2015 Tesla shareholders meeting -- reporting as the meeting proceeds

[beeeerock]

I wonder: am I going to have to start a dedicated thread over this? I've been a really good boy for the past three years in not pounding people for spreading disinformation; maybe it's time I took off the gloves.

You are correct: there is no question.
You are incorrect, though: not only is that industry not a big GHG problem - it has effectively ZERO effect. Please read up on the Carbon Cycle and learn the difference between staying within the cycle versus adding previously sequestered carbon.

Conclusion: No, I'm not going to play whack-a-mole here: do your own homework and please stop addressing the wrong issues. Sigh.

I'm not talking about cow farts. Living in the heart of cattle country, I'm fully aware of what it takes to get a pound of meat to market. The hay doesn't mow itself, the fertilizers don't fall out of the sky. Pound for pound, beef is probably the most costly form of protein around from every perspective I can think of ... energy, water, dollars...

And if we were to talk about cow farts, methane is 20 or 25 times more problematic as a GHG than an equivalent weight of CO2. Some suggest far higher than that. Carbon Cycle or not (and I say 'not', because methane isn't typically considered in a simplistic carbon cycle), high intensity beef production is a costly venture. It's not a 'wrong issue'... it's 'an issue', among many. All are important to understand. Completely, not simplistically.

There are plenty of publications available via the United Nations FAO relating to various forms of agriculture and their climate change effects that are worth reading.

 

[austinEV]

I'm quite glad he made that statement. There have been quite a few debates on these forums (and the Tesla one) about whether or not Tesla allowed or tolerated local Supercharging. Apparently the answer is NO.

Just going to throw this out there again: I don't like the "free" model of supercharging. Now TM has admitted to having to persuade heavy local users to please not. Just charging people a nominal per-use charge would fix all this.

Old thread where we discussed this and I got flamed mercilessly
Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors (TSLA) - Page 89

You could even phase it in. Say that every new sale is 2k cheaper (or whatever) and will be pay-per-kWh. Existing owners have a balance shown on your account/screen that you will likely never exhaust.

That is less fun than "free" but feeling mad at abusers also has a cost.

 

[ggr]

If I'm getting mixed up with Bonnie then I'm in good company

All you whiteys look alike to me. in case it's necessary.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

Just going to throw this out there again: I don't like the "free" model of supercharging. Now TM has admitted to having to persuade heavy local users to please not. Just charging people a nominal per-use charge would fix all this.

Old thread where we discussed this and I got flamed mercilessly
Long-Term Fundamentals of Tesla Motors (TSLA) - Page 89

You could even phase it in. Say that every new sale is 2k cheaper (or whatever) and will be pay-per-kWh. Existing owners have a balance shown on your account/screen that you will likely never exhaust.

That is less fun than "free" but feeling mad at abusers also has a cost.

Well - existing owners MUST get a free account that never expires. That's been promised countless times by every official channel possible. I think it's a moot point anyhow as Tesla has no intention of changing this, they will just keep building stations until congestion isn't an issue. I'm okay with that model, too.

 

[dhanson865]

I Think there is a reason why gulf wing doors are so rare. I will not be surprised if there will be another delay if they still have not managed to figure out the problems. Not to mention, have they even tested them in snow and icy conditions.

gulf wing? I assume that was a typo for gull wing.

Even so no Tesla vehicle has or will have gull wing doors. If you don't know the difference between gull wing doors and falcon wing doors by now with all the hundreds of articles and videos about the difference I'm not sure it's worth me trying to explain the difference now.

 

[brianman]

I realize it's kind of "out of spirit" with "as the meeting proceeds" to reply after the fact but I'll move forward nonetheless with some notes. I only skimmed the thread so I might have missed some but...

( In no particular order, stream of consciousness: )

What I've seen mentioned
1. Elon was wearing a wedding ring. It was observed by multiple in the audience but no related comments were made at the microphone.
2. Powerwall was improved to deliver 5kW rather than 2kW (I can't recall whether it was the backup 10k or the daily cycler 7k or both).
3. Elon used explicit phrasing "same drivetrain" (not merely "similar") for Model X as the Model S D variants (context was risk mitigation for X).
4. Mountain View superchargers (at the museum where the meeting was) have newer thinner, liquid cooled cables from the pedestals (thickness and flexibility much like UMC).
5. Deepak Ahuja retiring, will remain until and to assist in finding a replacement. The front row of the left of the room gave him a standing ovation (the board?).
6. The "vegan interior" folks were (IMO) disproportionately consuming of shareholder time at the meeting. Their presence and ideas were welcome and appropriate, but "broken record losing its audience by badgering" comes to mind. [Speaking for myself, I got distracted during this time by repeatedly counting the number of wifi access points in the room: 7.]
7. Model S leading its car segment in Q1 (TEG posted a picture of the chart) in units sold.

What I haven't seen mentioned but observed at the meeting
8. Model 3 base model will be RWD, but AWD versions will be offered (and the context was "at initial rollout" not "some time later")
9. In response to "gigafactory as a product" question, Elon didn't directly answer whether Tesla would sell factories as products. He bent the question toward the larger issue of getting GF1 "right" before building GF2, GF3, etc. much less selling them. He then paused to reflect and noted explicitly that the site decision and early planning for GF2 would definitely need to be underway before GF1 was done -- i.e. there's overlap on the timelines between GF1 and GF2 but GF1 gets the focus to make sure it's "right".
10. (IIRC) Elon indicate he didn't like the phrasing and reaction in the media w/r/t Solar City and the powerwall offerings.
11. (I forget the exact phrasing but something about...) Customers with existing solar systems "just needing to add battery backup" would be prioritized earlier than those building a whole system (battery + solar).
12. Suppliers/vendors/installers with "a better deal" (fewer additional costs, etc.) for customers would be prioritized earlier for receiving powerwall product.

I'm sure I'll remember more later, but that's all I have for now.

Random observation: The lunch afterwards was a lot of fun. Thanks @lorih for organizing it.

 

[austinEV]

Well - existing owners MUST get a free account that never expires. That's been promised countless times by every official channel possible. I think it's a moot point anyhow as Tesla has no intention of changing this, they will just keep building stations until congestion isn't an issue. I'm okay with that model, too.

Grandfathering in old cars would probably work, although I don't love that answer for the same reasons I don't think it is the best going forward either. That would do nothing to prevent the existing headaches that are coming to light, just make it so they don't get worse in the future. I will be right if we increasingly get into fights about superchargers in the Tesla driving community, or if we find out that using our cars for solar/powerwall/Vehicle-to-grid is technically possible but disabled to prevent people from supercharging and running their homes off of Tesla supplied energy.

 

[Matias]

gulf wing? I assume that was a typo for gull wing.

Even so no Tesla vehicle has or will have gull wing doors. If you don't know the difference between gull wing doors and falcon wing doors by now with all the hundreds of articles and videos about the difference I'm not sure it's worth me trying to explain the difference now.

Sorry about the typo. English is not my first language. Wikipedia lists model X as having gull wing doors.

Gull-wing door - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"
The second-row doors "are like gull-wing doors, but we call them 'falcon-wing' doors," Musk said at the unveiling. "

Source

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/article/Tesla-unveils-gull-wing-electric-SUV-Model-X-3263048.php

 

[brianman]

gulf wing? I assume that was a typo for gull wing.

Even so no Tesla vehicle has or will have gull wing doors. If you don't know the difference between gull wing doors and falcon wing doors by now with all the hundreds of articles and videos about the difference I'm not sure it's worth me trying to explain the difference now.

Sorry about the typo. English is not my first language. Wikipedia lists model X as having gull wing doors.

Gull-wing door - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@dhanson865 - Play nice, please.
@Matias
Falcon wing are double-hinged. More details...

Tesla Model X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Model X features rear articulated (hinged) gull-wing doors marketed as falcon doors.[14] The doors open upward allowing the leading edge of the door to remain tucked close to the car. Tesla's website says the falcon-wing doors will make passenger egress easier.

14 - Tesla unveils gull-wing electric SUV: Model X. San Francisco Chronicle, May 7, 2013. The second-row doors "are like gull-wing doors, but we call them 'falcon-wing' doors," Musk said at the unveiling.

Model X | Tesla Motors

Brilliantly functional Falcon Wing rear doors fold up and out of the way to allow easy access to third row seats.

In various venues, when Elon has discussed the doors the focus has been on the different between a wide arc (gullwing in Delorean) vs. (my words "oval articulation" such that the doors don't extend horizontally very far. This makes them "more compatible" with normal parking spots occupied by other vehicles.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nubo]

I'm quite glad he made that statement. There have been quite a few debates on these forums (and the Tesla one) about whether or not Tesla allowed or tolerated local Supercharging. Apparently the answer is NO.

I guess it depends on your definition of "allow" and "tolerate".
Musk mentioned sending "reminders", but there wasn't anything to indicate that Tesla have been (or would be) taking any action to prevent or penalize. Seems to me they are both allowing and tolerating.

I still think it's bad form to call out owners who have paid you $100K+ and took you at your word (re: free forever). No good will come of it. Horrible, horrible PR, and I'm surprised the anti-EV blogosphere hasn't already erupted.

But I've probably gone on too long about this by now.

 

[bonnie]

I still think it's bad form to call out owners who have paid you $100K+ and took you at your word (re: free forever). No good will come of it. Horrible, horrible PR, and I'm surprised the anti-EV blogosphere hasn't already erupted.

Well, if you want to take Elon @ his word, it's always been 'for long-distance travel'. ... Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S. - Page 28

 

[Matias]

@dhanson865 - Play nice, please.
@Matias
Falcon wing are double-hinged. More details...

Tesla Model X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Model X | Tesla Motors


In various venues, when Elon has discussed the doors the focus has been on the different between a wide arc (gullwing in Delorean) vs. (my words "oval articulation" such that the doors don't extend horizontally very far. This makes them "more compatible" with normal parking spots occupied by other vehicles.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. But I guess designing these falcon-wing doors is even more difficult and my original point was, that there must be a reason gull wings (or falcon wings) are so rare and I believe the reason is that they are difficult to design to be problem free.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

Well, if you want to take Elon @ his word, it's always been 'for long-distance travel'. ... Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S. - Page 28

I agree 100%. Superchargers are free for travel. They are not advertising "never pay for electricity" or anything like that.

 

[brianman]

Thank you. But I guess designing these falcon-wing doors is even more difficult and my original point was, that there must be a reason gull wings (or falcon wings) are so rare and I believe the reason is that they are difficult to design to be problem free.

You could use that same argument for "why aren't there awesome, industry shaking EV automotives" before Tesla came along.

 

[1208]

I'm not talking about cow farts. Living in the heart of cattle country, I'm fully aware of what it takes to get a pound of meat to market. The hay doesn't mow itself, the fertilizers don't fall out of the sky. Pound for pound, beef is probably the most costly form of protein around from every perspective I can think of ... energy, water, dollars...

And if we were to talk about cow farts, methane is 20 or 25 times more problematic as a GHG than an equivalent weight of CO2. Some suggest far higher than that. Carbon Cycle or not (and I say 'not', because methane isn't typically considered in a simplistic carbon cycle), high intensity beef production is a costly venture. It's not a 'wrong issue'... it's 'an issue', among many. All are important to understand. Completely, not simplistically.

There are plenty of publications available via the United Nations FAO relating to various forms of agriculture and their climate change effects that are worth reading.

Precisely, its not about farts its about resources, I thought everyone knew that, its basic science.:smile:

Plus, rainforests are being destroyed for raising cattle.

 

[electracity]

Is this a bad time to request a bacon-themed interior?

 

[InternetDude]

PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals

 

[RobStark]

Thank you. But I guess designing these falcon-wing doors is even more difficult and my original point was, that there must be a reason gull wings (or falcon wings) are so rare and I believe the reason is that they are difficult to design to be problem free.

Falcon wing doors are as rare as Model X.

There are none on the road because no one makes them.

Tesla will be the first. First long range BEV, first flush door handles that glide out to meet you, first....

 

[chickensevil]

Because I hadn't seen anyone refute it... The statements that Elon's 3-4 month comment means there has been another delay is factually wrong at face value and you are reading too much into it. Even just taking simple math, 1 month would be July 9th (technically one day prior or you have stated into the second month but whatever...), 2 months would be August 9th, three months would be Sept9th and 4 months would be Oct 9th. If your target date was Sept 30th (not saying it is, but let's go with it) then it isn't accurate to say 3 months or 4 months... Technically it is closer to 3.5months... But did you really want Elon to say in 3.5 months we will release the model x? I don't, because they don't have a fixed date yet... And people would have tried counting EXACTLY 3.5 months and suggesting it would release on like Sept 20th or something... So to give yourself a window that encompasses most all of Sept saying 3-4 months is the best way. Yes, it includes 9 days into Q4, but the slide behind him and it was said elsewhere in the meeting having stated "end of Q3" I think you can put two and two together to target a release date between Sept 9 and Sept 30. This doesn't indicate further delay and just continues with their guidance they had previously given. Please stop twisting words on this as thus is the same thing people tried to do with the comment a month back regarding 50k deliveries which was explicitly talking Model S and didn't include the whole picture.

 

[Fiver]

Because I hadn't seen anyone refute it... The statements that Elon's 3-4 month comment means there has been another delay is factually wrong at face value and you are reading too much into it. Even just taking simple math, 1 month would be July 9th (technically one day prior or you have stated into the second month but whatever...), 2 months would be August 9th, three months would be Sept9th and 4 months would be Oct 9th. If your target date was Sept 30th (not saying it is, but let's go with it) then it isn't accurate to say 3 months or 4 months... Technically it is closer to 3.5months... But did you really want Elon to say in 3.5 months we will release the model x? I don't, because they don't have a fixed date yet... And people would have tried counting EXACTLY 3.5 months and suggesting it would release on like Sept 20th or something... So to give yourself a window that encompasses most all of Sept saying 3-4 months is the best way. Yes, it includes 9 days into Q4, but the slide behind him and it was said elsewhere in the meeting having stated "end of Q3" I think you can put two and two together to target a release date between Sept 9 and Sept 30. This doesn't indicate further delay and just continues with their guidance they had previously given. Please stop twisting words on this as thus is the same thing people tried to do with the comment a month back regarding 50k deliveries which was explicitly talking Model S and didn't include the whole picture.

Say what you want about dates, but I will be amazed if anything but maybe 100 initial cars ship before late Nov, and no volume numbers until late Dec. Expect design studio to be late July, probably slip to late Aug. As usual I'd be very happy to be wrong, but we are dealing with Tesla here... Regardless I don't expect them to reach production parity (if you count what we have now with MS build lead time as parity) until 2017.