapest rate is over twenty cents!

Can you imagine what their profits are on EVs charging overnight?
It's huge. I'd love to know what their cost is but it's probably a few cents.
We are actually doing the utility a favor sinking juice overnight and we are getting gouged. Other utilities have a overnight rate that is less than ten cents.

I looked up PG&E. Is $0.12/kWh. Far more reasonable.

And you thought, they are generously promoting EVs for the environmental good
At that cheapest rate of $0.20/kwh and 3 miles/kwh for an average EV, this is more expensive than the gas costs of Toyota Prius with ~55 mpg. The Prius will cost you $2.60 for a gallon, while your utility will cost you $3.60+tax for the same 55 miles of driving.

Wait till there will be no off-peak because of more EVs. What's the rate for non-super off peak hours?

 

[Bgarret]

What proof is there that Mark actually trades in TSLA? Is there a public record somewhere?

I mean, the guy's on Twitter all day long yet his Twitter info has no link to his website nor any information on how to invest in his "hedge fund", only a link to his CNBC "Time to short Tesla" video.

If you actually find his website ( Home Page ) you see it's a barren page with no information on how to invest with him...

Who runs a business like this??

The Koch family.....by proxy.

 

[austinEV]

And you thought, they are generously promoting EVs for the environmental good
At that cheapest rate of $0.20/kwh and 3 miles/kwh for an average EV, this is more expensive than the gas costs of Toyota Prius with ~55 mpg. The Prius will cost you $2.60 for a gallon, while your utility will cost you $3.60+tax for the same 55 miles of driving.

Well who cares? Charge at home for 99% of your electrons, and pay a slight premium when you park and charge at the mall. I look forward to the day when chargers are so common we can cross shop by price. For now, the leader can use premium pricing.

 

[ggies07]

GUYS!! The GF construction has just been sped up!

Trump: So if someone wants to put up a factory, it will be expedited

 

[Dwdnjck]

My Tou rate saves me +$100/month, because my Tier 4 rate is a punitve rate of over .59/kWh. My driving costs are net"less than zero." Put that in your Prius.

 

[mmd]

GUYS!! The GF construction has just been sped up!

What about the factories in China and Europe, that was the buzz until recently?

 

[RobStark]

SCE is $ 0.137 per kWh for their ToU rate.

It was $ 0.11 for their pilot program until recently.

Tier 2 is $ 0.23 per kWh and Tier 3 is $ 0.26 for standard tiered rates.

SDG&E is a real outlier. Paid supercharging will be cheaper in San Diego.

 

[mmd]

Well who cares? Charge at home for 99% of your electrons, and pay a slight premium when you park and charge at the mall. I look forward to the day when chargers are so common we can cross shop by price. For now, the leader can use premium pricing.

 

[3Victoria]

Is Trump claiming that the US has no import duties?

Determining Duty Rates | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

 

[austinEV]

View attachment 211806

What is your point? I just said that expensive charging stations aren't a big deal because no one is making you use them. Most owners will do most charging using off-peak rates, so this retail pricing is not an impact. So you rebut by showing a cost savings vs an ICE car? You win, debate over.

 

[Off Shore]

And you thought, they are generously promoting EVs for the environmental good
At that cheapest rate of $0.20/kwh and 3 miles/kwh for an average EV, this is more expensive than the gas costs of Toyota Prius with ~55 mpg. The Prius will cost you $2.60 for a gallon, while your utility will cost you $3.60+tax for the same 55 miles of driving.

Wait till there will be no off-peak because of more EVs. What's the rate for non-super off peak hours?

SDG&E is an investor-owned utility. Their mandate is to make money for their stockholders, and they're doing that.

 

[RobStark]

SDG&E is an investor-owned utility. Their mandate is to make money for their stockholders, and they're doing that.

And it is the role of the California Public Utilities Commission to make sure those profits are not excessive and policy converges with public goals.

They get a monopoly with guaranteed profits. But those profits are relatively small and they are subject to strict regulation( in theory at least.)

 

[mmd]

What is your point? I just said that expensive charging stations aren't a big deal because no one is making you use them. Most owners will do most charging using off-peak rates, so this retail pricing is not an impact. So you rebut by showing a cost savings vs an ICE car? You win, debate over.

I think you are mistaken about what @FredTMC said. The price of $0.20/kwh is for charging AT HOME, at super off peak hours, using EV charging plan. I compared that cost to gas cost of Prius. You seem to be thinking that this is about cost of charging at chargers installed by utilities.

On a separate note: There is a reason why public utility commission has to make sure utilities are profitable. Utility companies frequently borrow money for major investments. If they are not profitable, their borrowing costs rise due to increase in default risk, increasing the utility costs for everyone. So, by some circular reasoning, they must be profitable to begin with.

 

[austinEV]

I think you are mistaken about what @FredTMC said. The price of $0.20/kwh is for charging AT HOME, at super off oeak hours, using the EV plan I compared that cost to gas cost of Prius. You seem to be thinking that this is about cost of charging at chargers installed by utilities.

Goddam it now I have to break the internet by saying I was wrong. The Electrek article he was referencing was about public chargers, didn't see that it was home charging. That is outrageous. In Texas we have such cheap power at home I don't think about it much.

 

[MP3Mike]

The price of $0.20/kwh is for charging AT HOME, at super off peak hours, using EV charging plan.

That is also the price that Tesla charges at the Superchargers in California.

 

[racer26]

I think you are mistaken about what @FredTMC said. The price of $0.20/kwh is for charging AT HOME, at super off peak hours, using EV charging plan I compared that cost to gas cost of Prius. You seem to be thinking that this is about cost of charging at chargers installed by utilities.

On a separate note: There is a reason why public utility commission has to make sure utilities are profitable. Utility companies frequently borrow money for major investments. If they are not profitable, their borrowing costs rise, increasing the utility costs for everyone. So, by some circular reasoning, they must be profitable to begin with.

Yes, but using one utility's rate (which is quite possibly the most expensive utility to buy power from in America) to make your argument does not a sound argument make.

You're correct, if your power comes from SDG&E, and you're on this rate plan, then a 55mpg Prius could potentially be cheaper, at low enough gas prices.

Similarly, if there are enough EV owners, SDG&E will eventually bow to the pressure being placed on them to not charge outrageous rates. Or else people will go to the PUC and (rightly) accuse them of gouging.

Failure to bow to the pressure and reduce the outrageous rates will simply lead to an exodus of customers choosing to de-grid their house in favour of going solar, as the price of solar is rapidly approaching this outrageous rate, if it hasn't already surpassed it.

 

[Fallenone]

GUYS!! The GF construction has just been sped up!

Doesn't really mater to Tesla. Trump was saying regulations on environmental impact/safety assessment is taking too long and he wants to shorten it. Then comes this sentence. Both Fremont and GF has already passed this phase.

 

[Vitold]

I think you are mistaken about what @FredTMC said. The price of $0.20/kwh is for charging AT HOME, at super off peak hours, using EV charging plan. I compared that cost to gas cost of Prius. You seem to be thinking that this is about cost of charging at chargers installed by utilities.

On a separate note: There is a reason why public utility commission has to make sure utilities are profitable. Utility companies frequently borrow money for major investments. If they are not profitable, their borrowing costs rise, increasing the utility costs for everyone. So, by some circular reasoning, they must be profitable to begin with.

I guess it's a bed news for Tesla Motors and good news...for Tesla Energy.

 

[austinEV]

Doesn't really mater to Tesla. Trump was saying regulations on environmental impact/safety assessment is taking too long and he wants to shorten it. Then comes this sentence. Both Fremont and GF has already passed this phase.

Yeah it sounds like Storey county is already about as permissive as you can get.

 

[ggies07]

Doesn't really mater to Tesla. Trump was saying regulations on environmental impact/safety assessment is taking too long and he wants to shorten it. Then comes this sentence. Both Fremont and GF has already passed this phase.

I was being sarcastic.....because of his tone. Sorry, boarding fail, should have ended with /sarcastic.