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Tesla FSD V12 vs Mercedes Driver Assist Video by Whole Mars Catalog on YouTube.com
- Thread starter borland
- Start date
E90alex
Active Member
That’s not a thing anymore with current day systems with active lane centering/lane tracing.
Ping ponging was on older systems that just had lane departure assist.
What I see is a comparison of MB's lane-keeping assist & cruise control vs Tesla's FSD. That is not a fair comparison. They should have used Tesla AP for this. They also should not have been using driver assistance features on roads where the user manuals explicitly say not to use them. The whole video is a waste of time and electrons.
I don't care about the video. The fact remains Drive Pilot has extreme limitations in how it can be used that were verified in the Car and Driver review that was linked earlier. See post #29. I'm trying to understand why someone would prefer Drive Pilot with a subscription cost of $2,400/year, and with all these limitations to the functionality of FSD?
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-review/
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
This technically describes Level 4 as well. The distinction between them is that an L3 system may request on very short notice that the driver take control, even while the car is in motion, and even within its ODD (the “specific conditions”), whereas an L4 system must be able to at least pull over and stop safely EVERY time without requiring driver input (this should happen extremely rarely within the ODD), and should never require human assistance within its ODD.
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Most of their driving is during the day on Los Angeles interstates (where speed is very often under 40 mph).
Or they want an L2 system with a top speed of 130mph.
Most likely though they just want a Mercedes instead of a Tesla.
E90alex
Active Member
Even with the ODD limitations, the fact remains it’s a Level 3 autonomous driving system that does not require attention when conditions are met. Meaning people can LEGALLY scroll on their phones or watch a movie or reply to emails etc. They can gain back most of the time lost in a rush hour commute.
Sure you can argue FSD can do more in a wider range of conditions. But it does not allow you to legally not pay attention. No covering up cabin cameras. No cheat devices. Cops can’t ticket you. If the car crashes while under L3 Mercedes has to take liability. Is Tesla taking any liability for autopilot or FSD crashes?
How much is not having to pay attention worth to you? That’s something only you can answer and everyone will have a different one.
Why would one pay $1200 a year for FSD that you have to “supervise” like a nervous teenage driver? Not too long ago it was at the same $2400 yearly price point you’re balking at.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Very interesting MB was rated much better than Tesla. There were 40 interventions with the MB and zero with the Tesla on the same exact drive. Also interesting is the driver didn't listen to the passenger and bottomed out the MB on a dip in the road.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of people subscribe to the service and what percentage of their time in rush hour traffic actually results in legally scrolling on their phones etc.? If Tesla wanted to provide the same capability on the highway with far less restrictions they certainly could.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
That's the million dollar question. Tesla's highway performance has easily been good enough to do what MB is doing for several years. No one knows if it's a liability question, other legal/regulatory, Tesla (or Elon's) insistence that they get everything done first or something else.
I agree with you - level 3 on the highway, even in a limited capacity such as MB has would be a huge selling point and would likely drive a ton of subscriptions. For me, I enjoy using FSD around town, particularly with 12.3.6 since it's gotten so good for me but the monotonous highway driving is where I really appreciate it. Having the ability to read a book or do something else while driving on the interstate would be huge.
E90alex
Active Member
The answer is they don’t want to be held legally responsible for what the system does and be liable for damages. By saying it’s L2 only they absolve themselves of responsibility and put the blame purely on the driver for not paying attention.
Or they don’t believe the system is good enough to use without attention.
Has FSD acutally been that good on the highway? Until recently (before v12), phantom braking was a huge problem. Currently on "v12 highways" you have the ridiculous lane wobble issue. Even on v11 highways, I had to disengage recently because it was driving straight into a concrete median while turning through an exit ramp. And on the same trip had to disengage because it did not realize traffic was coming to a stop further ahead in its lane because the stopped traffic in the adjacent lane was blocking its visibility. To be fair, the latter issue arose in part due to the curvature of the road, and perhaps this is why the current highway L3 systems disengage on sharply curving roads.
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I've been pushing L3 for a long time with phase 1 implemented for controlled access highways. Until recently the response was mostly negative or silence. However I think the negativity is beginning to change as more and more people bring L3 up. Especially after seeing how limited Mercedes Drive Pilot is. At least I hope so.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Merc can limit their liability by selling very few cars with the capability - not something Tesla can.
Honda also did this briefly in Japan (and even when demoing it almost hit another car).
Personally I'd not trust Merc to not hit anything irrespective of them taking liability. They may not care about a few million - but I do care about my life
That is exactly what they are relying upon to happen. But keep in mind, the new gen is not like that. They will be on their phones, get into an accident, and then just get out and post on IG, and TikTok, and then keep watching IG and TikTok while waiting for the tow truck.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Well, if they are lucky.
Otherwise, they will be in IC and the government would have banned TikTok.
Not a priority until they replace the single highway stack which will be in V12.5. Maybe then. Even now FSD on the highway appears to be more capable than Drive Pilot. The only thing needed is a graceful handoff when the driver has to take over. I definitely agree with you that it's worth more to most drivers then city/streets FSD. Especially as an initial phase.
Will be interesting to see what happens on 8/8 and the following month or two after 8/8. It will be a fun watch.
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