Sound changes

21" wheels are louder than 19" - quite noticeably so (at least to me).
Having owned a VIN11k (built April '13) and now a VIN74k (built February '15) I'd say the build quality has improved quite a bit and the new car is a lot quieter (both on 19" wheels) - except for the annoying whine from the front motor.
Don't get me wrong, the '13 Model S are amazing cars. The '15 are just better

dirkhh said:

21" wheels are louder than 19" - quite noticeably so (at least to me).
Having owned a VIN11k (built April '13) and now a VIN74k (built February '15) I'd say the build quality has improved quite a bit and the new car is a lot quieter (both on 19" wheels) - except for the annoying whine from the front motor.
Don't get me wrong, the '13 Model S are amazing cars. The '15 are just better

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Unless the 21"s have the new foam-lined quiet Continentals, then others have commented they're pretty similar to or quieter than the 19"s. A 2013 wouldn't have them unless the tires were recently replaced, though given their lifespan that's a real possibility.

I got a loaner 2015 recently with 21"s that I thought was substantially quieter than my 2013 with 19"s. I asked the SC about it and they bluntly stated there have been no changes made to reduce cockpit noise. Seems pretty unlikely given my experience, but that's what they claimed. As usual with Tesla, the chance of that being accurate is only slightly better than 50/50.

I picked up a inventory p85 a month ago for that 80-85k price range(when tax credit is included). It had 3k miles and a $15k deduction. It has almost all the latest including auto pilot sensors and full warrantee. You might want to check inventory cars and also factor in the tax credit!

irvineboy said:

I am looking at used 2013 model S p85. you can get some decent ones around $80-85k. Thats a $30-40k price drop in 2 years!
However, my friend was telling me the 2013 is loud inside and the 2014 is better since they sound proofed the car more. 2015 is even better.
I haven't noticed the difference. All the p85 I am looking at have the 21" turbine wheels. Comments?

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If what you are seeing is prices in the $80-$85K range you are not looking hard enough. There are plenty of P85s for sale around the mid 70s and some are even coming down to the mid 60s. Don't overpay for your car. IMHO anything over the mid 70s is too much to pay for a 2013 P85.

I concur with the advice given in that with 19" wheels I doubt you'd notice much difference with noise. The one thing I do recommend you get if your car does not have it is the rear parcel shelf as that is known to aid reduce noise from the rear motor.

Here's a P85 for just around $65K:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/45874-2013-Tesla-Model-S-P85

MsElectric said:

If what you are seeing is prices in the $80-$85K range you are not looking hard enough. There are plenty of P85s for sale around the mid 70s and some are even coming down to the mid 60s. Don't overpay for your car. IMHO anything over the mid 70s is too much to pay for a 2013 P85.

I concur with the advice given in that with 19" wheels I doubt you'd notice much difference with noise. The one thing I do recommend you get if your car does not have it is the rear parcel shelf as that is known to aid reduce noise from the rear motor.

Here's a P85 for just around $65K:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/45874-2013-Tesla-Model-S-P85

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What you say may be true, but that one's so cheap because it has a ton of miles for a 2013; over double the nationwide average for a 2 year old car. Being VIN 2xxxx, it's likely even worse given that means it was build in late Q3 or Q4, so it's not even 2 years old.

$65k for a P85 is crazy talk. It's too bad some owners are so willing to give their cars away. Deep pockets must not care much for resale value.

Gizmotoy said:

What you say may be true, but that one's so cheap because it has a ton of miles for a 2013; over double the nationwide average for a 2 year old car. Being VIN 2xxxx, it's likely even worse given that means it was build in late Q3 or Q4, so it's not even 2 years old.

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I believe the VIN is in the 2,000 range, not 20,000... Which makes this car 2.5 years old. My 2-year old car has 44k miles...

ken830 said:

I believe the VIN is in the 2,000 range, not 20,000... Which makes this car 2.5 years old. My 2-year old car has 44k miles...

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As a 2013 it couldn't possibly be 2.5 years old, but you're right, I misread the VIN. It's definitely early 2013. Even if we assume 2.5 years, that's still over 60% more miles than the average 2.5 year old car should have. Not a good indicator of resale values. Your car, with as many miles as the average 3yr 8mo old car, wouldn't be a good indicator of general resale value, either.

irvineboy said:

Where are you seeing P85 for $70k?
The one I am looking at is a P85+ with 9k miles. MSRP is $126k and they want about $80k. Vin is 17xxx Is that newer 2013 or older 2013 (does it matter?)

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17K would make it a post-mid-2013 (5K is early 2013).

irvineboy said:

Where are you seeing P85 for $70k?
The one I am looking at is a P85+ with 9k miles. MSRP is $126k and they want about $80k. Vin is 17xxx Is that newer 2013 or older 2013 (does it matter?)

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Did you not click on the link in the text I wrote that you actually quoted?

The link I gave you was for a 2013 P85 selling for about $66K but there are many that come on the market for the mid 70s so if I were you I definitely would not pay over $75K for one. T

The 85D has further diminished the value of P85s as the newer models now have both AWD, Autopilot, along with dozens of other improvements. A nicely loaded 85D can be had brand new for right around $100K. If you time it right you can get one with about $10K worth of inventory discounts and when you combine that with tax rebates, based on where you live you can get another $10K off. So basically you can buy an essentially brand new 2015 85D with all the latest enhancements for right around $80-85K and still get 0-60 in the low 4s range. Given this fact personally I would not buy a P85 for more than $65K as that would essentially be $20K less for a two year old car when compared to an inventory 85D that is eligible for the tax rebates. If I'm going to pay $75K for a P85, I might as well pay another $10K and get an 85D with almost the same performance and a whole bunch of other enhancements and features...

And here are some recent P85 sales in the low to mid 70s:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-Model...tr=true&hash=item3cf5a2b347&item=261819118407

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-Model...c4ccbace7&item=121547500775&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-Model...e99f43ee1&item=131431939809&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-Model...39ec6158e&item=221707113870&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

At this rate our cars will be worth a negative number in five years and we'll have to pay someone to take the cars off our hands.

Keep in mind those early p85s have A rev battery packs. Worth the extra to pay for low miles with waranty and B or later battery.

AmpedRealtor said:

At this rate our cars will be worth a negative number in five years and we'll have to pay someone to take the cars off our hands.

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I know you are passionate about Tesla and so am I and from your comments I gather that you had expected the Model S to hold its resale value substantially better than other cars. I'm not sure what the basis for that is but as we can see from recent actual sales, the Model S is depreciating like any other car, because the Model S is a car. It is testament to Tesla engineering and the fact that they build a quality product that the Model S values are holding so well so I would not be quite so down about what is happening.

The Model S is holding it's value better than a Mercedes S class and I'm not sure how you could be too upset about that. Going forward I still expect Model S values to be on par or slightly higher than the resale value of an S class so a 5 year old Model S that initially cost about $100K will be worth about $35-40K. I'm not sure how anyone can be surprised by this as premium cars will always be subject to steep depreciation as the new vehicles keep getting better.

In the future for the Model S we'll likely see larger battery capacities, even better performance, possibly a more luxurious interior, better auto pilot with aft and side radar, and who knows maybe they might even offer silver again as an exterior color choice Most of these enhancements will have an effect on the value of older cars. With premium cars you always pay to play to have the latest and the greatest before anyone else and that cost is steep starting with about a 25-30% depreciation hit in just the first year.

MsElectric said:

I know you are passionate about Tesla and so am I and from your comments I gather that you had expected the Model S to hold its resale value substantially better than other cars. I'm not sure what the basis for that is but as we can see from recent actual sales, the Model S is depreciating like any other car, because the Model S is a car. It is testament to Tesla engineering and the fact that they build a quality product that the Model S values are holding so well so I would not be quite so down about what is happening.

The Model S is holding it's value better than a Mercedes S class and I'm not sure how you could be too upset about that. Going forward I still expect Model S values to be on par or slightly higher than the resale value of an S class so a 5 year old Model S that initially cost about $100K will be worth about $35-40K. I'm not sure how anyone can be surprised by this as premium cars will always be subject to steep depreciation as the new vehicles keep getting better.

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And right now there is a glut of used Model S on the market because of the D models causing folks to trade up, so the price is artificially low.

jerry33 said:

And right now there is a glut of used Model S on the market because of the D models causing folks to trade up, so the price is artificially low.

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Until Tesla enhances their Autopilot sensors with additional radar coverage and possibly increases the battery capacity to deliver more range. We all know these and other improvements are just a matter of time and when that happens the cycle will continue. Every year Tesla will make their models better and give more reasons for those who want the best the opportunity to upgrade their car. Happened with the P85D and will happen again with the P1xxD. I think the 70D is a sign of things to come with better optioned models being offered at very attractive prices to get more people to switch over and at the end of the day it is about increasing how compelling it is for people to go all electric -- and this is a good thing!

Also don't forget the likely thousands of Model S vehicle that Tesla is sitting on with their CPO inventory and at some point those have to come out also.

As I've said along look up the value of a used S class and you can expect a Model S to retain its value slightly better but not by a huge margin.