Battery Warming from Pete's Thread

tstafford · Aug 23, 2015

So . . . .now we have some good info thanks to Pete and his birthday present. (I didn't want to hijack his thread so I'm posting my question here). How worried are the P85D owners that the battery warming aspect of ludicrous mode won't transfer over with the upgrade? I went ahead with my in-process P85D order based in large part on the promise of the upgrade. (Could have cancelled and lost the $2500).

Thoughts?

Pete90D · Aug 23, 2015

tstafford said:
So . . . .now we have some good info thanks to Pete and his birthday present. (I didn't want to hijack his thread so I'm posting my question here). How worried are the P85D owners that the battery warming aspect of ludicrous mode won't transfer over with the upgrade? I went ahead with my in-process P85D order based in large part on the promise of the upgrade. (Could have cancelled and lost the $2500).

Thoughts?

I will share something I learned today. The labor on the P85D upgrade is probably going to be expensive. I heard something about 4 techs and many hours of work to do the upgrade. Of course, it wasn't from a tech so I can't confirm anything, but if it is that intensive I would hope you'd be getting everything.

I'll go out and see if I can get it to make the sound and record it if anyone is interested in it.

Edit: I'll have to do it tomorrow morning, it's still "Ready"

andrewket · Aug 23, 2015

tstafford said:
So . . . .now we have some good info thanks to Pete and his birthday present. (I didn't want to hijack his thread so I'm posting my question here). How worried are the P85D owners that the battery warming aspect of ludicrous mode won't transfer over with the upgrade? I went ahead with my in-process P85D order based in large part on the promise of the upgrade. (Could have cancelled and lost the $2500).

Thoughts?

Somewhat orthogonal, but you wouldn't have lost your 2500. I'm sure Tesla would have allowed you to apply it to a new P90D.

As far as the temp settings are concerned, my guess it's just a set point in the software. It will allow the battery to reach warmer temperatures before the cooling systems kick in. This of course has other trade offs.

tstafford · Aug 23, 2015

andrewket said:
Somewhat orthogonal, but you wouldn't have lost your 2500. I'm sure Tesla would have allowed you to apply it to a new P90D.

As far as the temp settings are concerned, my guess it's just a set point in the software. It will allow the battery to reach warmer temperatures before the cooking systems kick in. This of course has other trade offs.

Oh I'm not upset. I was just explaining the context of my question. I'm perfectly happy. Honestly the upgrade seemed really important to me before the car was delivered. I'm less concerned about it now. But that's a side note. I was more interested to see how people felt about the new information. FWIW - Tesla was very clear that I'd lose the $2500. That was not even a discussion. Therefore at the current estimates on what the upgrade might cost, the clear choice was to proceed with my order. Again which I love.

WestCoastP85D · Aug 23, 2015

Hmm...not that it is a concern, but my spider-senses tingle when you have to start heating the battery for maximum performance. I would prefer Luda just be an all-the-time as-needed solution. I don't like the disclaimer that you lose top-end by "preparing the battery".

Of course, I am not an EE. And I haven't seen or driven a P90DL.

Like many, I am a recent P85D owner who intended to upgrade.....

Pete90D · Aug 23, 2015

I just took someone for a ride after charging and it took a long time for it to be "Ready". Probably 10 miles of driving or so. Once it was ready, it has stayed ready even charging again.

stopcrazypp · Aug 23, 2015

andrewket said:
Somewhat orthogonal, but you wouldn't have lost your 2500. I'm sure Tesla would have allowed you to apply it to a new P90D.

As far as the temp settings are concerned, my guess it's just a set point in the software. It will allow the battery to reach warmer temperatures before the cooking systems kick in. This of course has other trade offs.

Theoretically that's true, but in another thread someone else speculated that given the cell chemistry is different for the 90kWh pack, it may not simply just be a software thing.

gg_got_a_tesla · Aug 23, 2015

Is Luda Battery Warming the rough equivalent of an ICE's launch control?

Saghost · Aug 23, 2015

gg_got_a_tesla said:
Is Luda Battery Warming the rough equivalent of an ICE's launch control?

I'd think a closer analogy would be a chip program that raises the boost on a turbo car.

andrewket · Aug 23, 2015

stopcrazypp said:
Theoretically that's true, but in another thread someone else speculated that given the cell chemistry is different for the 90kWh pack, it may not simply just be a software thing.

Again, an educated guess, I could be completely wrong: i think we have two different concepts at play. It's possible the internal resistance of the new cells is lower, maintaining a higher voltage at max draw. Separately, the BMS could allow the pack to reach warmer temperatures which also changes the impedance. The latter I believe would just be a set point (software) change, and would apply to the P85DL.

stopcrazypp · Aug 23, 2015

andrewket said:
Again, an educated guess, I could be completely wrong: i think we have two different concepts at play. It's possible the internal resistance of the new cells is lower, maintaining a higher voltage at max draw. Separately, the BMS could allow the pack to reach warmer temperatures which also changes the impedance. The latter I believe would just be a set point (software) change, and would apply to the P85DL.

That's certainly possible, but if the existing chemistry also responds similarly, this is a mode that they can apply to the existing P85D (without Ludicrous) in order to boost pack voltage and thus power. So the question is why they didn't do that before in that case.

treymc7 · Aug 24, 2015

stopcrazypp said:
That's certainly possible, but if the existing chemistry also responds similarly, this is a mode that they can apply to the existing P85D (without Ludicrous) in order to boost pack voltage and thus power. So the question is why they didn't do that before in that case.

The P85D (without Ludicrous) does not have the upgraded fuse and contactor material. The car is not going to be able to pull the higher amperage that the P90D (with Ludicrous) is going to be doing, therefore it is not needed to raise the capability of the battery.
I fly multirotor copters (Drones) and the lithium batteries do not like being cold. If it is cool outside, we will warm the batteries prior to flight to gain the lifting power needed.
Trey

stopcrazypp · Aug 24, 2015

treymc7 said:
The P85D (without Ludicrous) does not have the upgraded fuse and contactor material. The car is not going to be able to pull the higher amperage that the P90D (with Ludicrous) is going to be doing, therefore it is not needed to raise the capability of the battery.
I fly multirotor copters (Drones) and the lithium batteries do not like being cold. If it is cool outside, we will warm the batteries prior to flight to gain the lifting power needed.
Trey

The P85D (without Ludicrous) is still pulling a lot of current (a bit less than 1300A vs 1500A for Ludicrous) and would benefit in the same way from the higher voltage as the P90D does, assuming that the battery chemistry response similarly to temperature.

Matias · Aug 24, 2015

There's another thread about this

Max Battery Power setting in P90DL

AWDtsla · Aug 24, 2015

gg_got_a_tesla said:
Is Luda Battery Warming the rough equivalent of an ICE's launch control?

It's more equivalent to dropping the outside air temperature by 40F in an ICE.

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Battery Warming from Pete's Thread

tstafford

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Pete90D

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andrewket

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tstafford

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WestCoastP85D

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Pete90D

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stopcrazypp

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gg_got_a_tesla

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Saghost

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andrewket

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stopcrazypp

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stopcrazypp

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Matias

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