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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
the legacy automakers had their chance. they blew it. they blew it in the name of shareholders, quarterlies and 10k’s, big oil pressure (literally), dividends, short-sided boards, and golden parachutes.
all this talk about the mission and what’s best, blah blah. i get it. but...
screw them. all they are doing is biding their time and trying to wait for the others to die...they are in defense mode.
tesla is on the offensive. they’ve been on the offensive for 10+ years.
nobody else is.
i don’t give a damn who disagrees with me. and i don’t care if every automaker goes bust and suffering ensues. look at history. it’s sad. it’s painful. thats what sparks change.
they aren’t doing anyone any favors until they get serious. and none of them has the wherewith-all, the leverage over its board and shareholders, or the balls, to make a serious move, yet.
so no, not “hey, good for ford”.
let them implode.
tonight was just another charade, like the rest of them.
if that’s serious, then what is tesla?
on the one hand you think these dinosaurs get it. but do they? or is it just that they are victims of their own circumstance? they’re only able to roll out token gestures, trying to be part of the conversation. i’m supposed to believe that a combined couple 1000+ years of ingenuity amongst the top automakers is only able to yield the few scattered competitive products to tesla thus far? and that’s their best shot? if they were serious, and capable of executing a product roadmap without blowback, they’d be doing it.
if tonight is any indication, they continue to prove they’re toast.
i haven’t been in the “as long as there’s more ev’s, the better camp” in a while. and yes, i know the mission.
i don’t care anymore. i want tesla to win. i want them to...dominate. screw everyone else. they had their chance 40 years ago and they let us all down. now look at us. we’re the toast.
all this talk about the mission and what’s best, blah blah. i get it. but...
screw them. all they are doing is biding their time and trying to wait for the others to die...they are in defense mode.
tesla is on the offensive. they’ve been on the offensive for 10+ years.
nobody else is.
i don’t give a damn who disagrees with me. and i don’t care if every automaker goes bust and suffering ensues. look at history. it’s sad. it’s painful. thats what sparks change.
they aren’t doing anyone any favors until they get serious. and none of them has the wherewith-all, the leverage over its board and shareholders, or the balls, to make a serious move, yet.
so no, not “hey, good for ford”.
let them implode.
tonight was just another charade, like the rest of them.
if that’s serious, then what is tesla?
on the one hand you think these dinosaurs get it. but do they? or is it just that they are victims of their own circumstance? they’re only able to roll out token gestures, trying to be part of the conversation. i’m supposed to believe that a combined couple 1000+ years of ingenuity amongst the top automakers is only able to yield the few scattered competitive products to tesla thus far? and that’s their best shot? if they were serious, and capable of executing a product roadmap without blowback, they’d be doing it.
if tonight is any indication, they continue to prove they’re toast.
i haven’t been in the “as long as there’s more ev’s, the better camp” in a while. and yes, i know the mission.
i don’t care anymore. i want tesla to win. i want them to...dominate. screw everyone else. they had their chance 40 years ago and they let us all down. now look at us. we’re the toast.
I thought it was supposed to be marriage?
Unfortunately this shows you only have a surface knowledge of the topic. A battery pack is a system that’s safety and density characteristics are only partially defined by the chemistry. The packaging (including but not limited to the choice of cell housing) can make a NCA cell safer then a NMC cell packaged in a different manner.
In the end, real world statistics show Tesla is literally the safest sedan on the road , validating Tesla’s choices.
After watching today's event, I now realize that Tesla led by Elon really gives other auto maker no room to differentiate themselves, and will continue to pioneer everything while the rest copies from years behind.
Apple was a money milking machine. They developed what worked and sat on it for years milking the public. This gave other companies like Samsung or Huawei plenty of room to innovate to the point that Apple had to play catch up from simple copy and paste functions, to larger screens with multi-cameras.
Tesla on the other hand leaves zero room for others to innovate. Elon constantly just grant his twitter followers whatever good idea they come up with. Bet you can't do that with Ford or anyone else for that matters. You have a CEO who is determined to make your car the "most fun product you can buy". If there's a better way to do something, Elon would have done it yesterday. He will give you things you didn't even think you needed..in fact most complaints from every update are items people think are useless at first, but ends up can't live without.
Today was the first time ever I used regular summon out of my garage because I was carrying a baby in one hand and couldn't get him into our other car because the Tesla was parked too close. Just another feature I didn't think I ever needed until I needed it.
So I wish other company's luck. I am willing to bet every future revealing from any manufactures will seem like a Tesla knock-off. But they have to copy Tesla, or else people will complain "but it doesn't have this which a Tesla has". Sucks when you have old boomers as your boss and will take months just to get any new features approved. The alternative is just Elon tweeting back "okay".
Apple was a money milking machine. They developed what worked and sat on it for years milking the public. This gave other companies like Samsung or Huawei plenty of room to innovate to the point that Apple had to play catch up from simple copy and paste functions, to larger screens with multi-cameras.
Tesla on the other hand leaves zero room for others to innovate. Elon constantly just grant his twitter followers whatever good idea they come up with. Bet you can't do that with Ford or anyone else for that matters. You have a CEO who is determined to make your car the "most fun product you can buy". If there's a better way to do something, Elon would have done it yesterday. He will give you things you didn't even think you needed..in fact most complaints from every update are items people think are useless at first, but ends up can't live without.
Today was the first time ever I used regular summon out of my garage because I was carrying a baby in one hand and couldn't get him into our other car because the Tesla was parked too close. Just another feature I didn't think I ever needed until I needed it.
So I wish other company's luck. I am willing to bet every future revealing from any manufactures will seem like a Tesla knock-off. But they have to copy Tesla, or else people will complain "but it doesn't have this which a Tesla has". Sucks when you have old boomers as your boss and will take months just to get any new features approved. The alternative is just Elon tweeting back "okay".
“If you choose not the prepay for your post-rental battery charge, make sure to bring it back with a full battery. Otherwise you’ll be charged $6 per kwh.”
So will rental companies avoid buying Tesla to delay Robotaxi network and their obsolescence? Or will they buy fleets of Model 3s and Ys as a hedge?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
They will ask industry experts who will promptly say Tesla is nowhere close to Robotaxi.
Two things I want Tesla to copy form the Mach-E for the model 3/Y
1), the 2nd display behind the wheel
2) The ability for the Frunk to act as a cooler! That was a neat touch.
With the $7,500 tax credit it looks like a pretty decent EV option.
1), the 2nd display behind the wheel
2) The ability for the Frunk to act as a cooler! That was a neat touch.
With the $7,500 tax credit it looks like a pretty decent EV option.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Most people are afraid of creasing a Tesla hood and/or don't want to fuss about using two palm method of closing the hood. You can slam an F-150 aluminum hood shut.
Someone yelled at Bill Ford if they were going to make an electric 2 door Mustang.
He said "Never say never"
Ford sells ~6M cars per year. IF they sell less than 100k ICE Mustangs per year to old nostalgic dudes and the rest BEVs in the not too distant future I am ok with that.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
At purely the cell level, using generic NMC and NCA cells from some random battery supplier, in a figurative (not literal) vacuum, these points may be valid.
However, everyone else continues to struggle and/or give up developing the necessary surrounding methods and technologies to take advantage of the supposed NMC advantages, piling inefficiency on inefficiency (packaging, thermal, production, materials costs, etc) to come out far behind what Tesla can achieve with the "inferior" NCA batteries. And that is ignoring the advances in chemistry Tesla has achieved, which nullify most of those supposed NMC advantages on their own ...
If you compare the fully integrated Tesla battery system to any other battery system, for essentially any metric nobody surpasses Tesla (or if they do, it comes at a significant cost or compromise - whether it be more expensive subsystems, reduced longevity, etc).
In theory, if Tesla decided to apply everything they know to using NMC cells, they could make a "superior" (based on your claims) battery system, but having already achieved being able to go a million miles with NCA the "longer lasting" is moot, and as for safer, Tesla has thus far shown that engineering can "solve" the thermal runaway issue (even with some older vehicles having had fires they are far slower and less deadly than equivalent ICE fires, with nearly everyone walking away from accidents they shouldn't have in an ICE, so NMC lasting just a few degrees longer before self igniting is moot - in most cases, they would have still burned if they were NMC, and especially comparing prismatic cells to cylindrical the difference in effective cooling might make a NMC prismatic more problematic than NCA cylindrical)
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
"Hey Unsworth, get picking up those nodules."
powertoold
Active Member
Exactly, there's not much more you can do with an EV (without FSD) than the Model 3/Y. Tesla has perfected the EV on their 4th try.
Only thing that can defeat Tesla is a revolutionary new, better, easier-to-mfg, and cheaper battery. Very little likelihood of that happening.
LN1_Casey
Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus
Tesla.com has updated their inventory/used page again. I think it looks crisper, and gives better details on the face of it (such as where the car is located). Still can't search for EAP/FSD anymore, however.
Mike Smith
Active Member
Lol. Note to self: less drinking before posting to TMC.Yeah, and his brother Franz doesn't disappoint either! Here they are together at the recent 'Cybertank' reveal event, with special guest star NFL quarterback Aaron Rodgers:
Cheers!
In light of the recent announcements that the q folks would call Tesla killers, I found some old article online that might be helpful:
Amazon.bomb
Amazon.bomb
Sure, Ford dealers who try to sell the car with enthusiasm, totally unlike Chevy dealers who anti sell the bolt whenever possible
At this point, we can all consider Ford to be full of BS about everything related to the Mach-E. Profitable starting on the first car......with no prior mass production EV pipeline, supply chain and logistics, battery cells and modules....shall I go on? I can't take them even remotely serious after that statement
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and the big disadvantage of prismatic cells is the lack of protection against swelling - which all cell chemistries are exposed to.
Cylindrical cells have strong protection against swelling, in form of a strong metallic, cylindrical casing.
Prismatic and pouch cells, not so much:
Most non-Tesla car manufacturers are using pouch or prismatic cells not because it's superior, but because they don't know how to make battery packs with cylindrical cells economically.
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